Joining the ISFP doubt bandwagon!

[brainheart]

Cause it sounds like fun, and what kind of SP would I be if I weren't up on the latest trends.

I took a test. I got: Your Type is ISTP
Introverted 67 Sensing 12 Thinking 1 Perceiving 67

This doesn't surprise me much, because I've always felt more like an IXXP than anything.

I grabbed stuff from an ISTP profile that I relate to:

ISTPs lie dormant, saving their energy until a project or an adventure worthy of their time comes along--and then they launch themselves at it. The apparently frenzied state that inevitably ensues is actually much more controlled than it appears --but the whole chain of events presents a confusing and paradoxical picture to an outsider.

ISTPs are equally difficult to understand in their need for personal space, which in turn has an impact on their relationships with others. (They are generally quite comfortable, however, with being treated the same way they treat others--at least in this respect.) But because they need such a lot of flexibility to be as spontaneous as they feel they must be, they tend to become as inflexible as the most rigid J when someone seems to be threatening their lifestyle (although they usually respond with a classic SP rage which is yet another vivid contrast to their "dormant," impassive, detached mode). These territorial considerations are usually critical in relationships with ISTPs; communication also tends to be a key issue, since they generally express themselves non-verbally. When they do actually verbalize, ISTPs are masters of the one-liner, often showing flashes of humor in the most tense situations; this can result in their being seen as thick-skinned or tasteless. (Heavy emphasis on this.)

Like most SPs, ISTPs may have trouble with rote and abstract classroom learning, which tend not to be good measures of their actual intelligence. They tend, sometimes with good reason, to be highly skeptical of its practical value....

they are at their best in a crisis, where their natural disregard for rules and authority structures allows them to focus on and tackle the emergency at hand in the most effective way.

ISFP:

Many eagerly plunge into new avant garde experiences, 'hip' trends--some even setting the trends.

More in touch with the reality of their senses than their INFP counterparts, ISFPs live in the here and now. Their impulses yearn to be free, and are often loosed when others least expect it. The ISFP who continually represses these impulses feels 'dead inside' and may eventually cut and run.

ISFPs may be quite charming and ingratiating on first acquaintance. On other occasions, the same individual may be aloof and detached. Some ISFP males are fiercely competitive, especially in sport or table games, and may have great difficulty losing.

ISFPs interest can be held better through experiential learning, at which many excel. ISFPs will practice playing an instrument or honing a favored skill for hours on end, not so much as practice as for the joy of the experience. (This is also huge.)

ISFPs seem more mellow and quiet and nicer than me, but there is the whole creative, artistic/musician business, which is how I am. ISTPs like cars (I am indifferent to them, although I do love to look under the hood and figure out how they work- the mechanics is cool) and they don't seem to rescue insects as much as I do, but I've been told I have that sort of sense of humor and I can be pretty stinking detached. I'd rather be a carpenter or re-tile a bathroom than be a nurse or in any other service-oriented field. My favorite job was helping my dad put on a new roof. And I've heard that ISTPs are often musicians as well, that music is a way in which they can release their feelings, which is totally how it is for me.

Do I even give a crap about any of this?

 

[21%]

If the only thing you relate to in the ISFP profile is the music bit, I think you're pretty much an ISTP. There's nothing un-ISTP-like about loving music or insects

 

[ayoitsStepho]

No, stop it. Don't make me spank you!
You're staying an ISFP whether you like it or not!!

 

[Kingfisher]

i can really relate to a lot of what you are saying, you picked out quotes that i really agree with, both the ISFP and ISTP. sometimes - pretty often - i think that i am an ISFP.

i think that when you look at it point by point it gets MORE confusing.
a big part of the way i look at it is instinctual, how you engage the MBTI on a really personal level. i feel this huge raw pull to being an isFp, but it feels like ultimately i always fall back and look to to this very analytical deconstructive part of myself that has to break everything down into a system i can be familiar with.

but to me ISFP and ISTP are VERY blurred together,
i would be VERY INTERESTED to get into a really in depth conversation breaking down the REAL differences between the 2.

 

[brainheart]

I would as well, Kingfisher (sorry, Steph!)

