[Type 9] Is this common to e9's or am I just the worst?

[Forever_Jung]

This didn't happen exactly like I'm telling it, I am just sort of summarizing the situation so I can illustrate the principle:

Let's say this girl I was seeing sort of blew me off or something, but had an explanation. I was wounded but I understood. I really did understand, I could see their point of view.

Then I tell my friends about it, and they slap me in the face (not literally) and go: WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU? How do you let people treat you like that? Look how hurt you are, I hate seeing you like this. You tell her that you're not gonna be her backup, blah, blah. Then they slowly construct an argument that convinces me she done me wrong.

So I go back to the girl, and say: Yo baby, why you gotta play me like that?

And then she convinces me she wasn't playing me, and then I go: I KNEW IT, I shouldn't have let them sway me, I always do that!

Then I go back to them and they slap me again and go: SHE DID IT AGAIN.

Then I notice the pattern, and have no idea who's right. I am obviously just getting pulled back and forth.

I have no idea how to decide "right". I don't really know what I want. I feel like people can interpret events in so many ways that it's impossible to know what is the right one. So it seems like it doesn't really matter what I feel or do. I might as well pick the one that makes people less mad.

But then I think: Wait a minute, that sounds nineish, don't let them influence you, so I try to look within and I all I see is a fly flying around and a tumbleweed tumbling. I try my best to decide what's right for me and me alone, but I end up regretting it by alienating both sides with my actions.

I feel like a blind bull in a China Shop who's had too much to drink.

Is this a 9 thing, an unhealthy 9 thing, or just something that isn't related to type at all?

If you experience this, have you found a way to combat it that you would like to share?

 

[Starry]

I think you are just 'the worst'...haha no I'm kidding.

Are you sure you are e9? I don't know how well I truly understand e9...but what you describe above sounds more 'phobic e6' to me for some reason. I know this isn't 'the place' this post originated from...but the content still has to do with loyalty, motive, intent, who is right, who is wrong, who has your best interests at heart. The e9s I know don't necessarily concern themselves with these type of things...as they seem to...literally...'float' above/away...or at least remove themselves from it (if that makes sense and I'm sure it doesn't).

 

[nanook]

a it's a complex subject. egoic people's relationship advice sucks.
on the other hand you (individually, not as a nine) may be lacking important insight into other peoples motives.
i can't really judge on what's going on based on what you say.

anyhow i'm not the enneagram believer anyway. people who have been said to be "nine" have been very different cognitive types (some autistic, others extroverted) and even more different individuals. so how could it even matter to you, whether this is nine related? conceptual curiosity maybe. that's okay. but i don't believe there is a good answer.

well my contribution is to introduce another dichotomy.
that of egoic pricks and their stupid relationship-behavior and -advice versus wise souls (equipped with young and thus not very self-aware minds). this dichotomy is not enneagram related and it's all over the place.

 

[Snoopy22]

My guess - not related

 

[SilkRoad]

I think you are just 'the worst'...haha no I'm kidding.

Are you sure you are e9? I don't know how well I truly understand e9...but what you describe above sounds more 'phobic e6' to me for some reason. I know this isn't 'the place' this post originated from...but the content still has to do with loyalty, motive, intent, who is right, who is wrong, who has your best interests at heart. The e9s I know don't necessarily concern themselves with these type of things...as they seem to...literally...'float' above/away...or at least remove themselves from it (if that makes sense and I'm sure it doesn't).

This is interesting, because I actually relate quite a lot to [MENTION=7040]Forever_Jung[/MENTION]'s post. (And I'm a primarily phobic 6.) I tend to be a bit over-influenced by the last person I talk to, basically. Not necessarily to the point of doing what the last person tells me. (It really depends what kind of situation we're talking about, what the advice is, etc). But at any rate, talking to a bunch of different people and getting different advice can really confuse me, especially if a few different people tell me different things and I respect all of them.

I think this is partly why in some contexts I choose to "switch off" and not take in more advice or information - because I ultimately need to do that to sort through things and come to a conclusion.

