[ISTP] ISTPS

[jixmixfix]

haha, this probably sounds "sad", but i'm happy: i don't need anyone. ATM at least. it almost surprises even me how much i'm able to be single. I can think of more benefits in having my own time and interests.



I don't know. I have proven to myself I can fail at this or something. I kind of feel bad about some shit actually. I remember a long while back, me and some friends were stranded, and had to walk a long way home. We came upon a big field for a shortcut.. and one of the girls with me was wearing shorts. She complained about not wanting to walk in tall grass. She wanted me to pick her up the whole way. Why it fell on me, I don't know. I was one of the bigger guys there, and she liked me. I kind of laughed about it. Screw that. That's a long haul. After we got through the field though, she was tearing up and crying.. and I still thought she was being dramatic. Turns out, she got all kinds of rashes on her legs. Then I helped her, because she couldn't walk. She was allergic to something. When we finally got to the house we were going to, she had to sit in the tub, and she was still crying. Everyone thought I was an asshole for it. And I was, I guess. Pain makes sense to me. I don't want that. I'm just saying though. My first instinct was to not "rescue" her.

Even if you did pick her up I wouldn't call that rescuing. I wouldn't of helped her either unless she told me was allergic to the grass. I think for someone to get something from me they would have to ask politely and give me a good reason for the help, I'm much more understanding and helpful this way.

 

[sculpting]

Forget type. Men love this stuff. I'm a woman and I'm curious as to how other women see this. I see this kind of behavior in two ways. The way you described Poki. An honest need of assistance.
The other is used as a manipulative tool to boost the guys ego and then the woman goes in to get what she wants. Playing helpless/unknowledgeable but really isn't. I know at least one or two females who do this and the guys eat out of their hands. How do you guys know the difference?

The second version makes me kinda ill to be honest-there are many things I am not good at already and I detest having to rely on other people for things. However I see this second version on a weird abstract level-about ideas-in enfp-intj interactions. still yucky there as well.

 

[sculpting]

Display of emo I have no problems with, projection of emo though is another story. Why is Sad Fi BAD?
.

I suspect it feels way out of control if externalized to TPs. Happy Fi can be childlike and sweet, even angelic, but sad or angry Fi can be very angstful and is less about action, and more reactive. The EXTPs have an exceptionally low tolerance for unhappy Fi-they do try, but it is just too unsettling for them. My entp friend said that it makes his stomach drop-he feels agstful in turn, perhaps because of the shared nature of Fe. The IXTPs do seem much more resilient, perhaps better able to just tune it out?

 

[Poki]

I suspect it feels way out of control if externalized to TPs. Happy Fi can be childlike and sweet, even angelic, but sad or angry Fi can be very angstful and is less about action, and more reactive. The EXTPs have an exceptionally low tolerance for unhappy Fi-they do try, but it is just too unsettling for them. My entp friend said that it makes his stomach drop-he feels agstful in turn, perhaps because of the shared nature of Fe. The IXTPs do seem much more resilient, perhaps better able to just tune it out?

Te actually wears me out, Fi does not. I have an INFP friend right now who i have no problems with her Fi and we are very close and open with each other. Her Te though can drain the crap outta me.

 

[A window to the soul]

Forget type. Men love this stuff. I'm a woman and I'm curious as to how other women see this. I see this kind of behavior in two ways. The way you described Poki. An honest need of assistance.
The other is used as a manipulative tool to boost the guys ego and then the woman goes in to get what she wants. Playing helpless/unknowledgeable but really isn't. I know at least one or two females who do this and the guys eat out of their hands. How do you guys know the difference?

I do that. On the surface, it probably looks similar to the women you described. I test people to gain understanding. I'll play dumb and ask a question I already know the answer to. If the person gives me a BS answer, then I know I can't trust them with questions I *don't* know the answers to. I push people right to the brink of their intellingence to see what they'll do. I learn a lot about people that way; some of it might even surprise you.

I know who my real friends are and I don't feel I need to lather, rinse, and repeat the process with the same people. Does that make me fake? Maybe, at first.

I suspect it feels way out of control if externalized to TPs. Happy Fi can be childlike and sweet, even angelic, but sad or angry Fi can be very angstful and is less about action, and more reactive. The EXTPs have an exceptionally low tolerance for unhappy Fi-they do try, but it is just too unsettling for them. My entp friend said that it makes his stomach drop-he feels agstful in turn, perhaps because of the shared nature of Fe. The IXTPs do seem much more resilient, perhaps better able to just tune it out?

I know how that is. I want to fix it or make it go away, which makes recurring unhappy Fi particularly stressful to deal with because there's often a feeling of failure associated with it.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

I do that. On the surface, it probably looks similar to the women you described. I test people to gain understanding. I'll play dumb and ask a question I already know the answer to. If the person gives me a BS answer, then I know I can't trust them with questions I *don't* know the answers to. I push people right to the brink of their intelligence to see what they'll do. I learn a lot about people that way; some of it might even surprise you.