The best way I can explain it... well, I think about how I'm pretty much split in enneagram between four and five. Thinking and feeling are so even in me. And neither one ever feels like enough- I have to do both. For example, say I'm going on a walk and I see this really cool bug. First off, I will be amazed by how cool it is- it will feel quite poetic- and then I go through this whole- what kind of bug is it, it has these sort of wings which must be useful in this sort of way, and it has this color pattern which must allow it to adapt to such and such, and I basically take it apart (not literally, I don't want to hurt it!) and study it, much how I hear other people talk about motorcycles or whatever.

Also, Fi values. Say someone bursts out with some unbendable value they have, I always find myself interrogating. I may start with, "I'm not being disrespectful in any way, but... then I get into the other side of the argument. I always see the two sides of the coin. My kid will get angry about a lion eating a gazelle, say, and I instantly reply, "well, the lion has to eat, too, and if the lion didn't eat that gazelle there would be too many of them and they would eat all of the vegetation and then there wouldn't be enough vegetation and the gazelles would starve." I can get very lecture-y, but it's not necessarily because I want to lecture, I just find knowledge and thinking about things to be really exciting. But it's usually things like that, real things, not abstract theories. Still, my husband can say I am a buzz kill at times. But it's just me, being excited.

I'm self-taught in basically everything I do. I have always been this way. I taught myself to swim and dive into the swimming pool when I was two; taught myself how to rock climb, taught myself yoga, guitar, piano, how to sew, surf, tile a bathroom, you name it. If I want to understand something, I will figure it out. People will start to try and teach and I'll yank whatever it is out of their hand and just say, "yeah, yeah, just let me at it." I think this may be how Ti works with Se, but I'm not positive.

Just some thoughts.

 

[brainheart]

i i feel this huge raw pull to being an isFp, but it feels like ultimately i always fall back and look to to this very analytical deconstructive part of myself that has to break everything down into a system i can be familiar with.

Wow. Yes. Exactly. That is 100% it.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

It would be interesting to start a thread asking which types you feel more closely pulled to and each person's Enneagram type. I'm betting that there will be an overlap of Enneagrams even though MBTI types will differ.

 

[Quiet]

It helps if INTP's really develope their verbal communication skills so that they are better understood. I know an ISTP and he always answers a question indirectly and it starts out as a seemingly irrelivant story which eventually comes round to a point of an answer. However, the story and answer still are non specific to the question I asked, lol. I always have to clarify. My Ni gets an awesome workout when I spend time with him. But, he's great most of the time. He's got a good heart.

 

[Walking Tourist]

Hi Brainheart,
Thank you for posting these descriptions. I too bolded everything that applies to me.

ISTP
ISTPs lie dormant, saving their energy until a project or an adventure worthy of their time comes along--and then they launch themselves at it. The apparently frenzied state that inevitably ensues is actually much more controlled than it appears --but the whole chain of events presents a confusing and paradoxical picture to an outsider.

ISTPs are equally difficult to understand in their need for personal space, which in turn has an impact on their relationships with others. (They are generally quite comfortable, however, with being treated the same way they treat others--at least in this respect.) But because they need such a lot of flexibility to be as spontaneous as they feel they must be, they tend to become as inflexible as the most rigid J when someone seems to be threatening their lifestyle (although they usually respond with a classic SP rage which is yet another vivid contrast to their "dormant," impassive, detached mode). These territorial considerations are usually critical in relationships with ISTPs; communication also tends to be a key issue, since they generally express themselves non-verbally. When they do actually verbalize, ISTPs are masters of the one-liner, often showing flashes of humor in the most tense situations; this can result in their being seen as thick-skinned or tasteless.
Like most SPs, ISTPs may have trouble with rote and abstract classroom learning, which tend not to be good measures of their actual intelligence. They tend, sometimes with good reason, to be highly skeptical of its practical value....

they are at their best in a crisis, where their natural disregard for rules and authority structures allows them to focus on and tackle the emergency at hand in the most effective way.

ISFP
Many eagerly plunge into new avant garde experiences, 'hip' trends--some even setting the trends.

More in touch with the reality of their senses than their INFP counterparts, ISFPs live in the here and now. Their impulses yearn to be free, and are often loosed when others least expect it. The ISFP who continually represses these impulses feels 'dead inside' and may eventually cut and run.

ISFPs may be quite charming and ingratiating on first acquaintance. On other occasions, the same individual may be aloof and detached. Some ISFP males are fiercely competitive, especially in sport or table games, and may have great difficulty losing.