 

[Starry]

This is interesting, because I actually relate quite a lot to [MENTION=7040]Forever_Jung[/MENTION]'s post. (And I'm a primarily phobic 6.) I tend to be a bit over-influenced by the last person I talk to, basically. Not necessarily to the point of doing what the last person tells me. (It really depends what kind of situation we're talking about, what the advice is, etc). But at any rate, talking to a bunch of different people and getting different advice can really confuse me, especially if a few different people tell me different things and I respect all of them.

I think this is partly why in some contexts I choose to "switch off" and not take in more advice or information - because I ultimately need to do that to sort through things and come to a conclusion.

Oh yah...I relate to the OP very well - as well. And it's not that I think e9s cannot...or will not be able to relate to the above. Like other posters have mentioned I do not feel the OP is 'enneagram related' in that all people know what it is like to get conflicting information from their friends and relations and subsequently wonder what is 'real/right' or what they should do. What stands out as phobic e6 to me as opposed to e9 is sorta the 'overthinking' of it I (subjectively whether it is truly there or not) detect in the OP. It is the 'overthinking/second-guessing' that says 'head-type' to me. My understanding of e9 is limited...but from what I have read and observed...in spite of the fact e9s are conflict avoidant, wish to maintain the peace and a stress-free lifestyle, etc. etc. In spite of the fact they may, often times appear 'aloof' on the surface...they are still quite opinionated and set-in-their-ways (unmoveable, not easily swayed). Perhaps contrary to what it may appear like from the descriptions, they are actually an extraordinarily independent type to me (a lot of Fi doms here maybe? idk). I may be wrong but I feel that an e9...if faced with a similiar situation would either have already made a determination about 'who was right' and peacefully proceed accordingly...OR if they had NOT made a determination 'peacefully retreat'...go it alone...or go off on their own. I want to say that they wouldn't spend a great deal of time thinking about it and going back and forth (it is almost like they have some sort of internal compass that guides them). The main objective would be maintaining the peace. Not 'figuring it all out'.

^^senseless again? Probably.

 

[Viridian]

Although I've never had that sort of romantic experience, I can relate to what you describe - sometimes we realize that the circumstances surrounding us are very complex and that we're fallible, and it can be pretty uncomfortable not knowing where the truth lays. Like, you get two different perspectives and are at a loss about how to sort the wheat from the chaff, how to find some sort of method or argument to defend your view of things. Doubly so in a pretty emotionally engaging case such as yours.

I don't see it as restricted to one specific type - IMHO, it's more likely an indicator of simply feeling ambivalent about your situation.

 

[BlackCat]

I think so, yeah. 9s are influenced both by the external world and their own internal world by definition, but one or the other really defines them. Along with their laziness they have a tendency to pick up on others and what they want; and may be swayed by those that they trust. It sounds like this could have come from that. Others opinions and such become their own to some 9s in order to maintain harmony within themselves and with others. A lot of 9s have issues with knowing what they really want in general, and that doesn't help either (and also is a result of the both external and internal focus).

 

[Joehobo]

Honestly, it just sounds like you need more clarity on her motives.
A 3rd person perspective can give you some idea but your the one who knows the person, so its only a piece of the puzzle,
friends are biased and limited to their own perspective and that is even further skewered if they have some kind of emotional stake in it.
You gotta see things for yourself based on your own beliefs or in an objective manner, and while all doing this you have to be conscious of your own feelings which could be distorting your view on the matter.

As a 9, when I experience hurt, it may not be exactly intense but it can be deep, and sometimes I'll react to things people say or do emotionally but in my own mind its more like "I'm right, because I see things perfectly clear." and
I have all this energy backing it up that it leaves me with little doubt. This leads me to overlook details and not emphasise well enough with whoever my conflict is with, in reality this creates a mess, and it's damaged relationships aswell as friendships. In fact I had this conflict today as well, it's compulsive almost, I need to remind myself that I don't have all the facts and that I can't force or convince a truth until I know for sure.

Applying this to the enneagram I'd fit with the average 9, if you feel this is relative to your own experiences I guess that could be an answer for you.
Atleast I hope this is a 9 thing and I dont have something mentally wrong with me aha.


EDIT:
Keep in mind they have their reasons and it dosn't always have to be right in your eyes.

