Is there anything beyond infinity? You tell me! ;)

[skylights]

You should practice giving more specific details...and caring to do so... This feels like a half-hearted effort... And when I see that you are not fully invested in this, I don't want to waste my time on this anymore...

I'm surprised you interpreted it that way? That did not occur to me in reading it, especially after the last point that he (she?) is not great with words or personality stuff. I might get some enneagram 9/8 out of vague/general wording but I feel like posting 2 questionnaires isn't demonstrating lack of caring. I don't know, I guess I'm just thinking about how my brother or boyfriend, neither whom is particularly into personality, would answer these questions. I think they'd be honest and straightforward, which is what I see out of OP. How would s/he know how to self-analyze to a useful extent without already knowing the information they are asking for? I think the suggestions to extend answers you gave in your post are excellent, and I could be wrong, but I think how OP answered without additional prompting is valuable information on how their psyche works, not necessarily an indication of half-heartedness.

 

[infinite]

Thanks to everyone

Gonna say ESTP for you.

Enjoy your stay here.

Hmm okay, just one question; where do you see extraversion > introversion?

Expected question about infinity.

When I was a little kid, I saw our universe as having an outer limit, like the surface of a bubble. Beyond that, fire. Nothing but roaring yellow-orange flames stretching for eternity. No sound reason why.

And, the way you communicate reminds me of the STPs around the forums, leaning more ISTP than ESTP. Welcome.

Lol sorry about the title but no worries it's okay to talk about this topic too. I didn't have such a colourful vision about the limits of the universe myself. As a kid, I do remember reading about some reasoning about why the university doesn't have outer limits and I was just trying to make sense of that and tried to imagine the concept of infinity. About the latter, no specific images, just a feeling of wondering.

And right I don't imagine that'd be a typical ESTP thing but then that's a stereotype.

How would you describe the way I communicate?

You're welcome!

Ti over Te because you're into the background logic of things, how things work and are set up, being precise, and navigating difficulty. You seem to have far more of a sense of natural underlying logic and an ability to tap into that, rather than Te's focus on outward categorization and efficiency. With someone strong in Te I would expect more of an emphasis on external logical coherence, organization, and productivity, and less emphasis on relying on and discovering that underlying framework.

The "maybe" is because you seem to have a strong emphasis on instinct and action, which points me towards gut types, but a few other mentions of your high energy and liking to keep moving and "impulsive procrastinating" seems more like 7 territory to me, leaning into 8 with gut and a few mentions of preferring control.

Ti/Te: hmm, yeah I can sometimes get obsessed about those "background / underlying" things. Not quite sure if it's Ti or Ni or what. And I only do it with things that interest me. But yes then it's quite the obsession.

I do have less patience for consciously spending time on / messing around with things you categorize here as Te. When I get down to working on something, organization does come out of the process later but that's just not how I start.

As for the enneagram, okay I will admit those two types are what I've been considering myself. How is the energy of a 8 compared to a 7?

 

[infinite]

I'd say INFP. "I wouldn't want to be well adjusted to society with a crappy mask," indicates Fe to be your shadow opposite, making Fi your dominant type. Your discussion of the two pictures points to a preference for Intuition over Sensing. I don't have time to go into great detail about this right now. Maybe 9w1 for enneagram.

This deserves its own post for a reply lol. So anyway, when you got the the time, do please explain what was N > S about my describing of the pics. And where do you see 9w1?

 

[infinite]

I'm surprised you interpreted it that way? That did not occur to me in reading it, especially after the last point that he (she?) is not great with words or personality stuff. I might get some enneagram 9/8 out of vague/general wording but I feel like posting 2 questionnaires isn't demonstrating lack of caring. I don't know, I guess I'm just thinking about how my brother or boyfriend, neither whom is particularly into personality, would answer these questions. I think they'd be honest and straightforward, which is what I see out of OP. How would s/he know how to self-analyze to a useful extent without already knowing the information they are asking for? I think the suggestions to extend answers you gave in your post are excellent, and I could be wrong, but I think how OP answered without additional prompting is valuable information on how their psyche works, not necessarily an indication of half-heartedness.