ISFPs interest can be held better through experiential learning, at which many excel. ISFPs will practice playing an instrument or honing a favored skill for hours on end, not so much as practice as for the joy of the experience.

Who knew that this type thing would be this confusing?
I could be either.
On the other hand, I could be an ISFJ or an ESFP.
Once again, I'm getting the urge to have a bowl of alphabet soup.

 

[wolfy]

I grabbed stuff from an ISTP/ ISFP profile that I relate to:

To confuse the matter more I relate more to ISTP here in those quotes. It is my orientation towards people that convinces me of ISFP. I really need to impact people to feel. There is always somebody in mind when I do something. It motivates me to feel I can have an impact on somebody not something. Actually it isn't people it is a person. Always a person. Or persons, individuals. It isn't about sharing it is about impact.

i can really relate to a lot of what you are saying, you picked out quotes that i really agree with, both the ISFP and ISTP. sometimes - pretty often - i think that i am an ISFP.

i think that when you look at it point by point it gets MORE confusing.
a big part of the way i look at it is instinctual, how you engage the MBTI on a really personal level. i feel this huge raw pull to being an isFp, but it feels like ultimately i always fall back and look to to this very analytical deconstructive part of myself that has to break everything down into a system i can be familiar with.

but to me ISFP and ISTP are VERY blurred together,
i would be VERY INTERESTED to get into a really in depth conversation breaking down the REAL differences between the 2.

Great post and good idea. I really love this idea for a thread.

It would be interesting to start a thread asking which types you feel more closely pulled to and each person's Enneagram type. I'm betting that there will be an overlap of Enneagrams even though MBTI types will differ.

That seems a really interesting idea for a thread. Please do it.

 

[VagrantFarce]

My 2 cents, for what it's worth:

The difference between ISFP and ISTP is between dominant-fi and dominant-ti, and between inferior-te and inferior-fe. Here's my understanding of both dichotomies:

Both Fi and Ti are about reductive thinking - finding a root cause and whittling down the understanding of something to what is considered its bare elements. Both dominant-Fi and dominant-Ti types love "clarifying" things, for themselves and others.

• Fi is about emotional reduction - you naturally understand and empathize with root, emotional causes that you identify in people. You naturally like to immerse yourself in these emotions, sometimes to the detriment of your own responsibilities to others. When immature, these types might have trouble reconciling Inferior-Te - they want to take responsibility for things, but they might wave that by focusing on its worst aspects - the way that these arbitrary, external systems categorise and divide people, ignoring their emotional needs in the name of efficiency.
  
  
• Ti is about impersonal reduction - you naturally understand the inner mechanics of things, and instinctively see the world in terms of systems. You like to immerse yourself in these systems, sometimes to the detriment of your own responsibilities to others. When immature, these types might have trouble reconciling Inferior-Fe - they want to involve themselves in the lives of others (and are likely to understand themselves in terms of how they relate to others), but they might wave that by focusing on its worst aspects - the way that groups ignore the truth for the sake of tribal relations, clamping down on individual thought and action because it offends the "stupid" sensibilities of others.

Inferior-Te: "Individuals are so divided and discouraged, for such horrid impersonal reasons. I pay attention to how people feel, and that's more important than anything."
Inferior-Fe: "People are so easily manipulated and shallow. I can see how things really work, I couldn't possibly play along. Isn't anyone able to think for themselves?"

I think all IxxPs identify with these ideas (favouring the individual over the group), so if you're having trouble deciding, don't think of it in terms of which one you identify with the most (or indeed like the most) - instead, just try to observe your own thoughts and see which side you tend to land on.

 

[Jeffster]

I've found most of the ISTPs I have encountered in life are VERY different from me. Maybe it's because I'm such a "strong F" but beyond the basic traits that all SPs share, I find myself not relating to ISTPs much at all. Now, on this forum, I have more I think, because this forum lends itself to discussion of things that normally wouldn't come up in a room of SPs in real life.

 

[Halfjillhalfjack]

I've found most of the ISTPs I have encountered in life are VERY different from me. Maybe it's because I'm such a "strong F" but beyond the basic traits that all SPs share, I find myself not relating to ISTPs much at all. Now, on this forum, I have more I think, because this forum lends itself to discussion of things that normally wouldn't come up in a room of SPs in real life.

