Keirsey's soulmates: ENFJ/INTP

[Suzanne Brue]

okay, i've been reading a lot into what keirsey has said about your 'perfect match' in terms of MBTI types and i am intrigued. for those who don't know, it's matching your N/S function and flipping everything else. eg. pairing an ESTP with an ISFJ. at first i found the prospect of an ENFP being paired with an INTJ ridiculous, but the more i look into it, the more it makes sense. now i'm pretty much sold.

problem is, these pairings at first glance look so different that it's hard to immediately find connections. so my plan is to look at a different pairing every few days and discuss it with you guys and see if we can find these connections.

the one thing i want to stress with this thread is this: PLEASE TRY TO FIND REASONS IN SUPPORT OF A PAIRING AND NOT REASONS AGAINST IT. it's a given that keirsey may be wrong, however, given the nature of the beast we're dealing with i think it would be in our best interest to find reasons why they DO work, just because the connections are not obvious. if after all our efforts we cannot find a good reason for these pairings, fine, we can ridicule keirsey all we want. however, the last thing i want to do is to be blinded by first impressions and dismiss this theory/pairing when we haven't made our best efforts. i hope you all understand.

okay, that's all the background talk i'm gonna give. let's just start with the first pairing. give me reasons why an ENFJ and an INTP will work well together. let's hear em. have fun with it

For ENFJs their first function is Extraverted Feeling. ENFjs are wired to notice how everyone is getting along and jump in to smooth out what they imagine as a lack of harmony between people--emphasis on imagine. ENFJSs are nice to have sprinkled around your life. We're naturally fun.
We like making people around us comfortable, but can take on way too much responsibility for the feelings of others.
For INTPs, Extraverted Feeling is their 4th function, a grip spot.
Extraverted Feeling for INTPs is less conscious and reliable. So INTPS might like to have the ENFJ take over some of the emotional part of their personality. Is that a good idea for either?

 

[Jack Flak]

So INTPS might like to have the ENFJ take over that emotional part of their personality. Is that a good idea for either?

 

[Domino]

Behave or I've got a woodpile appointment with your name on it, mister! *shakes shamey finger*

 

[Sunshine8]

Interesting first post!

And I don't believe I've ever considered dating an NFJ before so your perspective is certainly from a new angle. So did things not work out because there was too much "sameness" in the other relationships?

The main conclusion I have come to is that the feeling of 'getting' each other was so instant and so complete, that all that seemed left to do was to try to keep that 'sameness' afloat. The relationship was so 'special' so 'Romeo and Juliet' that it sets up ideal expectations about the other person (and yourself). This is quite risky I think for any NF because of the possibility of co-dependance, and when both people are like that then the blind spots are rather huge. After a while it because difficult to weigh the importance of the other person's opinion against my own, difficult to separate his feelings from my feelings.

I am sure that if we had both been a bit more developed and secure as individuals (and experienced) there might have been a different outcome. But I feel that the ENFJ/ENFJ combination is a bit like playing with fire - you really want to know what you are doing (and who you are doing it with) before you fuse your soul with someone. Because that is what it can feel like.

 

[mnbvcxz]

First post. Discovered this site a couple days ago after google searching "INTP McCain ENFJ Obama." Go figure .......

I've seen opposite ends of the spectrum. I'm an INTP(male), initially married to an INTP, widowed after 3 years by a car accident. A very comfortable, easy-going, low-stress relationship. I married my friend, in many ways a mirror-image of myself. But lacking a bit in passion and excitement.

Married my ENFJ a few years later (and still together). To answer the original question, the reasons I find this pairing works:

(1) Others have talked about this so it's not isolated .... but there IS JUST "something magically inherent" within ENFJs that an INTP can make an instant connection. It happened with me. This despite my being the typical INTP: slow to trust, slow to reveal inner feelings, doubtful that someone really "gets my essence" despite the fact we've known each other for years. But my ENFJ did ... and I knew that within minutes of conversation.

(2) Despite the always-energetic outward appearence and seeming self-confidence, my ENFJ is a perfectionist and intense inner self-critic. This side is rarely revealed or talked about, despite her literally hundreds of friends. She has a lot of one-way conversations with those friends. Like the INTP, the inability to "really open up" seems present. I think it's the INTPs detachment and un-judging nature which bridges that and makes a "2-way conversation." Although, in my case, this happened WELL AFTER I intuitively and innately trusted her.