I know who my real friends are and I don't feel I need to lather, rinse, and repeat the process with the same people. Does that make me fake? Maybe, at first. .

What if the person you are asking questions of feels tested and throws answers? I've done that myself...
I get that tho. The girls I was talking about didn't do this for a vetting-to-trust kind of thing. The women I had in mind are pretty go-to and they are in full control of how things play out.

 

[LeftKick]

This may be a simple answer,but that's how I do things. The lowest common denominator. I want to be with people who want to be with me,not that need to be with me. Needing in an emotional sense is lost on me. I'm not saying it is wrong or doesn't have a place in some peoples relationships, just not with mine. I don't get it. When someone has decided to be with me because they want to ,that is the most wonderful and exiting thing I can think of.

 

[Poki]

This may be a simple answer,but that's how I do things. The lowest common denominator. I want to be with people who want to be with me,not that need to be with me. Needing in an emotional sense is lost on me. I'm not saying it is wrong or doesn't have a place in some peoples relationships, just not with mine. I don't get it. When someone has decided to be with me because they want to ,that is the most wonderful and exiting thing I can think of.

 

[Domino]

My ISTP best friend had/has a HUGE "savior" complex. I thought it was exclusive to him.

My INTP ex-bf also had one, and proceeded to try and "fix" me when I wanted no such thing. It was one of the main reasons we broke up.

Perhaps it's a possible unhealthy IxTP hiccup? Not everyone of a type, of course, but a possible downfall?

 

[KDude]

I think this is where "good ole Socionics" helps seperate two types of ITPs that get mixed up in MBTI. Ti-Se/ISTj types there have a strong sense of order and reasoning that projects outwards and imposes a bit. They have clear definitions and categories of how things should be. This could lead to some "savior" mentality.

LSIs have a strong command of how various systems, structures, and hierarchies around them work, and always have a clear idea of how to implement them and improve them. LSIs quickly and easily determine what is correct and incorrect according to the systems they are familiar with.

LSIs tend to logically analyze just about everything — even close relationships. LSIs view their partners and other members of their household as part of a system which should have a certain structure and order to it. Everything in this system should run like clockwork — scheduling, daily routines, responsibilities in the relationship, and household management.

LSIs seek to attain an important role in an important system and to maintain and perfect it — often becoming the guardian or watchdog of the system.

LSIs do not often think about the ethics of the systems they maintain. Instead, they discuss the ethics of other systems using the language and customs of their own systems as truth, and make value judgments accordingly.

ISTps otoh are lazy and at best, make observations and offhand advice - then laugh like Nelson from the Simpsons when you didn't listen. None of them try to save you (alright I'm just making that up. This isn't an official description).

 

[Domino]

And shame on you for not carrying that girl, Kdude, you big dopey. It was a long way? REALLY? Come on! You're 6 foot 90, and a big strapping lad at that. The next time some cute little lady in shorts needs to get across a field, I hope you volunteer.

 

[Poki]

I think this is where "good ole Socionics" helps seperate two types of ITPs that get mixed up in MBTI. Ti-Se/ISTj types there have a strong sense of order and reasoning that projects outwards and imposes a bit. They have clear definitions and categories of how things should be. This could lead to some "savior" mentality.

LSIs have a strong command of how various systems, structures, and hierarchies around them work, and always have a clear idea of how to implement them and improve them. LSIs quickly and easily determine what is correct and incorrect according to the systems they are familiar with.

LSIs tend to logically analyze just about everything — even close relationships. LSIs view their partners and other members of their household as part of a system which should have a certain structure and order to it. Everything in this system should run like clockwork — scheduling, daily routines, responsibilities in the relationship, and household management.

LSIs seek to attain an important role in an important system and to maintain and perfect it — often becoming the guardian or watchdog of the system.

LSIs do not often think about the ethics of the systems they maintain. Instead, they discuss the ethics of other systems using the language and customs of their own systems as truth, and make value judgments accordingly.

ISTps otoh are lazy and at best, make observations and offhand advice - then laugh like Nelson from the Simpsons when you didn't listen. None of them try to save you (alright I'm just making that up. This isn't an official description).

Why does the LSI descriptions sound so much like MBTI ISTJs?

SLIs are typically deeply in tune with the physical experience of their environment. They are very aware of physical sensations that surround them and how they affect them and often seek to surround themselves with pleasant stimuli.

Now that is STP.

 

[KDude]

Why does the LSI descriptions sound so much like MBTI ISTJs?




Now that is STP.

Yeah, it's weird.

I think a great deal of MBTI STPs are Socionics Si/Te types. On top of that, I'm probably not a Jungian Ti dominant as well. They sound more precise and systematic in his writings too, similar to the Socionics description.