Yeah, exactly; It's not about not caring and there was a reason why I mentioned I'm not great with this stuff. I would have the patience to answer more in depth but first I do need to understand better what the questions are trying to get at. Btw yeghor made some excellent points on what they're getting at so that does help.

EDIT: I'm a "she". I said that somewhere in the questionnaires

You should practice giving more specific details...and caring to do so... This feels like a half-hearted effort... And when I see that you are not fully invested in this, I don't want to waste my time on this anymore...

Well eh skylights already answered and I can't add anything to that. I do appreciate spending your time on all this and your questions are really great and I'll be replying below; Also glad that you didn't seem to decide in advance that it's just a half-hearted effort on my part (or you wouldn't have bothered doing all that, right).

EDIT: okay, I will finish this reply later, I have to go do a workout first before it's too late .

 

[ndovjtjcaqidthi]

Hmm okay, just one question; where do you see extraversion > introversion?

"I have an inner life, I like to read and I rarely hang out with people. VS I like interaction with the world and don't want to be inside my mind too much."

The latter thing you wrote makes a better case for extroversion than the former does introversion. Extroverts have an inner life, they can read, and the fact that you rarely hang out with people means very little here.. While an extrovert will naturally focus on interacting with the outside world, and would dislike being "inside their own mind too much".

Then you described "Active interaction with people. Activity and competition as well." as a time when you had a lot of fun. Your mind turns to people.

"Group discussions are usually about me talking to several people "one-on-one" and quickly switching between, this is very stimulating though."

I don't think an introvert would usually use the word "stimulating" to describe the feeling you get from this.

"My default first instinct is definitely jumping into action. It takes a while for my brain to remember that it may be good to know more."

Your default function is an extroverted one.. possibly Se?..

There's a lot more stuff I could use here but I don't really feel like sifting through it all. You seem really energetic, domineering, aggressive, etc. You are ruled by your Id.

I really don't get where people are coming from saying you seem more introverted.. Haha. Just because you claim to rarely hang out with people and like watching tv? Get out.

 

[infinite]

"I have an inner life, I like to read and I rarely hang out with people. VS I like interaction with the world and don't want to be inside my mind too much."

The latter thing you wrote makes a better case for extroversion than the former does introversion. Extroverts have an inner life, they can read, and the fact that you rarely hang out with people means very little here.. While an extrovert will naturally focus on interacting with the outside world, and would dislike being "inside their own mind too much".

Would they dislike being inside their mind too much because it feels like a lower energy state? That's my problem with it.

Also it's true I don't mind stimulation from the outside world, I actually have a high threshold for that, e.g. being in a crowd doesn't feel like overstimulation. I feel pretty insensitive to a lot of stimuli really. However it's probably because I have a pretty superficial and broad focus on the environment. My mind automatically filters out a lot of details subconsciously and that's done in one go without having to look at everything in some serial fashion, so I called this a broad focus. Some stuff may stand out for a second (gets into the conscious mind) but I get bored fast by most of it and that's why I called it a superficial focus.

So, in general, my relation to my surroundings involves a partial devaluing of it. Most things in everyday life are "old news", as a kid I guess it was less "old news" :/. So often, I find that even reading some action packed fiction is more interesting than the crap in everyday situations. Or maybe I'll be thinking of my goals, how to get them sorted, or I'll analyse something. It's a problem especially if I'm staying in one place. If moving around (walking, running, traveling, etc), then that's fine. I still won't note a lot of things around me on a conscious level though.

It's of course very different if I can get involved in some action that takes my attention. Some competitive stuff or other challenge is best. And there's some objects/things that do take my attention strongly & I like having some strong stimuli etc.

Make any sense for an extravert? That partial devaluing and filtering of the surroundings especially?