I am just curious: How would you say the ISTPs you know are so very different from you? I have troubles identifying the differences between ISTPs and ISFPs in real life....

 

[brainheart]

My 2 cents, for what it's worth:

Fair amount to respond to, but I'm going to leave it to this one for now, because I have stuff to do and I spent way too much time sitting at the computer yesterday and my legs hurt and it's nice out.

just try to observe your own thoughts and see which side you tend to land on.

All right, this is difficult, but I will try...

Ti seems more likely. I think that's what appeals to me about the MBTI- the system of it- and trying to understand how and why people behave (including myself) in a structural, mechanical way. I see a lot of beauty in systems, I derive a lot of pleasure from observing them, interacting with them. I would much, much rather do something like figure out how to make a mini skate ramp for tech decks for my son, based on a picture of the mass-produced one and the materials I have on hand- cardboard, cereal box, duct tape than engage with him on some sort of emotional, personal level. Well, that's actually how we engage. I suspect he's an ISTP, so that makes sense, I don't know.

This is hard for me, I think partially due to Ti often being defined by INTPs, vs ISTPs. I think when Ti is combined with Se it manifests itself quite differently. I don't think it necessarily 'seems' logical, it's just a matter of doing something- like how I said about making the skate ramp for my son- I didn't draw out plans or calculate the proper angle or anything, I just did it. But it turned out perfectly. I read somewhere that Ti for ISTPs can seem more like instinct- it's very unconscious, it's what people often view as intuition- like just figuring out how to play guitar or whatever, I don't know.

I absolutely have a tendency to prioritize my thoughts and my immersion in understanding things above my relationships. But I am more conscious of this than I have been the past and I work very hard not to do this.

Extraverted feeling is a seriously weak spot for me. As I said, I've become more conscious of this though, and I'm working on it. I feel very vulnerable in this area, oscillating between complete indifference to others and extreme self -consciousness/ left-out, no one likes me, the group is against me/I am no one without you/paranoia sort of feelings. These feelings can either make me cut and run or make me very defensive/want to fight or make me feel very unlovable and worthless. And I hate it, because I don't want to give a shit what others think about me, but sometimes I feel like I have no control over it. When I am under its influence I feel like a teenage boy, and I am a 35 year old woman.

And that's another thing, I have always felt very 'male', if that makes any sense. I often visualize myself as a man, identify with men, relate to them better- like I think of myself when I'm old and the immediate image I get is of this chill, mildly eccentric old dude. And I'm exceedingly heterosexual, attractive in all the ways females are supposed to be. It's weird, but that's how it is. Not sure if that's relevant or not...

Fi- I know I think like that, sometimes. Same with the Te. I'll try to observe more, but like I said, I need to go live my life.

 

[Jeffster]

I am just curious: How would you say the ISTPs you know are so very different from you? I have troubles identifying the differences between ISTPs and ISFPs in real life....

The ISTPs I know best (including my little brother and my boss) don't seem to give a damn about people or animals or nature or anything like that. I don't mean that they are always unfriendly or don't ever ask how are you doing or stuff like that.

What I mean is, I have what I can only describe as a depth of caring. I am very sympathetic, my emotions are always right at the surface or just below. I genuinely want the best for people and for pain and suffering to be minimized. I'm realistic about it I think (which separates me from many INFPs) and I am cynical, but I still CARE to do the best I can to help anyone that I get the chance to.

The ISTPs I know, on the other hand, have a very "leave me alone and don't bother me with your crap" attitude about people. It doesn't mean they don't have friends or that they spend time being hostile towards people. They like people who do the same things they like doing and don't bother them with things or other problems. They operate on a "leave me alone and I'll leave you alone" kind of mentality, whereas I tend to operate on a "let me cheer you up and make your life more fun" kind of viewpoint. That's the best i can do in describing it I think. They are unsympathetic most of the time.

In no way should anyone interpret this to mean I am saying my view is in any way superior to ISTPs. It's just different. And again, this is from my experience. Maybe I happen to know more of the more immature or unhealthy ISTPs. I dunno.

 

[brainheart]

I just don't feel like I can pigeonhole myself enough on this stuff. My interests and abilities are too varied; I pretty much test almost 50/50 on S/N, F/T. One thing's for certain: IXXP. I should just leave it at that. I mean, all I really need to know is that it helps me to get out and about and feed myself with new experiences to help me grow and get out of my head, and that being creative is important for me. This is information which can be gleaned from the IXXP typing.