 

[wolfy]

Yeah, it's weird.

I think a great deal of MBTI STPs are Socionics Si/Te types. On top of that, I'm probably not a Jungian Ti dominant as well. They sound more precise and systematic in his writings too, similar to the Socionics description.

I think it is much easier to relate to. I relate to SLI more than istp. Reading the descriptions, I think SLI fits me well. And I have read a lot of Socionics stuff lately. I like it. Delta fits me best also.

 

[jixmixfix]

SLI should fit the ISTPS here well because it's suppose to be MBTI ISTP. You guys know that if ISTP in socionics was ISTJ in MBTI that would mean that the functions would have to be Si Te Fi Ne. Socionics ISTP is Si Te Ni Fe, completely different. Socionics ISTJ is TI Se Fi Ne MBTI ISTJ is Si Te Fi Ne.

 

[jixmixfix]

I think it is much easier to relate to. I relate to SLI more than istp. Reading the descriptions, I think SLI fits me well. And I have read a lot of Socionics stuff lately. I like it. Delta fits me best also.

Socionics describes SLIS as tacticians and operators. MBTI describes ISTPS as lgocial and thrill seeking I much prefer socionics if I was going to choose. Although I think both have a fair argument.

 

[Poki]

Socionics describes SLIS as tacticians and operators. MBTI describes ISTPS as lgocial and thrill seeking I much prefer socionics if I was going to choose. Although I think both have a fair argument.

Yeah, its hard for me to pick. I am not a thrill seeking type, but I do love to push myself. I guess others would consider some things I do as thrill seeking, but for me its not about the "thrill" its about the ability and working towards doing it better.

edit: logical/operator fit me best. the other 2 seem to be tied to what fits me best

 

[KDude]

SLI should fit the ISTPS here well because it's suppose to be MBTI ISTP. You guys know that if ISTP in socionics was ISTJ in MBTI that would mean that the functions would have to be Si Te Fi Ne. Socionics ISTP is Si Te Ni Fe, completely different. Socionics ISTJ is TI Se Fi Ne MBTI ISTJ is Si Te Fi Ne.

That mostly correct, but there isn't really a 4 function order in Socionics per se. All 8 are represented in one way or another. The two first ones really define the type (for example, Si-Te for ISTps), the third is a "role" function they can play with, but the fourth defines their main weakness. The 4th function is always called a "PoLR" (point of least resistance), and the one that type really sucks at. ITps are Fe Polr. Which basically means they aren't very emotive or outwardly passionate, and not comfortable in groups like that. It's like walking on stilts or something. They build friendships better one-to-one. ESjs are Ni PoLR, for another example. They're not good with handling the unexpected.. They need stability. So they often prepare a lot. Really, they seem much like MBTI ESJs. The MBTI/Socionics mixups mostly happen with introverted types.

 

[Poki]

That mostly correct, but there isn't really a 4 function order in Socionics per se. All 8 are represented in one way or another. The two first ones really define the type (for example, Si-Te for ISTps), the third is a "role" function they can play with, but the fourth defines their main weakness. The 4th function is always called a "PoLR" (point of least resistance), and the one that type really sucks at. ITps are Fe Polr. Which basically means they aren't very emotive or outwardly passionate, and not comfortable in groups like that. It's like walking on stilts or something. They build friendships better one-to-one. ESjs are Ni PoLR, for another example. They're not good with handling the unexpected.. They need stability. So they often prepare a lot. Really, they seem much like MBTI ESJs. The MBTI/Socionics mixups mostly happen with introverted types.

I agree with that in group settings. My ISTJ cousin though is completely the opposite. Almost everyone would pin us as the same type from afar. Actually we are the same type until you get into how we operate internally. Well actually its complicated when it comes to group settings.. The group settings that she is comfortable I am not and vice versa. We process things really different though.

 

[jixmixfix]

That mostly correct, but there isn't really a 4 function order in Socionics per se. All 8 are represented in one way or another. The two first ones really define the type (for example, Si-Te for ISTps), the third is a "role" function they can play with, but the fourth defines their main weakness. The 4th function is always called a "PoLR" (point of least resistance), and the one that type really sucks at. ITps are Fe Polr. Which basically means they aren't very emotive or outwardly passionate, and not comfortable in groups like that. It's like walking on stilts or something. They build friendships better one-to-one. ESjs are Ni PoLR, for another example. They're not good with handling the unexpected.. They need stability. So they often prepare a lot. Really, they seem much like MBTI ESJs. The MBTI/Socionics mixups mostly happen with introverted types.

The only difference with the 4 functions is MBTI calling last four "shadow functions but ideally both systems use 8. I can't wrap my head around the J/P switch it makes no sense to me because it doesn't make sense that an ISTP is NE inferior. I think functions 3 and 4 are just as important when describing type.