(3) Once this happens, each partner has a healthy respect for the other. There's also a healthy respect for each other's individuality. But they DON'T want to change each other. I think each personality type is among the types that are most accepting of others. I think a primary cause of failure in relationships is because one partner wants to change the other.

(4) A caveat to above ... it's classic MBTI theory that INTPs accept others unless a core value is violated, and that's true with me. ENFJs as well it seems. One benefit to a INTP/ENFJ pairing is that I think we have similiar core values. In summary: "Do right and Do right by your fellow man."

(5) INTPs I think have an innocent, idyllic world view deep down, hidden beneath layers built (many times cynically) in viewing the world from our rational viewpoint. ENFJs, meanwhile, I think accept that the world is coldly rational deep down, but bury that behind layers of idealistic thinking. These worldviews CAN (very dependent on healthy personality types, which is definitely not always the case) compliment each other extremely well. Another reason the ENFJ/INTP pairing can work.

Whoa ... now I'm tired! Maybe I'll get around to answering my original question somewhere (when I bumped into this thread): is Obama an ENFJ and McCain an INTP??? A political match of types, lol.

 

[Domino]

Welcome to the board!

I took both McCain and Obama to be SJ guardians. Neither are intuitive.

 

[Thursday]

Welcome to the board!

I took both McCain and Obama to be SJ guardians. Neither are intuitive.

exactly
obama seems intuitive because he is a perciever - ISFJ ?
and mccain is .....ESTJ ?

 

[Tallulah]

First post. Discovered this site a couple days ago after google searching "INTP McCain ENFJ Obama." Go figure .......

I've seen opposite ends of the spectrum. I'm an INTP(male), initially married to an INTP, widowed after 3 years by a car accident. A very comfortable, easy-going, low-stress relationship. I married my friend, in many ways a mirror-image of myself. But lacking a bit in passion and excitement.

Married my ENFJ a few years later (and still together). To answer the original question, the reasons I find this pairing works:

(1) Others have talked about this so it's not isolated .... but there IS JUST "something magically inherent" within ENFJs that an INTP can make an instant connection. It happened with me. This despite my being the typical INTP: slow to trust, slow to reveal inner feelings, doubtful that someone really "gets my essence" despite the fact we've known each other for years. But my ENFJ did ... and I knew that within minutes of conversation.

(2) Despite the always-energetic outward appearence and seeming self-confidence, my ENFJ is a perfectionist and intense inner self-critic. This side is rarely revealed or talked about, despite her literally hundreds of friends. She has a lot of one-way conversations with those friends. Like the INTP, the inability to "really open up" seems present. I think it's the INTPs detachment and un-judging nature which bridges that and makes a "2-way conversation." Although, in my case, this happened WELL AFTER I intuitively and innately trusted her.

(3) Once this happens, each partner has a healthy respect for the other. There's also a healthy respect for each other's individuality. But they DON'T want to change each other. I think each personality type is among the types that are most accepting of others. I think a primary cause of failure in relationships is because one partner wants to change the other.

(4) A caveat to above ... it's classic MBTI theory that INTPs accept others unless a core value is violated, and that's true with me. ENFJs as well it seems. One benefit to a INTP/ENFJ pairing is that I think we have similiar core values. In summary: "Do right and Do right by your fellow man."

(5) INTPs I think have an innocent, idyllic world view deep down, hidden beneath layers built (many times cynically) in viewing the world from our rational viewpoint. ENFJs, meanwhile, I think accept that the world is coldly rational deep down, but bury that behind layers of idealistic thinking. These worldviews CAN (very dependent on healthy personality types, which is definitely not always the case) compliment each other extremely well. Another reason the ENFJ/INTP pairing can work.

Whoa ... now I'm tired! Maybe I'll get around to answering my original question somewhere (when I bumped into this thread): is Obama an ENFJ and McCain an INTP??? A political match of types, lol.

Very interesting first post! I really enjoyed your perspective!

 

[Thursday]

Oook, I've been called a sick fuck and a bitch in the last 24 hours.

I don't mind playing around, but come on.

You didn't take it as a compliment ?

 

[Domino]

You didn't take it as a compliment ?

Simply? No. Clearly I'm crazy!

 

[Jack Flak]

Simply? No. Clearly I'm crazy!

mnbvcxz: Yeah, I think I vaguely know what you're getting at.

 

[proteanmix]

your fellow man."

