Massaging my boss

[TickTock]

I tend to disagree unless she is going to quit. Indirect "softeners" like I can't play poker tonight my wife won't let me. May seem cowardly and somewhat dishonest, yet it makes it much easier on the recipients ego and thus avoids unwanted debate on the issue or overreaction.

I don't think it's so much the dishonesty or the softening tactic which I understand. But my point is to not give him the wrong idea, for him to think she wanted to but her boyfriend got in the way. And that it's important to lay down the boundaries so he knows it's not ok.Thats all an aside though. It's clear he is exploiting his position and that's where he gets his kicks. I'd wonder why the prvious girls no longer work for him.

 

[JivinJeffJones]

Why should she blame her boyfriend? Is this to spare his feelings? To give the impression that if she was single it would be ok? That she isn't strong enough to make her own decisions?

Honestly I don't understand this suggestion nor do I understand why people suggest it's the best way out. There are times to play innocent and suggest someone else is the reason something can't happen but not this, how would that establish boundaries? If he's looking for ways to get her to do something she's not comfortable with knowing she's too insecure in herself to be blunt or worries too much about offending him to say she's uncomfortable means he can figure out how to manipulate her, and rather easily.

Besides, she's already stated there's no issue with telling him she doesn't want to do it without needing an excuse.

I didn't suggest it was the best way out. I suggested it as an easy way out. However, it did seem to me to be a good way to set some crucial boundaries with him in case he is predatory without needlessly offending him if he is not. I based this on the assumption that reforming/educating him was not the priority.

 

[Charmed Justice]

Agreed, I shouldn't put myself in that situation. Simply not worth all of the possible repercussions.

So what is the consensus on still working for him but without any of the massage stuff?

Absolutely. NOT!
The naked massage is just the beginning. Seriously, I can help you find a job.

 

[little.bad.apple]

This sounds sketchy as hell.

edit:

I see the OP made the decision to quit the position. I say good for you. I believe it's the wise thing to do. You never know if something could have happened or not, but why risk it when you don't have to? Also, you were uncomfortable with it from the get go, and there's no good reason to disregard that feeling considering it was a potentially risky situation. Good luck finding new work.

Thank you

having your assistant do it is more convenient if you arent picky about technique (you think when guys get a massage we know about all that fancy hand work? hell, i just think it's relaxing!) and in general this type of confusion is fairly common when people arent entirely honest about their reasons. some people just aint that smart and dont recognize why honesty is the best policy, and not sensitive enough to see why asking her to start that part of the job when she had just met him is way too soon.

i know im going way out on a limb to defend the guy but i just think it was possible he wasnt going to do anything wrong, cant help it! she was slightly uneasy about the situation just tells me it was an uneasy situation, which it was, i dont see anything about the guy acting "off" (of course im sure some sociopaths have good acting skills, which is scary!)

im know im being way too stubborn, so im just gonna shut up about it now

Yeah, this was my perspective as well.

You are absolutely correct with that, it is possible he wasn't going to push it any further, thing is no one but him and maybe his previous PAs know for sure, all anyone else can go off is their knowledge of what is normal and their intuition about the situation, if it wasn't a young female alone, unaware and not a specialist in massage he would get more benefit of the doubt. The potential dangers are too great. This is where I'm coming from v

Exactly, tis the bottom line.

At this point I already determined that you have not an ounce of sense or reasoning, and anything you say henceforth will be ridiculous.

I think you should quit the job and go work as a lobbyist handing out "favors" to politicians instead . You'd make a lot more money, and they'd likely give you gifts too . In fact, I know a man in Orange County named Michael D. Duvall (Assembly
District representative) who could probably give you the hook up.

This attempt at humor just seems like an excuse for name-dropping haha.

Thank you. This isn't difficult to understand. I understood it just by reading the title of the thread.

and for goodness sake.

I mean, i can't believe that you actually have a problem with what's really going on there in the first place. You likely just have a slight bit of guilt because a part of you says you shouldn't be doing that, but overall you don't mind massaging your nude boss even if he's doing it to take advantage of all his female employees. Some part of you likes it/doesn't care, and you're simply denying the extremely overtly obvious facts of the situation.

And no, your bf would NOT like that.

Yes, I like it/don't care.. that's why I'd decided I wouldn't go on with it. Nah, not denying facts, but rather being excessively open-minded, accommodating & idealistic about the situation.