Then you described "Active interaction with people. Activity and competition as well." as a time when you had a lot of fun. Your mind turns to people.

Uh sure, people as objects

Seriously though, I do like interaction, yes. Once I'm involved in interaction, I'm a lot less selective about it than what I described above.

"Group discussions are usually about me talking to several people "one-on-one" and quickly switching between, this is very stimulating though."

I don't think an introvert would usually use the word "stimulating" to describe the feeling you get from this.

Hmm okay. Btw I do this more online. Offline I definitely prefer less talking. It's like, my concious attention is differently oriented then.

There's a lot more stuff I could use here but I don't really feel like sifting through it all. You seem really energetic, domineering, aggressive, etc. You are ruled by your Id.

Well heh the only one I'd fix here is the "domineering" adjective, I'm only like that when I'm out there to get something. I'm a domineering go-getter then but otherwise, when I don't need/want something, I'm not into going around and controlling people l'art pour l'art.

Though it's possible that I see it differently than certain other people. When e.g. I state my opinion to someone or ask someone to do something without any second thoughts on social niceties, it's with such confidence that more sensitive people call it domineering, bossy, etc etc. I don't see it that way but then this is a natural state for me and I'm less sensitive to it.

I really don't get where people are coming from saying you seem more introverted.. Haha. Just because you claim to rarely hang out with people and like watching tv? Get out.

Heh I'll be glad to hear from others on introversion. And about what I said above when I asked you if it makes sense to you.

 

[infinite]

[MENTION=20531]yeghor[/MENTION]

So here we go as promised

Your inferior function is what you feel inferior in...We all have a love\hate relationship with our respective inferior function...

We try to belittle\devalue it when we see it in others but also secretly admire and want to be proficient in it...

When I see Se-doms acting all loud, obnoxious and like brutes for instance, I devalue them as acting incivil but I admire how they can use Se for non-violent, non-destructive purposes such as dancing, sports, arts, body language etc...

So what do you devalue in other people, which type or type of behaviour in others irritate you and cause you "stress" more... Like you don't know how to deal with it when exposed to it...?

OK that makes more sense now Still, I wouldn't call it feeling inferior because I don't focus on that type of feeling by default. I feel a sort of irritation much more easily instead. You yourself used the word "irritate"

I think the sort of thing that annoys me in this fashion is what you asked about later: "What do you do when people step on your toe, even if they are acting in line with social norms or law?"

That usually means that certain people criticize my talking style or behaviour. They themselves stay proper and correct of course, in line with social norms... but I see it as unfair treatment still. Feels like I'm being picked on if they criticize in public. Claims have been the following: I was being rude, inconsiderate of other people's needs, too blunt or aggressive in stating my opinion or I shouldn't behave in whatever way or that I should take more action to become part of the group. The latter is particularly annoying because I know that I can only pay attention to that spontaneously and only when in the right mood. Having a good time with other people is supposed to be a spontaneous thing anyway, not done with calculation and effort. The same for paying attention to the niceties, it's really mood dependent, as I said before That's what makes me inconsistent. Sometimes it somehow surfaces into my consciousness that the other person may have feelings and then I try to take care of them, but the problem is, it feels like I'm trying too hard to not offend them etc. Probably because I don't actually know how they're feeling so there is possibly a disconnect between the actual circumstances and my suddenly caring attitude.

It doesn't just apply to myself; if such people criticize other people for doing "weird things" where it's clear to me that the person didn't have any intention to harm anyone, I will usually go out of my way to defend them, of course violating whatever norms in the process and causing conflict.

Note, when I was a kid, I wasn't aware of these things at all so it wasn't really causing irritation or anything. I was more rude etc then. I mellowed quite a bit since then, but attention on these things I listed above is not under my control and I don't like that.

There was a period when I wanted to care and improve in these things but then I let go and accepted myself the way I am.

Hmm I can also get irritated when a task is new to me and I feel inadept at it, but that's more under my control than the above stuff. I know from experience that I just need to practice to get good at stuff.

