low confidence and aware of it

[Ghost of the dead horse]

I feel like a regular average Joe, with average looks, poor finances and low to average popularity. Spending some of my moderately miserable time in teh intarwebs, I stumble upon two tests, which I answer just like I feel at the moment.

Other tells me I'm the life of the party with mad skills to earn a fortune if I wanted.

Other reveals me I've got a low confidence.

I'd have a high confidence if I believed the situation were as reported in the first test; yet the other reports I have a low view of myself.

Suppose I'd believe in these tests having been accurate. I can pronounced myself healed! I was a great person all along, just not recognizing, thanks to my erroneous bias.

What is the validity of this thought pattern and the conclusion?

Discuss.

 

[Totenkindly]

If no one responds to your thread, how will you react?

 

[disregard]

I'm not sure if this is a serious thread, but in any case: If you have low confidence, get outside of yourself. Many self-proclaimed deep-thinkers are doing little more than entertaining egoistic preoccupations because their mind cannot break free from the sickness that is anxiety and self-consciousness. Daily exercise, meditation, and activity will help to wash away your concerns with your Self.

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

If no one responds to your thread, how will you react?

I was being my miserable self all the time. Q.E.D.

 

[Night]

Validity of the thought pattern?

Relative to the exams? Poor; the exams seem to offer contrasting perspectives and/or your answers were too erratic during one/both to facilitate a normalized score. Maybe the tests were produced in contrasting cultural/financially-minded workshops. Regardless, the sample set was inconclusive; objectively enriching a score with the evaluations you described probably isn't likely and/or wouldn't create a reliable reference point. (Check your substrate, too... )

The conclusion (such that it is) seems fat with confirmation bias. Self-perception is a flexible entity; self-worth is probably not a quantifiable sum.

Joe's not a bad guy, anyway...

 

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

I feel like a regular Joe, with average looks, poor finances and low to average popularity. Spending some of my moderately miserable time in teh intarwebs, I stumble upon two tests, which I answer just like I feel at the moment.

Other tells me I'm the life of the party with mad skills to earn a fortune if I wanted.

Other reveals me I've got a low confidence.

I'd have a high confidence if I believed the situation were as reported in the first test; yet the other reports I have a low view of myself.

Suppose I'd believe in these tests having been accurate. I can pronounced myself healed! I was a great person all along, just not recognizing, thanks to my erroneous bias.

What is the validity of this thought pattern and the conclusion?

Discuss.

You don't need some BS internet test to believe in yourself. You don't even have to know that you'll meet the classic benchmarks of success (money, intelligence, etc.). You just need to work with what you've got and make the best of it, and stop your mind from harassing you about who you're not, or who you might not become. Work with what's in front of you from moment to moment, to the best of your ability. Put in some solid effort. If you fall, get back up. Shift your goal from attaining A B and C to "kicking ass to the best of my ability."

Anxiety and self-doubt is kind of like a mask people wear for years. After too much time, they come to identify with the mask and don't know what else they are. You can use the advice I've given you to help remove it, or you can come up with some other way. The way I see it, your entire post is mask-speak.

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

Validity of the thought pattern?

Relative to the exams? Poor; the exams seem to offer contrasting perspectives and/or your answers were too erratic during one/both to facilitate a normalized score. Maybe the tests were produced in contrasting cultural/financially-minded workshops. Regardless, the sample set was inconclusive; objectively enriching a score with the evaluations you described probably isn't likely and/or wouldn't create a reliable reference point. (Check your substrate, too... )

The conclusion (such that it is) seems fat with confirmation bias. Self-perception is a flexible entity; self-worth is probably not a quantifiable sum.

Joe's not a bad guy, anyway...

You're into it. Yes, diving into the depths of measurement, methodology and psychological fallacies. But then, what assumptions do you use to get to the idea of conflicting tests? That a person's self-confidence is a sum of the material condition of the trait's subfactors? If that were so, a person answering consistently would receive consistent scores from tests asking the state of their material conditions and those that ask their confidence with the said factors. But, I'm inclined to believe this is not the case.

You mentioned the chance that the tests might have been calibrated on a different population.

I'll dare to propose something more drastic. There isn't an established norm of confidence in relation to person's material conditions. The society hasn't established it. The psychologists haven't. Some treat them as separate and independent, some tightly interdependent. Some think a person's statement of their conditions is a statement of confidence. Others think it's a, d'uh, a statement of their conditions.

The whole concept seems ill-defined to me.