The only downside is then I don't feel like I can really be involved on here. Hmm. Well, then I guess I would be getting out and about and feeding myself with new experiences that would help me grow and get out of my head.

I hate computers, the MBTI, and forums. They seduce me, suck me in, and suck out my soul.

(I sound really dramatic here when I really don't mean to be. You can just picture me tap-dancing while singing that if you'd like. It makes it far more cheerful and palatable.)

 

[brainheart]

Just took this test: http://4np.net/ddli/


I liked this test the most of any test I have ever taken (while taking it- it seemed really difficult to tweak your answers to guarantee a result you want). And I got...

Extraversion (E): 13 47 I) Introversion
Sensing (S): 16 48 N) iNtuition
Thinking (T): 37 32 F) Feeling
Judging (J): 5 70 P) Perceiving
You scored as an INTP.
__________________

 

[Eric B]

The ISTPs I know best (including my little brother and my boss) don't seem to give a damn about people or animals or nature or anything like that. I don't mean that they are always unfriendly or don't ever ask how are you doing or stuff like that.

What I mean is, I have what I can only describe as a depth of caring. I am very sympathetic, my emotions are always right at the surface or just below. I genuinely want the best for people and for pain and suffering to be minimized. I'm realistic about it I think (which separates me from many INFPs) and I am cynical, but I still CARE to do the best I can to help anyone that I get the chance to.

The ISTPs I know, on the other hand, have a very "leave me alone and don't bother me with your crap" attitude about people. It doesn't mean they don't have friends or that they spend time being hostile towards people. They like people who do the same things they like doing and don't bother them with things or other problems. They operate on a "leave me alone and I'll leave you alone" kind of mentality, whereas I tend to operate on a "let me cheer you up and make your life more fun" kind of viewpoint. That's the best i can do in describing it I think. They are unsympathetic most of the time.

In no way should anyone interpret this to mean I am saying my view is in any way superior to ISTPs. It's just different. And again, this is from my experience. Maybe I happen to know more of the more immature or unhealthy ISTPs. I dunno.

That would be the Interaction Style, rather than the cognitive functions. ST's are directive or "task" (rather than "people")-focused, so even with the inferior Fe, they will still not want to be bothered with people as much as an ISF or INP. IST is the classic "Melancholic", and tend to be loners, socially.

@brainheart: the the thing about being male sounds like the Animus, which is associated with the inferior function. So you could look into that and see if this "male" complex is involved with the things of Te or Fe. That would be another clue.

 

[brainheart]

@brainheart: the the thing about being male sounds like the Animus, which is associated with the inferior function. So you could look into that and see if this "male" complex is involved with the things of Te or Fe. That would be another clue.

"The anima and animus in Carl Jung's school of analytical psychology, are the two primary anthropomorphic archetypes of the unconscious mind, as opposed to both the theriomorphic and 'inferior'-function of the shadow archetypes, as well as the abstract symbol sets that formulate the archetype of the Self. The anima and animus are described by Jung as elements of his theory of the collective unconscious, a domain of the unconscious that transcends the personal psyche. In the unconscious of the male, it finds expression as a feminine inner personality: anima; equivalently, in the unconscious of the female, it is expressed as a masculine inner personality: animus.
It can be identified as the totality of the unconscious feminine psychological qualities that a male possesses; or the masculine ones possessed by the female. The anima is an archetype of the collective unconscious and not an aggregate of a man's mother, sisters, aunts, and teachers though these aspects of the personal unconscious can 'contaminate' the archetypes.
The anima is one of the most significant autonomous complexes of all. It manifests itself by appearing as figures in dreams as well as by influencing a man's interactions with women and his attitudes toward them, and vice versa for females and the animus. Jung said that confronting one's shadow self is an "apprentice-piece," while confronting one's anima is the masterpiece. Jung viewed the anima process as being one of the sources of creative ability."

Okay, I would say you are correct about the animus, but it is far more as this quote suggests (actually exactly as this quote suggests... interesting!), most decidedly not an inferior function. I think Te and it's my dad; Fe is my mother-in-law.

My 'animus' is more like:

coupled with:

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

That seems a really interesting idea for a thread. Please do it.

Done!

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/enneagram/28573-enneagram-mbti-overlap.html#post1073644