"What is "fun" activity...You should be more specific... Think about times you have with close friends and whay you do most to have fun when with them..."

Whatever we enjoy doing spontaneously. Go around the city, travel, go hiking, running or other sport, watch movies, talk about something, play a game, esp something competitive.

"^This may be Ti-Se..." & "^This may be Se-Ti... You prefer first one I guess..."

Well I prefer both if that's possible to say The former is efficient, because it's absolutely the quickest way to learn and cover everything all the way to the point of mastery. (Though of course, the more practice along with it, the better.) So sure, I like that. Otoh, the latter is easier mentally, I don't have to think at all, just learn from interaction in some subconscious* natural way, but it takes longer to cover everything. (Though I think afterwards less extra practice is required to improve further.)

According to tests I'm a kineshetic learner and secondarily verbal (-> that's where logic comes in)... not a visual learner at all.

*: Btw I said subconscious because it's clearly not done consciously. Is that Se? Or what?

"So you prefer integrating the logic to your internal framework (Ti) more than checking the information against external frameworks (Te)...Ti-dom ar aux..."

Well I take a lot of logic from external frameworks e.g. science. It does feel like my own understanding though. I may add my own little ideas too.

Don't Te types feel that way then? They don't feel like it's their own understanding? What I'm actually asking here is, is there such a thing that someone doesn't feel that way?

"The first one asks whether you try to accommodate for the comfort of other people and to what extent...Do you care about whether and try to make sure that even strangers in your immediate surroundings are comfortable and that you don't cause them any discomfort... Or do you give more weight to your own needs, comfort and preferences?"

Yes I got that, maybe you misread that one, I said it's the second one I absolutely don't get That "following yourself and being yourself" thing; I mean, I know I'm being myself when I don't inhibit my own natural tendencies but I can only analyse this in an objective sense, e.g. by going the science of psychology. And, I don't make up guidelines for it. It just happens, me following what I want. No checking against guidelines or whatever.

As for the first one (accommodating others), when I was a kid I didn't have that on my radar at all. Now I sometimes do but I have no control over about the timing of it coming into my consciousness. It either happens or doesn't. I explained more about this above in this post. Otherwise yes, when I'm conscious of this, I don't make a difference between people, strangers or not. By default I give more weight to my own needs though.

"And by sometimes, for what\whom do you mean specifically?"

It can be anyone, anyone that I think is being treated socially unfairly by other people.

"Do you listen more or talk more among friends and acquintances? Do you dominate the conversation, want to be the center of attention...?"

For the first question, it's about 50-50... sometimes I'm not into the idea of talking at all.

If I'm in a talkative mood, I'll dominate the conversation. But it's not 100% so, I'm happy to ask questions and listen to the other party. Just when I ask these questions purely out of interest for the other party, some people can get offended because they feel I'm controlling by asking these questions. Seriously, some people are sensitive in this way that I'll never understand. :/

"Impulsivity = Ne\Se... About the last part, it's asking whether you emphasize action over planning..."

Right I didn't get that question I'm still saying both to some extent, though. I plan something then execute it. But, it's also possible I act without any plans and that's fine too. Just planning and no acting is not so good.

"This means you don't have strong or any Fe at all..."

Ha, I do feel like an introvert then (One of the reasons why I've thought about I preference.)

It's just me being lazy and also there is this little inertia that I have when I already have my mind set on something: there'll be a delay if switching to something else, to a different decision.

"Impulsivity Ne\Se...Physical aggression=Se... Trying to fix before acting out Ti-Se?"

Yes I try to fix it first. If I can fix it, I don't have any extra unused aggressivity "leftover", my anger just disappears, no need to act it out

"You are not normally emotional?"

When not stressed, I'm emotional for short periods only. My default is a calm/even/ready state.

"What kind of people infuriate you, cause you stress...people that you don't know how to deal with?"

The diatribe I had above about people telling me what's proper social behaviour. That's an answer to this question too

I do try to deal with them though, by angrily arguing. It's just not entirely satisfying because I'm frustrated as well and that frustration is what is hard to sort out. No control over that.