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

You don't need some BS internet test to believe in yourself. You don't even have to know that you'll meet the classic benchmarks of success (money, intelligence, etc.). You just need to work with what you've got and make the best of it, and stop your mind from harassing you about who you're not, or who you might not become. Work with what's in front of you from moment to moment, to the best of your ability. Put in some solid effort. If you fall, get back up. Shift your goal from attaining A B and C to "kicking ass to the best of my ability."

Anxiety and self-doubt is kind of like a mask people wear for years. After too much time, they come to identify with the mask and don't know what else they are. You can use the advice I've given you to help remove it, or you can come up with some other way. The way I see it, your entire post is mask-speak.

Yes, there's part that, worrying about myself. Yet it hardly describes my situation psychologically.

If I should really get into bottom of this, I've got a carefree attitude of detachment and contentment. I do recognize the intellectual need to see all my capabilities come true. I've thought a lot about the Finnish stance on Northern American self-confidence courses and such. I understand how believing in one's capabilities can be a self-fulfilling prophecy, but it can also lead some to be bombastic with no factual reasons at all to back up their inflated confidence.

Tests and such are manifestations of people's belief in this self-agrandissement. Yet, aside from psychological wow-factor and feel-good issues, self-confidence could be seen as a continuous variable describing a person's expected achievement in an arbitrary task. For purposes of selecting the most appropriate tasks to strive for, one should have realistic view of their future achievement in a given task.

Someone has great confidence and little reason to back it up? They'll stay happy and fail perpetually at too great tasks. Too little confidence? They'll perpetuate a series of tasks below their skill level.

What I'm disappointed with, is the simplistic idea that a self-confidence is a "must have" and "more, the merrier".

I do have unreasonably low practical view of myself. I thank you for the advice given to improve my current situation. There's a real deal behind this, as my burnout few years ago has diminished my self-confidence, something I've striven to gain back gradually.

Yet I'm interested about measurement, and the optimum self-confidence. Not for myself, I got that covered. But.. people don't think about optimum self-confidence in U.S. culture, do they?

 

[nightning]

Hmmm it's like how self-report survey for university professors indicates that 95% of them think their teaching abilities are above average... Clearly that cannot be accurate, but it does point to a population with high confidence though. Whether this is a group with high levels of competency and thus elevates the bar or merely a mis-perception of their actual abilities is besides the point.

So indirect means of measuring confidence do exist... but I highly doubt straight questionnaire format can detect low confidence when the individual is uncertain of their actual level of confidence. (Hmmm I find that to be a funny statement... being uncertain about confidence... do excuse me. )

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

Technical remark: I'll be sleeping for about 7-9 hours, unable to answer Do not interpret it as a sign of abandoning the thread. Carry on. It's good so far!

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

No answer! Well. Replace the tests with some respectable source of information, and think again.

Imagine you realize your confidence being lower than the situation would warrant. You immediately adjust your confidence up a notch and start living bravely and proudly, being successful in many new tasks. If confidence is just information based self-evaluation, becoming aware of it would facilitate immediate correction.

Then there's the camp that promotes high confidence as just something required, never mind if you've got nothing to be confident about. High confidence is seen as a tool that enables a person to start difficult tasks and persist, while enjoying their time doing them.

No wonder it's recommended for all. Never mind that unreasonably confident, mentally blind individuals can be a major pain in the butt. It's others that suffer, the one with high confidence will happily disregard evidence pointing to their failure.

I got sidetracked. I wasn't looking for self-help, but Edahn seems to have a clue. Low confidence might really be a belief of failure, blessing the person's habits of non-action and giving them comfort in not trying.

 

[Tigerlily]

Santtu what isn't wrong with everyone? Seems to me that we're all bi-polar or have ADD. Haven't you heard? It's all the rage!

Seriously if you have a mood disorder (you've mentioned this before) then visiting a psychiatrist and getting a prescription for an antidepressant might not be a bad idea. I take lexapro and while it doesn't change who I am, I find it smooths me out a bit. I take 5 mg's but I believe the usual dosage is 10 or 20 mg's.

Oh and fwiw I don't think you look average. As for poor finances, you're a smart man and I'm sure if you make a plan to achieve career wise you can change that.

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

Santtu what isn't wrong with everyone? Seems to me that we're all bi-polar or have ADD. Haven't you heard? It's all the rage!

Seriously if you have a mood disorder (you've mentioned this before) then visiting a psychiatrist and getting a prescription for an antidepressant might not be a bad idea. I take lexapro and while it doesn't change who I am, I find it smooths me out a bit. I take 5 mg's but I believe the usual dosage is 10 or 20 mg's.