Yes, I acknowledged that my boyfriend would freak out.... You're an INTP.. you shouldn't be stating the obvious

 

[Grayscale]

But...he could pay a masseuse to give him his daily massage. Why wouldn't he want to simply hire a licensed massage therapist, maybe get a cheaper rate since he's a frequent customer? The answer seems fairly obvious to me.

someone I know brought up something obvious when I mentioned this to them... this guy is probably not a pervert, he's just cheap (eg, why have a professional masseuse come in at $50+/hr when your employee can do it for $15/hr)--although an unappealing that is not so morally wrong. also, even if the chances of him being a sex offender in the making are slim, it is entirely likely that she could face legal implications if she were to injure him due to lack of proper training. that on the other hand makes opting out as she did a reasonable choice imo.

 

[Tallulah]

someone I know brought up something obvious when I mentioned this to them... this guy is probably not a pervert, he's just cheap (eg, why have a professional masseuse come in at $50+/hr when your employee can do it for $15/hr)--although an unappealing that is not so morally wrong. also, even if the chances of him being a sex offender in the making are slim, it is entirely likely that she could face legal implications if she were to injure him due to lack of proper training. that on the other hand makes opting out as she did a reasonable choice imo.

I thought of that, too--it IS possible he could be just cheap. But it seems if he were just cheap and needed massage on his leg, that perhaps he'd just have her massage the leg, with him wearing a pair of shorts or something.

If he's just doing it to be cheap, though, he's not very smart--if she (or anyone else) sued him for sexual harrassment, he could be paying a lot more in the long run. I would think that appearing naked in front of your assistant and asking her to massage you would be a pretty solid case for sexual harrassment, no matter what his actual intentions were.

 

[Laurie]

Didn't she says its a massage normally done in the nude? Not that he was nude?

 

[Randomnity]

That's beyond sketchy. It doesn't matter whether the boss's intentions are innocent or not, it's not an appropriate request for any employee not in a massage career. He may be stupid/naive enough to not realize that, but that doesn't mean he should be indulged...

And having it done with you two alone in some rented room? Way more sketchy...I can't believe anyone would consider that to be acceptable. You can still be open-minded without accepting every behaviour...

 

[Spamtar]

I don't think it's so much the dishonesty or the softening tactic which I understand. But my point is to not give him the wrong idea, for him to think she wanted to but her boyfriend got in the way. And that it's important to lay down the boundaries so he knows it's not ok.Thats all an aside though. It's clear he is exploiting his position and that's where he gets his kicks. I'd wonder why the prvious girls no longer work for him.

Yours is a very good point, its tough to completely address this without being there in the room with the game playing predator. One thing appears sure, he won't play fair.

Assume there are games and games within games being played. In my style I like to start with an indirect method and softener to calibrate the intensity of the situtation/adversary. Often this does the job.
If not then use a more direct approach if they are not getting the hint...also body language should come into play. Kinda like boxing where the "softener" is the jab and the absolutly direct is an upper cut.

Direct communication is often like salt added to soup. You cant take it out after you put it in the pot. Power games like politics are a bitch.

 

[Tallulah]

Didn't she says its a massage normally done in the nude? Not that he was nude?

The wording was a little confusing, but she did say he was nude:

But it wasn't until today that I realized it was a full body massage... which is customarily done in the nude. And I have to admit it was a tiny bit shocking seeing this person I'd just met naked, let alone touching him in that state.

 

[Thalassa]

someone I know brought up something obvious when I mentioned this to them... this guy is probably not a pervert, he's just cheap (eg, why have a professional masseuse come in at $50+/hr when your employee can do it for $15/hr)--although an unappealing that is not so morally wrong. also, even if the chances of him being a sex offender in the making are slim, it is entirely likely that she could face legal implications if she were to injure him due to lack of proper training. that on the other hand makes opting out as she did a reasonable choice imo.

I didn't say he was a sex offender. Plenty of men hire escorts and they aren't "sex offenders."

He's cheap - you're right. He wants an escort for the price of a "personal assistant."

She told him she didn't want to give the massages, and now the job is over. So the argument is also over, anyway.

 

[Laurie]

The wording was a little confusing, but she did say he was nude:

I'm still not sure that is saying he is nude. Thanks for trying to help clarify.