Other than that, in general I'm pretty tolerant of people. It's a "don't care to judge" attitude perhaps.

"19) How do your friends perceive you? What is wrong about their perception? What would your friends never say about your personality?

(...)

Your closest friend...?"

The person I was happy to consider as my closest friend for a while; she said I'm kind, smart, I know my way around. Later when we had a problem, she also said I'm being too dramatic.

My mother says I'm as energetic/fast as she is. Smart. Adept at getting around in life in general. Reflective sometimes.

Last bf said what he loved about me was I could get everything, that I set my mind to, sorted; so same what my mother said about adeptness. (And he viewed himself the same way so he saw a connection this way.) He also liked that I was sporty/fit.

Another good friend and family called me willful too, in the sense that I go my way.

"Vague...It's as if you've deliberately resisted submitting yourself to the questionnaire all along...?"

Well what information do you get out of it if I describe an usual day? When I'm asked what my day was like, I hate answering that to be honest. I never remember what I did an hour ago, it's like each moment is the only existing one.

"Consider your closest group of friends and just concentrate on recalling what adjectives they use about you..."

That's when I'm called kind and nice The rude etc stuff is claimed by more superficial acquaintances. Though I've certainly been called self-centered by last bf too.

Me being too analytical or not analytical enough, both have been claimed by acquaintances. Family doesn't really see the analytical side of me, above mentioned good friend did.

"Consider the adjectives\traits that you tell yourself that you should strive to be and not be...Like I should be X, Y, Z and shouldn't be A, B, C..."

OK, I see. I interpreted the original question differently, I took it as a question about what I find special and/or what I really gravitate towards.

I don't have a lot of these "should's" going on tbh. I used to think I should be better in a social sense, I sometimes still get the feeling but I don't really care. Sometimes I also tell myself I should control my impulses better. I think nothing else is in the foreground much. I think I mentioned all that when replying to 4th question in 2nd questionnaire*.

(*: "I want less procrastination, I would like to be able to control certain impulses more at will. Otoh, lose social inhibitions that I don't need. I should be able to deal with certain emotionality better. I could do with more awareness. Overall, a more self-realized person.

I wouldn't want to be a very passive person who just gives up on everything, on their immediate goals and/or on their visions, dreams. I wouldn't want to be someone with a schizo-like mind or a paranoid mind. I wouldn't want to be well adjusted to society with a crappy mask. I wouldn't mind being more a part of people stuff but I will never fit in if that's the price to pay for it.")

"Consider a time when you told yourself, "fuck, what do I do now?" and describe how you dealt with it..."

I'm really bad at finding specific examples from life but I'll try OK well, I took a guy (was my bf at that time) for a hike in the woods. We went around, it was a new relationship, I was talking about so much BS that I was not paying attention to the surroundings at all and when evening darkness started to set in, I realized I didn't really know where we were. My bf was feeling shitty/exhausted by then and he didn't know the place anyway. Didn't have map, not much of a light - sunset not yet complete -, anything, I guess I did think "fuck", not that I got too upset, I just kept leading my bf, my instincts found the way back and it was all fun getting us out of the woods. Less fun for him unfortunately

"8. Please describe yourself when you are in a stressful situation. How do you act and why? Real life experiences are welcome."

"Answered in prev questionnaire."

"You didn't !!!"

I did describe that I get frustrated, angry etc.; but ask a specific question then? Did you want an anecdote from my life?

"Se... Tell what you mainly do with friends to have fun... What differences do you notice about your relaxed and on-guard self...?"

The friends & fun part has now been answered above in this post.

Differences between relaxed vs on-guard self; When it's all a good mood, I don't look at people as hostile. I don't so easily start nitpicking and analysing shit that others say. I might even think of some jokes. I'm being less of an outsider. I sometimes almost feel like embracing humanity as a whole but for that I'd really have to be almost maniacally happy .