I've done a few visits to a psychiatrist lately to help me finally overcome the last influences of my recent burnout. Seems like I've recovered as a healthy person now, i.e. not needing to be diagnosed with any problem whatsoever. Yippee! The mood disorder possibility was ruled out.

I think I just have it in my recent memory to have too little mental reserves to finish tasks, which has given me appropriately low confidence. Now that I've been able to work almost fully for about a month, I guess I'll gradually learn to trust my abilities and to recover my self confidence.

I'm more interested about the concept and measurement of self-confidence, and what it is tied to. Less so about getting help for the issue, tho thanks for everyone for that kind of help, too

 

[Tigerlily]

So you don't suffer from manic episodes now and then? Obviously I don't know you irl but I do see a pattern with you. This is not a personal attack btw just trying to help.

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

So you don't suffer from manic episodes now and then? Obviously I don't know you irl but I do see a pattern with you. This is not a personal attack btw just trying to help.

Yeah, the professional didn't see my current or life long behavior patterns corresponding to any diagnostic criteria when we studied them together. I once had a period in my life that raised suspicion in one professional, but it checked out false.

I've just been an A-type person, taxing my mental reserves too much and suffered the consequences, like burnout and depression. There doesn't seem to be any underlying condition which would force me to act that way in the future, so I choose not to I think I just experience the usual struggles of life at the moment.

And manic episodes? No.

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

Btw, get this thread back on topic! Why do we measure self-confidence, and what relevance does it have to the world? What is appropriate amount of self-confidence, or is better to have as much as possible?

 

[Tigerlily]

Okay SJ. Over and out. ;P

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

Okay SJ. Over and out. ;P

Ah, it's Dana who started the helping spree :steam:

Daily exercise, meditation, and activity will help to wash away your concerns with your Self.

 

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

Yet I'm interested about measurement, and the optimum self-confidence. Not for myself, I got that covered. But.. people don't think about optimum self-confidence in U.S. culture, do they?

Yes, and they push hard for it. It's a sad sight, actually. I think many Americans, especially males, feel ashamed for not being confident. There's a tremendous pressure to be successful and attractive and confidence is a component. The irony is the shaming aspect. IMO, confidence is won by acceptance more than by change.

As far as measurement... we can measure it any way we want and conjure up any construct we wish. It's arbitrary (though it tries to capture something, admittedly). Self-reports about self-confidence are almost useless for the reason above: people's egos will distort information when it rises to a conscious level to match their hopes and ideal selves, while, ironically, a person who has growing self-confidence might be more likely to admit that he or she isn't fully self-confident. I guess that leads back to the question or what self-confidence is -- an acceptance of one's limited potential, or maximum potential? I think it's the former, but Western society and the media give off the impression that it's the latter.

Optimum level? That question disappears if you think of confidence as a realistic appraisal and acceptance of one's abilities. Your dilemma only comes up when there's a disparity between those two, and in my mind, that only happens when people are anxious about something (such as not being confident) and are trying to force themselves into a confident frame of mind. That contradicts the entire notion of acceptance and will always lead back to self-distortion as a means of avoiding difficult feelings. The avoidance/pursuit game stands in contrast to the acceptance game. One is genuine confidence, the other is just insecurity trying to disguise itself. (IMO.)

 

[LostInNerSpace]

I feel like a regular average Joe, with average looks, poor finances and low to average popularity. Spending some of my moderately miserable time in teh intarwebs, I stumble upon two tests, which I answer just like I feel at the moment.

You create your own reality. Your conscious mind represents about 5% of total cognition. The other 95% is where the trouble is. People experience the world through models. Right now you are experiencing the world through a model that features a version of yourself with low self-esteem. In this model you see yourself as an average Joe, with average looks, poor finances and low to average popularity. And your post suggests that you seek some validation from the group. You should be looking to create that validation in yourself.

There was some fascinating research done that shows how amputees can experience phantom pain in their amputated limbs. One guy had his hand amputated but had a persistent feeling that his fingernails in the amputated hand were digging into the hand and causing excruciating pain. The researcher rigged up a kind of mirror box which the guy (amputee) put his other hand into to give the appearance that his amputated hand was in-tact--the pain disappeared. The pain returned when he removed his hand from the mirror box. This shows how there is a disconnect between what goes on in the subconscious mind and what people think in the conscious mind.

Try to create an image of yourself that is strong, confident and happy. Develop a mental picture. Keep working on the picture to make it stronger. The picture is for your subconscious mind. Talk to yourself aloud and reassure yourself with confident and positive affirmations.