 

[Kasper]

My understanding of e9 is limited...but from what I have read and observed...in spite of the fact e9s are conflict avoidant, wish to maintain the peace and a stress-free lifestyle, etc. etc. In spite of the fact they may, often times appear 'aloof' on the surface...they are still quite opinionated and set-in-their-ways (unmoveable, not easily swayed). Perhaps contrary to what it may appear like from the descriptions, they are actually an extraordinarily independent type to me (a lot of Fi doms here maybe? idk). I may be wrong but I feel that an e9...if faced with a similiar situation would either have already made a determination about 'who was right' and peacefully proceed accordingly...OR if they had NOT made a determination 'peacefully retreat'...go it alone...or go off on their own. I want to say that they wouldn't spend a great deal of time thinking about it and going back and forth (it is almost like they have some sort of internal compass that guides them). The main objective would be maintaining the peace. Not 'figuring it all out'.

9s can have a very tough time knowing what they want and even who they are, much of the time those things come from other people. And as BlackCat posted, there is a tendency to follow what other people want. 9s automatically enter things with lack of judgement and an ability to see all angles, when people are involved it's rarely entirely one person in the wrong, my way of viewing this situation if I were in it would likely be to say everyone is right in their way and no one is entirely wrong in their way as I wouldn't see anything as definitive. It's not just about keeping peace, it's because we really do see all options and ways of being as valid.

The way we can seem "set in our ways" is when it comes to things we do not want to do, like face up to the tough stuff, or if we feel pushed by others. "Peacefully retreat / go off on their own" without making a determination would be most common imo.

I have no idea how to decide "right". I don't really know what I want. I feel like people can interpret events in so many ways that it's impossible to know what is the right one. So it seems like it doesn't really matter what I feel or do. I might as well pick the one that makes people less mad.

Is this a 9 thing, an unhealthy 9 thing, or just something that isn't related to type at all?

If you experience this, have you found a way to combat it that you would like to share?

Clearly non-nines can relate to what you've posted, imo the not knowing what one option is right because things can be interpreted in many ways is common nine thing, and following from that allowing things to just flow without investing in deciding is also a common nine thing.

You already know the answer is to look within, to silence other people's voices and words, one technique I would suggest is to find a peaceful place, nature is good, and clear your mind of other people's opinions and just write what matters to you and what you want, including how you want to be treated, if you make a decision it should be a conscious one based on what is right for you.

 

[The Great One]

Yes, this is a classic 9 thing to do.

 

[Forever_Jung]

Sorry I just sort of abandoned this thread guys! And thank you for your responses!

Although I've never had that sort of romantic experience, I can relate to what you describe - sometimes we realize that the circumstances surrounding us are very complex and that we're fallible, and it can be pretty uncomfortable not knowing where the truth lays. Like, you get two different perspectives and are at a loss about how to sort the wheat from the chaff, how to find some sort of method or argument to defend your view of things. Doubly so in a pretty emotionally engaging case such as yours.

I don't see it as restricted to one specific type - IMHO, it's more likely an indicator of simply feeling ambivalent about your situation.

Haha at the moment I agree with you. I think it’s just something that happens to people, not type. I think at the time I was just distraught, and blaming things on typology calms me. It provides me with a framework (however fallible) to neatly label and organize the emotional chaos.

I can see it as a 9 thing though, Black Cat makes a pretty good argument for it here:

9s are influenced both by the external world and their own internal world by definition, but one or the other really defines them. Along with their laziness they have a tendency to pick up on others and what they want; and may be swayed by those that they trust. It sounds like this could have come from that. Others opinions and such become their own to some 9s in order to maintain harmony within themselves and with others. A lot of 9s have issues with knowing what they really want in general, and that doesn't help either (and also is a result of the both external and internal focus).

This is similar to what I was thinking, but I could not articulate it that well.

First of all you don’t know what you think or what you want. Then you have to defend your hazy position against your friends, who are vehemently arguing with you. You don’t want to fight, and you don’t know what’s right, so it’s hard to resist the urge just to agree with them.