 

[Risen]

I'm still not sure that is saying he is nude. Thanks for trying to help clarify.

She said she was shocked to see him naked. Therefore, he was naked.

 

[little.bad.apple]

I thought of that, too--it IS possible he could be just cheap. But it seems if he were just cheap and needed massage on his leg, that perhaps he'd just have her massage the leg, with him wearing a pair of shorts or something.

If he's just doing it to be cheap, though, he's not very smart--if she (or anyone else) sued him for sexual harrassment, he could be paying a lot more in the long run. I would think that appearing naked in front of your assistant and asking her to massage you would be a pretty solid case for sexual harrassment, no matter what his actual intentions were.

Of course, he's saving hundreds.. without taking into account the probable lawsuit.

Didn't she says its a massage normally done in the nude? Not that he was nude?

Ohh, it was a fully body massage supposedly to also alleviate stress from his massive workweek. And I know it's common for full body massages to be in the nude.. not to say it is/should be the norm.

 

[Grayscale]

I didn't say he was a sex offender. Plenty of men hire escorts and they aren't "sex offenders."

He's cheap - you're right. He wants an escort for the price of a "personal assistant."

She told him she didn't want to give the massages, and now the job is over. So the argument is also over, anyway.

Hehehe... I know I'm making a huge fuss, but someone's gotta stand up for the [potentially] innocent cause he aint here to give his side of the story.

This has been another lesson on why feminine intelligence deserves more recognition than men often give it. Just cause y'all go bonkers once a month doesnt mean we should throw the baby out with the bathwater. Too bad this guy doesn't have a wife, she probably would have set his expectations straight.

 

[Laurie]

Ohh, it was a fully body massage supposedly to also alleviate stress from his massive workweek. And I know it's common for full body massages to be in the nude.. not to say it is/should be the norm.

So he was or wasn't nude? Sorry, I'm just trying to understand.

I got the feeling that what he showed her he wanted done was full body massage, and she later realized that it might mean in the nude. Why else the "I didn't realize until today" - I'm sure she knew if it was nude that day.

 

[Giggly]

Too bad this guy doesn't have a wife, she probably would have set his expectations straight.

I really hope he doesn't have a wife.

Considering that he may be concerned with saving money, if he did have a wife he could probably get his unprofessional massages from her for free.

 

[LotsOfHeart]

I feel pretty much the same way Tewt does. I don't think a personal assistant should be massaging their boss while he's naked. But, that's my opinion.

 

[MinervaSSS]

Why should she blame her boyfriend? Is this to spare his feelings? To give the impression that if she was single it would be ok? That she isn't strong enough to make her own decisions?

Honestly I don't understand this suggestion nor do I understand why people suggest it's the best way out. There are times to play innocent and suggest someone else is the reason something can't happen but not this, how would that establish boundaries? If he's looking for ways to get her to do something she's not comfortable with knowing she's too insecure in herself to be blunt or worries too much about offending him to say she's uncomfortable means he can figure out how to manipulate her, and rather easily.

Besides, she's already stated there's no issue with telling him she doesn't want to do it without needing an excuse.

You are right - that is only a way to sidestep the real issue at hand, and conflict avoidance. Best way is to address the issue directly.

 

[MinervaSSS]

So I emailed him this.

"Hi, Mr. _________.
Well, I'm sorry for not bringing it up before, but after thinking about it I have to say I'm not entirely comfortable with the massage part of the job. I am still more than willing to do all the other tasks though. But I understand if you want to keep looking for someone who can do both jobs, I know it is very convenient to have just one employee. So no hard feelings either way, and thanks for the opportunity."

I sent this in the morning and later today realized there is no way I should still be working for him, even if it would just be the office work. Actually, it took discussing it with my boyfriend to see just how potentially dangerous the situation would be. My idealized way of looking at it was 'If he didn't attempt to cause harm the first time when he had the chance (because we were alone), why would he do it later on..'

Anyways, he said that yes, he is going to keep looking for someone who will do both "since that's much easier" for him. So I'm glad that's over.

So thanks everyone for the perspective. I guess it's situations like this that call immediate attention to a self-assessment.

Hey lilbadapple - glad the situation worked out for you the way it did - you are too kind, and luckily, he decided to exploit another young thing. I hope you find a good job with a boss that's not a total creep-despot-Mr/Ms important, and who has a shred of integrity!