"How do you act (what do you think) when at ON and OFF settings?"

ON: being myself without inhibitions including coming on too strong, inconsiderate, whatnot. The positive part of it is me being extremely ready and open to stuff. (But then that's too much for some people, too.)

OFF: not doing anything, sitting/standing apart/alone, passive.

"What do you do when people step on your toe, even if they are acting in line with social norms or law? How do you expect them to defend their rights when they feel that you stepped on their toes?"

I don't care if they seem to act in line with social norms, it just makes me more furious if they keep an appearance of that. That's the out of control feeling I talked about above.

In other cases, I don't get too upset about people "stepping on toe", I will enter a fight if needed, but not upset. I don't make much of a problem out of it, I'll just defend my position, resources etc. It can involve aggression but feeling in control at the same time, this is what I mean by not getting upset.

As for how they should go about defending their own rights, I dunno, that decision is their problem? I do expect them to speak up directly, though.

"How do you acknowledge someone's presence without saying hi or hello...?"

Smile, nod, wave etc... or not acknowledge it sometimes

"You are allergic to Fe...This may Fe-inferior..."

Sure maybe

Someone said shadow Fe???

"You didn't answer the question... What causes stress, irritation and anxiety in you most? What's it that you don't know how to deal with and panic...?"

Describe how you feel and act at those stressful times...in a non-vague manner if possible..."

I did answer the question about fears as best as I could - the things I listed are the things I would be afraid of losing etc. Not too much anxiety, I sometimes think of how I don't want to lose or never gain these things but it's not too often. I will admit I don't like to think about fears, just no.

The word usage "stressful" is a bit confusing to me as well, I think I implied this before, that I usually respond angrily and don't really feel that as stress, it's just energizing/invigorating. Other than that, I generally focus on the action to be taken/being taken, not on the adrenaline effect. So, I don't really panic, that's the thing. I may stop for a fraction of a second to think "what the fuck now" but then I just start focusing on action. Even when I don't figure out a course to take, I don't panic, I just somehow deal with being in the situation, I'm just there, getting through without getting affected much, without thinking or feeling much.

Oh and I noticed there's an extra outlet for some stress/fear, I unconsciously release/act out them through certain actions. It's a bit OCD-like but not really OCD. The action doesn't feel stressful, just good. I said this is unconscious because my mind doesn't just light up "oh yeah I'm doing this because of...". Over time I learned to identify the sources of acting out though. They are connected to the fears that I listed above. Also, any time I don't feel I have enough control over a situation, I can act it out this way. Guess not feeling in control is stressful to me then, I just don't notice the stress as readily.

"Immediate goals = ???
Dreams, visions = ???

Don't use vague information...be specific please...You are resisting to disclosing yourself... Is this what you fear? Making yourself vulnerable? But vulnerable in what way?"

I was just finding the question a bit complicated. I could list specific things but they may change so I tried to generalize. Are specific current goals revealing in any way? If you think so, tell me how/why and I can try listing some then.

Otherwise yeah I can be pretty guarded in general, but I don't specifically feel fear then, it's just an automatic thingie. I've got this streak about being private; don't like revealing motivations, drives and certain feelings. For example an acquaintance or even a family member may be asking me an innocent question about why I want to do X thing in a situation and I won't answer that, I will make up something or I will just simply not answer beyond saying "uhmm". If I was to be asked directly about feelings, I'd probably not even answer at all. This here is an anonymous forum, different to some extent

"What is a bad social situation to you?"

When I'm supposed to participate in some social event and I'm not in the mood to spontaneously be social. That's actually most of the time by default but if someone is welcoming and initiating an interaction, I usually respond well because I do like interaction. So my mood may change to be more social then. But even then I may not want to have the other people around. Well unless they seem interesting and/or I'm interacting with them too, but if not, then they're just irritating dead weight. Also feel better being a loner if there's no one else there

"I sense some kind of entitlement and chaotism in you... Chaos = Id = Ne\Se..."