As a 9, when I experience hurt, it may not be exactly intense but it can be deep, and sometimes I'll react to things people say or do emotionally but in my own mind its more like "I'm right, because I see things perfectly clear." and
I have all this energy backing it up that it leaves me with little doubt. This leads me to overlook details and not emphasise well enough with whoever my conflict is with, in reality this creates a mess, and it's damaged relationships aswell as friendships. In fact I had this conflict today as well, it's compulsive almost, I need to remind myself that I don't have all the facts and that I can't force or convince a truth until I know for sure.
Applying this to the enneagram I'd fit with the average 9, if you feel this is relative to your own experiences I guess that could be an answer for you

This intrigues me, though I don’t relate to it at all. The obstinacy and backed –up energy sounds nineish though! I have to mull this one over.

9s automatically enter things with lack of judgement and an ability to see all angles, when people are involved it's rarely entirely one person in the wrong, my way of viewing this situation if I were in it would likely be to say everyone is right in their way and no one is entirely wrong in their way as I wouldn't see anything as definitive. It's not just about keeping peace, it's because we really do see all options and ways of being as valid.

YES! That hits home for me, and seems to be in accordance with what I have read about 9s. I think your being a Ne-dom has a lot to do with that kind of mindset. Perception before judgement. Which is weird, because 9 seems like a Si-dom sort of function. HMMM...

You already know the answer is to look within, to silence other people's voices and words, one technique I would suggest is to find a peaceful place, nature is good, and clear your mind of other people's opinions and just write what matters to you and what you want, including how you want to be treated, if you make a decision it should be a conscious one based on what is right for you.

Thanks! I’ll give it a try

i can't really judge on what's going on based on what you say.

Yeah, that’s okay! I wasn’t looking for that, I purposely left out the specifics.

that of egoic pricks and their stupid relationship-behavior and -advice versus wise souls (equipped with young and thus not very self-aware minds)

Yes, I think this is a big part of it. It’s hard to find good advice.

I think this is partly why in some contexts I choose to "switch off" and not take in more advice or information - because I ultimately need to do that to sort through things and come to a conclusion.

I think this is a wise course of action. I should try it for once!

Oh yah...I relate to the OP very well - as well. And it's not that I think e9s cannot...or will not be able to relate to the above. Like other posters have mentioned I do not feel the OP is 'enneagram related' in that all people know what it is like to get conflicting information from their friends and relations and subsequently wonder what is 'real/right' or what they should do. What stands out as phobic e6 to me as opposed to e9 is sorta the 'overthinking' of it I (subjectively whether it is truly there or not) detect in the OP. It is the 'overthinking/second-guessing' that says 'head-type' to me. My understanding of e9 is limited...but from what I have read and observed...in spite of the fact e9s are conflict avoidant, wish to maintain the peace and a stress-free lifestyle, etc. etc. In spite of the fact they may, often times appear 'aloof' on the surface...they are still quite opinionated and set-in-their-ways (unmoveable, not easily swayed). Perhaps contrary to what it may appear like from the descriptions, they are actually an extraordinarily independent type to me (a lot of Fi doms here maybe? idk). I may be wrong but I feel that an e9...if faced with a similiar situation would either have already made a determination about 'who was right' and peacefully proceed accordingly...OR if they had NOT made a determination 'peacefully retreat'...go it alone...or go off on their own. I want to say that they wouldn't spend a great deal of time thinking about it and going back and forth (it is almost like they have some sort of internal compass that guides them). The main objective would be maintaining the peace. Not 'figuring it all out'.

^^senseless again? Probably.

Haha Starry, your ENFP 6ness makes me smile. It made sense though. I think 9’s can be very independent in an obstinate way. I actually know a 9 that would just cover his head and say “OSTRICH!” every time his someone tried to discuss something unpleasant with him, refusing to listen to anything you said.. It would be funny if it wasn’t so infuriating.

 

[Thalassa]

This is interesting, because I actually relate quite a lot to [MENTION=7040]Forever_Jung[/MENTION]'s post. (And I'm a primarily phobic 6.) I tend to be a bit over-influenced by the last person I talk to, basically. Not necessarily to the point of doing what the last person tells me. (It really depends what kind of situation we're talking about, what the advice is, etc). But at any rate, talking to a bunch of different people and getting different advice can really confuse me, especially if a few different people tell me different things and I respect all of them.