(5) INTPs I think have an innocent, idyllic world view deep down, hidden beneath layers built (many times cynically) in viewing the world from our rational viewpoint. ENFJs, meanwhile, I think accept that the world is coldly rational deep down, but bury that behind layers of idealistic thinking. These worldviews CAN (very dependent on healthy personality types, which is definitely not always the case) compliment each other extremely well. Another reason the ENFJ/INTP pairing can work.

Thanks for this post especially this part! This is something I think about a lot.

I was reading Maria von Franz's Psychotherapy a while back and she said this about dominant Fe types. Maybe this is why I can't jive with most ENFJ descriptions although I know it's my best fit type. I'll finish this later when I've got more time!

 

[colmena]

Behave or I've got a woodpile appointment with your name on it, mister! *shakes shamey finger*

This punishment can only lead to good things.

 

[Jack Flak]

This punishment can only lead to good things.

All sides! They're comin' at me from all sides! *crumbles*

 

[colmena]

All sides! They're comin' at me from all sides! *crumbles*

Oh. Objective completed early. Time for tea.

 

[INA]

(2) Despite the always-energetic outward appearence and seeming self-confidence, my ENFJ is a perfectionist and intense inner self-critic. This side is rarely revealed or talked about, despite her literally hundreds of friends. She has a lot of one-way conversations with those friends. Like the INTP, the inability to "really open up" seems present. I think it's the INTPs detachment and un-judging nature which bridges that and makes a "2-way conversation." Although, in my case, this happened WELL AFTER I intuitively and innately trusted her.

Wow. From my limited experience with ENFJs, this is pretty insightful. It is in this way that they are kindred spirits of sorts. I haven't thought of it in the context of a romantic relationship, but I've found interactions with ENFJ more effortless and than most other types, partly because of this:

Once this happens, each partner has a healthy respect for the other. There's also a healthy respect for each other's individuality.

It is quite a contrast with ENFPs, where misunderstandings and conflicting values cause effortless friction.

 

[Jack Flak]

It is quite a contrast with ENFPs, where misunderstandings and conflicting values cause effortless friction.

This can be true.

 

[Salomé]

(5) INTPs I think have an innocent, idyllic world view deep down, hidden beneath layers built (many times cynically) in viewing the world from our rational viewpoint. ENFJs, meanwhile, I think accept that the world is coldly rational deep down, but bury that behind layers of idealistic thinking. These worldviews CAN (very dependent on healthy personality types, which is definitely not always the case) compliment each other extremely well. Another reason the ENFJ/INTP pairing can work.

What a profound insight!
I'm too cynical to agree with it though

ENFJs scare me with their intensity, I love their passion and idealism and drive but it's kind of in the way you love a wild animal - you can stand and watch for hours, fascinated, impressed, moved, mesmerized even, but you don't want to step inside the cage in case you get devoured. I've only met one (that I know of) of the opposite sex and he kind of made me all gooey, (which is not a good thing, btw, if you're an INTP).

Also, he's the only person I ever felt I wasn't good enough for. I worried I'd end up like Tess, abandoned by her Angel, for being a mere mortal. He really was pretty damned perfect though *sighs*.

 

[Salomé]

PLEASE TRY TO FIND REASONS IN SUPPORT OF A PAIRING AND NOT REASONS AGAINST IT.

you're such an ENFP

 

[mnbvcxz]

What a profound insight!
I'm too cynical to agree with it though

ENFJs scare me with their intensity, I love their passion and idealism and drive but it's kind of in the way you love a wild animal - you can stand and watch for hours, fascinated, impressed, moved, mesmerized even, but you don't want to step inside the cage in case you get devoured. I've only met one (that I know of) of the opposite sex and he kind of made me all gooey, (which is not a good thing, btw, if you're an INTP).

Also, he's the only person I ever felt I wasn't good enough for. I worried I'd end up like Tess, abandoned by her Angel, for being a mere mortal. He really was pretty damned perfect though *sighs*.

Wow, we're on the same page to a large extent.

I still vividly remember a couple months after meeting my current wife ...... having lunch with a great friend. I was discussing "the gal I'm currently dating", and while talking at length about how wonderful she was, I also said "but in a way she scares me and I'm not confident in what I offer her in a relationship." Exact words, I still remember them.

I was literally ready to abandon the relationship because of these fears. That's a damn tough transition for a typical INTP to make .... but from experience, it's worth it (thank God I did).