Well I don't consciously make up a reason for entitlement. I just prefer to take what I want. That part's true.

"Chaotism"? I dunno, I don't really have an opinion on that one right now. Can you elaborate on what you see as chaotic in me? (I see it as 50/50, chaos vs organization)

"You should practice giving more specific details"

If there's a point to such details and if I know what kind of details you want, I will gladly provide them.


Anyway this is all for now, do ask away if something's not clear etc. Others are welcome to chime in too if they agree or disagree about any of the analysis going on etc. :hi:

 

[yeghor]

That usually means that certain people criticize my talking style or behaviour. They themselves stay proper and correct of course, in line with social norms... but I see it as unfair treatment still.

Note, when I was a kid, I wasn't aware of these things at all so it wasn't really causing irritation or anything. I was more rude etc then. I mellowed quite a bit since then, but attention on these things I listed above is not under my control and I don't like that.

There was a period when I wanted to care and improve in these things but then I let go and accepted myself the way I am.

Hmm I can also get irritated when a task is new to me and I feel inadept at it, but that's more under my control than the above stuff. I know from experience that I just need to practice to get good at stuff.

Fe is your inferior function... Perhaps as a kid, you were more like an ESTJ with inferior Fi, as you've grown older you've developed inferior Fe instead of Fi...as if you've turned yourself inside out...

The other thing may be stemming from wishing to learn things and be proficient in it...Ti-dom...

Whatever we enjoy doing spontaneously. Go around the city, travel, go hiking, running or other sport, watch movies, talk about something, play a game, esp something competitive.

Competitiveness and spontaneity = Se...


Well I prefer both if that's possible to say The former is efficient, because it's absolutely the quickest way to learn and cover everything all the way to the point of mastery. (Though of course, the more practice along with it, the better.) So sure, I like that. Otoh, the latter is easier mentally, I don't have to think at all, just learn from interaction in some subconscious* natural way, but it takes longer to cover everything. (Though I think afterwards less extra practice is required to improve further.)

According to tests I'm a kineshetic learner and secondarily verbal (-> that's where logic comes in)... not a visual learner at all.

*: Btw I said subconscious because it's clearly not done consciously. Is that Se? Or what?

S/N functions are not tied to the ego...whereas T/F are tied to ego... So the former may feel more automated/subconscious...?

Well I take a lot of logic from external frameworks e.g. science. It does feel like my own understanding though. I may add my own little ideas too.

Don't Te types feel that way then? They don't feel like it's their own understanding? What I'm actually asking here is, is there such a thing that someone doesn't feel that way?

I don't exactly know for sure...Te-dom/aux may shed more light on that...I guess they are happy with just checking things against externally accumulated knowledge/facts rather than integrating it into their own system of thinking...So perhaps they don't have personal facts that are set in stone...

Yes I got that, maybe you misread that one, I said it's the second one I absolutely don't get That "following yourself and being yourself" thing; I mean, I know I'm being myself when I don't inhibit my own natural tendencies but I can only analyse this in an objective sense, e.g. by going the science of psychology. And, I don't make up guidelines for it. It just happens, me following what I want. No checking against guidelines or whatever.

As for the first one (accommodating others), when I was a kid I didn't have that on my radar at all. Now I sometimes do but I have no control over about the timing of it coming into my consciousness. It either happens or doesn't. I explained more about this above in this post. Otherwise yes, when I'm conscious of this, I don't make a difference between people, strangers or not. By default I give more weight to my own needs though.

It's impossible for me to make a mistake...And, Fe-inferior...

If I'm in a talkative mood, I'll dominate the conversation. But it's not 100% so, I'm happy to ask questions and listen to the other party. Just when I ask these questions purely out of interest for the other party, some people can get offended because they feel I'm controlling by asking these questions. Seriously, some people are sensitive in this way that I'll never understand. :/

Ti and Fe-inferior...

