Jung on Ni-doms: "y'all a bunch of crazies."

[valaki]

Ti - "It is funny and might be an interpretation of the myth into modern cosmology we can use today, but the thing about “advance civilization, more advance than ours' today” are at best silly and a little insulting to our ancestors, who did amazing things with the technology available to them. Notice that the map is manipulated. The ridges at the west coast of Greenland are very small and not active anymore and in the pacific there is no ridge along the Californian coast and along Aleutian Islands. If they decided to take island arcs at destructive plate boundaries, then there are plenty of more places that need to be included in the serpent.

...sure maybe it's funny for a joke (I did laugh a bit ) but I just find it horrible that someone would actually believe such a thing. (No I can't even say that surely no one is that stupid because I see lots of people believing in esoteric crap that's no more plausible than this joke here)

The part about "insulting to our ancestors", isn't that more Fe reasoning than Ti? Oh well I know there's supposedly this Ti/Fe dynamics though I myself have trouble seeing it about myself

 

[Mal12345]

...sure maybe it's funny for a joke (I did laugh a bit ) but I just find it horrible that someone would actually believe such a thing.

The part about "insulting to our ancestors", isn't that more Fe reasoning than Ti? Oh well I know there's supposedly this Ti/Fe dynamics though I myself have trouble seeing it about myself

If the responder was Asian then "insulting to our ancestors" might be considered Fe or Te.

 

[valaki]

If the responder was Asian then "insulting to our ancestors" might be considered Fe or Te.

Er, elaborate? I don't understand how nationality matters here

 

[cafe]

In reality, Ni-dom and Ti-dom debating a concrete topic look very, very different.

Ni-dom makes a bizarre claim.
Ti-dom knocks it down logically.
Ni-dom doesn't see his or her claim as "bizarre," but sees logic as a less important than 'reality.'
Ti-dom gets annoyed and starts badgering Ni-dom.

Not at my house.

 

[valaki]

That's the point: imagination!

Are you now playing Ni-dom?

If you can't understand it, then I can't explain it!

Lool you crazy Ni-dom

 

[valaki]

Not at my house.

what is it like at your house?

 

[Mal12345]

Er, elaborate? I don't understand how nationality matters here

Ancestor worship forms part of Asian culture (example, in Shintoism).

Your point is invalid anyway as it removed the context of the comment - ..."who did amazing things with the technology available to them."

 

[Mal12345]

Are you now playing Ni-dom?




Lool you crazy Ni-dom

Right!

 

[valaki]

Ancestor worship forms part of Asian culture (example, in Shintoism).

Your point is invalid anyway as it removed the context of the comment - ..."who did amazing things with the technology available to them."

That's what I meant by the Ti/Fe dynamics, there's some T reasoning to support the F statement

And when I said I don't see it in myself, I meant I don't usually like to do this sort of thing. If I actually make a statement like this, supported by T reasoning, I feel somewhat uncomfortable, though the more reasoning is included, the less uncomfortable, sure.

 

[valaki]

Right!

So you admit you're crazy, good!

 

[Mal12345]

So you admit you're crazy, good!

But not a crazy Ni-dom. I wrote an essay for English class that sounded like an Fe-dom writing. This impresses the female English teachers, like mine, and she gave me a nice compliment on it (as well as an A).

Edit- I'm saying that I can write like any type.

 

[Mal12345]

That's what I meant by the Ti/Fe dynamics, there's some T reasoning to support the F statement

And when I said I don't see it in myself, I meant I don't usually like to do this sort of thing. If I actually make a statement like this, supported by T reasoning, I feel somewhat uncomfortable, though the more reasoning is included, the less uncomfortable, sure.

What is "T reasoning"?

 

[valaki]

But not a crazy Ni-dom. I wrote an essay for English class that sounded like an Fe-dom writing. This impresses the female English teachers, like mine, and she gave me a nice compliment on it (as well as an A).

Edit- I'm saying that I can write like any type.

Glad you have good acting.. er, writing skills

What is "T reasoning"?

MBTI T.

 

[INTJMom]

Welcome. Looks like my inflammatory click-bait thread title worked. I kid because I love.

Jung's meticulous and dense description of Ni doms follows.

...

Focal point for my post:

To summarize, he says Ni-doms normally are not concerned with the moral implications of what they've drawn as a "mystical dreamer and seer," and when they are, they're generally too removed from the reality of the object cognitively to act on this. In other words, the Ni dom may come to understand the deep principles underlying reality but lacks the ability to connect these to real world events or express the importance of this understanding, so cannot act upon these practically. This would be, as far as I'm concerned, an example of how Jung saw Ni doms as the superstitious ones (crying in the wilderness... picture the disheveled guy holding a "the world is ending" sign), though I certainly see similar conclusions about detachment from the object in his text about Si doms. Both Si doms and Ni doms are acting upon an imagined reality due to the introverted attitude of their perception...

Disclaimer: Jung's focus was on the deeply troubled people who he saw in his practice, so his type descriptions are all about people who are varying levels of unhealthy. Still, I agree with Jung's assessment of Ni and Si, and think they are structurally valuable at levels Briggs-Myers' revisions don't address in Gifts Differing.

So, Ni-doms, can you give examples from your experience that reflects or contradicts Jung's analysis? Do you think you see things very deeply, but in ways that feel impossible to express, and maybe make no practical sense once they're out in the open?