I think this is partly why in some contexts I choose to "switch off" and not take in more advice or information - because I ultimately need to do that to sort through things and come to a conclusion.

It's not strange at all. 9s develop bad 6-ish traits when under stress or unhealthy. So when we are 6s we're going to relate to some unhealthy 9-ish behavior...though ironically, we are supposed to actually progress toward healthy 9-ish behavior when we integrate.

Dude, that is so fucking complicated. I want to marry a 9, though, I think because of it. My closest sister is a 9w8, I currently have a casual relationship with a 9w8, and I'm also friends with his 9w1 sister. And I'm still in love with a 9w1 who I'd drop them all for in a heart beat.

But yeah...I related to what he was saying too, until he said "I want to do the thing that makes everyone least mad." And I was like "heheh...no way bro. I'm way too counterphobic 6 to be concerned about making *everybody* least mad."

I can be pushed and pulled though by loved ones like that when I feel vulnerable, though, like I'm trying to find my security blanket to cling to, as far as either partner or friends go. "Choose safest security blanket, so confused." That's very 6-ish under stress though.

 

[SilkRoad]

Yeah, I can definitely see both some healthy and unhealthy 9 traits in myself...hopefully an indication that I'm a fairly healthy/integrated 6!!

 

[MrShatter]

I encountered a similar experience... except I didn't go and confront the girl afterward. I let my friends have their say and I left it at that. I didn't really believe them though. That she had screwed me over. She hadn't.

 

[Fluffywolf]

Let's say this girl I was seeing sort of blew me off or something, but had an explanation. I was wounded but I understood. I really did understand, I could see their point of view.

Up to that point I can probably relate. (Although it hasn't really happened ever, but I can potentially see it happening.)

For the rest, I would require friends with opinions I regard higher than my own. Which don't exist.

 

[tinker683]

This didn't happen exactly like I'm telling it, I am just sort of summarizing the situation so I can illustrate the principle:

Let's say this girl I was seeing sort of blew me off or something, but had an explanation. I was wounded but I understood. I really did understand, I could see their point of view.

Then I tell my friends about it, and they slap me in the face (not literally) and go: WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU? How do you let people treat you like that? Look how hurt you are, I hate seeing you like this. You tell her that you're not gonna be her backup, blah, blah. Then they slowly construct an argument that convinces me she done me wrong.

So I go back to the girl, and say: Yo baby, why you gotta play me like that?

And then she convinces me she wasn't playing me, and then I go: I KNEW IT, I shouldn't have let them sway me, I always do that!

Then I go back to them and they slap me again and go: SHE DID IT AGAIN.

Then I notice the pattern, and have no idea who's right. I am obviously just getting pulled back and forth.

I have no idea how to decide "right". I don't really know what I want. I feel like people can interpret events in so many ways that it's impossible to know what is the right one. So it seems like it doesn't really matter what I feel or do. I might as well pick the one that makes people less mad.

But then I think: Wait a minute, that sounds nineish, don't let them influence you, so I try to look within and I all I see is a fly flying around and a tumbleweed tumbling. I try my best to decide what's right for me and me alone, but I end up regretting it by alienating both sides with my actions.

I feel like a blind bull in a China Shop who's had too much to drink.

Is this a 9 thing, an unhealthy 9 thing, or just something that isn't related to type at all?

If you experience this, have you found a way to combat it that you would like to share?

I do this all...the time. It's a habit I wish I'd break

 

[Mal12345]

Very much a 9 thing to do.

 

[Ism]

Oh jeez, I relate to it too much.

I mostly just try- and I mean really, really try - to think about it. Realize that I'm still having a hard time choosing. And then I go with my gut.

It works sometimes? Honestly, the thing I most try to do is imagine someone else in my situation and figure whether or not I'd be okay with whatever shit is going down. This is helpful because I tend to downplay . . . everything, when it involves me directly. It's easier to figure out where I stand when I think of a friend I really care about, and how I'd feel about their ordeal if they were in my shoes.

Not that I don't care about myself, or anything.

 

[acronach]

there is no doubt in my mind that you are a 9

as far as your situstion goes i would just pretend to listen to both sides then not really worry about it unless she starts to blow you off more often