I can say, yes, I agree it used to happen all the time, but I cannot give a specific example. For the record, I hate being required to give specific examples, since Ni gleans principles, but that's a slightly different subject. But yes, I was married to an ISTP for 26 years, so the number of times it was pointed out to me that my ideas were not practical are too numerous to count. I get these lovely "ideal world" sort of ideas that are just rubbish when trying to implement them. I end up compromising, but feeling sick that I have compromised. Blah. I hate even thinking about it.

Thank goodness I am older now (almost 55) and some of my other cognitive traits have kicked in, so I'm not so bad as I was.

Just for the record, I don't care for the descriptive: "not concerned with the moral implications". That seems unfair and unkind, and certainly can't be true for an entire group of people. Perhaps you could rephrase that?

 

[cafe]

what is it like at your house?

The Nis are meaner than the Tis here, though badgering is generally not done at all to anyone. We have an environment of civility, crazy as that sounds.

But I am Ni and my husband is Ti and the idea of him badgering me about anything, least of all something abstract, is pretty ridiculous. That is not how he rolls, least of all with me.

 

[Mal12345]

Glad you have good acting.. er, writing skills




MBTI T.

I know. I just don't know what YOU mean by "T reasoning" in what you said. Overly abstract statement.

 

[valaki]

I know. I just don't know what YOU mean by "T reasoning" in what you said. Overly abstract statement.

In the serpent joke, I meant the reasoning for why it's insulting for the ancestors.

Applying it to myself, I mean it in context of a debate/discussion (excluding jokes), they are statements that come from an impersonal stance, that's not going to be any less abstract until I dig up examples from my memory

The Nis are meaner than the Tis here, though badgering is generally not done at all to anyone. We have an environment of civility, crazy as that sounds.

But I am Ni and my husband is Ti and the idea of him badgering me about anything, least of all something abstract, is pretty ridiculous. That is not how he rolls, least of all with me.

Civility in family? Oh no, must be pretty boring.

Right though, I did think Ti would be okay with dealing with abstract ideas. Even if only to cruelly dissect them ;p

 

[cafe]

Civility in family? Oh no, must be pretty boring.

Right though, I did think Ti would be okay with dealing with abstract ideas. Even if only to cruelly dissect them ;p

Ti doms can dislike interpersonal conflict and they can have principles about how other people should be treated that they live by. They can also have learned from experience that dealing with a pissed off wife is a horrendous pain in the ass.

But seriously, the only time I have ever seen my husband badger another human being was in a formal debate in college. That was in the early nineties, if memory serves.

Abstract ideas don't exist in a vacuum in any real sense. They are attached to people's opinions and feelings and egos. I don't believe it is possible to dissect them away from their human owners and debate them in an emotionally sterile environment and so one must take that into consideration and decide whether one wants to pay the interpersonal price of such an exchange.

 

[valaki]

Ti doms can dislike interpersonal conflict and they can have principles about how other people should be treated that they live by. They can also have learned from experience that dealing with a pissed off wife is a horrendous pain in the ass.

well okay

But seriously, the only time I have ever seen my husband badger another human being was in a formal debate in college. That was in the early nineties, if memory serves.

ah, I do it a lot myself and I can use Ti for it easily (or I call it Ti anyway)

Abstract ideas don't exist in a vacuum in any real sense. They are attached to people's opinions and feelings and egos. I don't believe it is possible to dissect them away from their human owners and debate them in an emotionally sterile environment and so one must take that into consideration and decide whether one wants to pay the interpersonal price of such an exchange.

I somewhat disagree - I find it silly that there should be an interpersonal price for such discussions/debates. :/

Sure, opinions can be attached to egos but I sometimes have these moments where it no longer matters. I kind of like those moments. It does make me feel extremely detached though, your expression "emotionally sterile" is actually pretty much spot on.

Anyway when it's not "emotionally sterile" like that, I don't at all mind a heated discussion and I don't feel there would have to be any "interpersonal price" paid if the other party also likes such debates. If other party prefers to stay detached emotionally - without taking anything personally either -, that's just as fine, I enjoy debating with such people just as much

Of course I may not be Ti-dom, I just think I use Ti in these discussions.

Your Ti-dom partner, what does he/she say then to your crazy Ni claims when you choose to ignore logic?

 

[cafe]

well okay




ah, I do it a lot myself and I can use Ti for it easily (or I call it Ti anyway)




I somewhat disagree - I find it silly that there should be an interpersonal price for such discussions/debates. :/

Sure, opinions can be attached to egos but I sometimes have these moments where it no longer matters. I kind of like those moments. It does make me feel extremely detached though, your expression "emotionally sterile" is actually pretty much spot on.

Anyway when it's not "emotionally sterile" like that, I don't at all mind a heated discussion and I don't feel there would have to be any "interpersonal price" paid if the other party also likes such debates. If other party prefers to stay detached emotionally - without taking anything personally either -, that's just as fine, I enjoy debating with such people just as much

Of course I may not be Ti-dom, I just think I use Ti in these discussions.

Your Ti-dom partner, what does he/she say then to your crazy Ni claims when you choose to ignore logic?

He offers alternatives and, as I said, leaves it at that unless my ideas threaten to inconvenience him in some concrete way. He doesn't consider it his job to fix me and I don't consider it my job to fix him.