Right I didn't get that question I'm still saying both to some extent, though. I plan something then execute it. But, it's also possible I act without any plans and that's fine too. Just planning and no acting is not so good.

Ha, I do feel like an introvert then (One of the reasons why I've thought about I preference.)

Ti-Se...

When not stressed, I'm emotional for short periods only. My default is a calm/even/ready state.

Fe-inferior...

The diatribe I had above about people telling me what's proper social behaviour. That's an answer to this question too

I do try to deal with them though, by angrily arguing. It's just not entirely satisfying because I'm frustrated as well and that frustration is what is hard to sort out. No control over that.

Other than that, in general I'm pretty tolerant of people. It's a "don't care to judge" attitude perhaps.

Ti-Se...Anger's coming from your Se-aux...and arguing from Ti-dom...

The person I was happy to consider as my closest friend for a while; she said I'm kind, smart, I know my way around. Later when we had a problem, she also said I'm being too dramatic.

Like streetsmart or booksmart? Dramatic how? Like a drama queen?

My mother says I'm as energetic/fast as she is. Smart. Adept at getting around in life in general. Reflective sometimes.

Streetsmart? Survivalist?

Last bf said what he loved about me was I could get everything, that I set my mind to, sorted; so same what my mother said about adeptness. (And he viewed himself the same way so he saw a connection this way.) He also liked that I was sporty/fit.

I like sporty/fit too...Make a guess why...

Another good friend and family called me willful too, in the sense that I go my way.

That's what I mean by chaoticism...You can disconnect without too much remorse, drama and are uninhibited (unlike me)...

That's when I'm called kind and nice The rude etc stuff is claimed by more superficial acquaintances. Though I've certainly been called self-centered by last bf too.

Me being analytical or not analytical enough, both have been claimed by acquaintances. Family doesn't really see the analytical side of me, above mentioned good friend did.

Ti-Se can be egotistical and impulsive...What do you do for them that they call you kind and nice?

OK, I see. I interpreted the original question differently, I took it as a question about what I find special and/or what I really gravitate towards.

I don't have a lot of these "should's" going on tbh. I used to think I should be better in a social sense, I sometimes still get the feeling but I don't really care. Sometimes I also tell myself I should control my impulses better. I think nothing else is in the foreground much. I think I mentioned all that when replying to 4th question in 2nd questionnaire*.

(*: "I want less procrastination, I would like to be able to control certain impulses more at will. Otoh, lose social inhibitions that I don't need. I should be able to deal with certain emotionality better. I could do with more awareness. Overall, a more self-realized person.

I wouldn't want to be a very passive person who just gives up on everything, on their immediate goals and/or on their visions, dreams. I wouldn't want to be someone with a schizo-like mind or a paranoid mind. I wouldn't want to be well adjusted to society with a crappy mask. I wouldn't mind being more a part of people stuff but I will never fit in if that's the price to pay for it.")

Hmmm...

I'm really bad at remembering specific examples but I'll try OK well, I took a guy (was my bf at that time) for a hike in the woods. We went around, it was a new relationship, I was talking about so much BS that I was not paying attention to the surroundings at all and when evening darkness started to set in, I realized I didn't really know where we were. My bf was feeling shitty/exhausted by then and he didn't know the place anyway. Didn't have map, not much of a light - sunset not yet complete -, anything, I guess I did think "fuck", not that I got too upset, I just kept leading my bf, my instincts found the way back and it was all fun getting us out of the woods. Less fun for him unfortunately

Se...

Sure maybe

Someone said shadow Fe???

Someone with shadow Fe would normally have Fi...shadow is the unused (or less used) mirror image of our functions...I don't think you have shadow Fe but normal inferior Fe...

I did answer the question about fears as best as I could - the things I listed are the things I would be afraid of losing etc. Not too much anxiety, I sometimes think of how I don't want to lose or never gain these things but it's not too often. I will admit I don't like to think about fears, just no.

The word usage "stressful" is a bit confusing to me as well, I think I implied this before, that I usually respond angrily and don't really feel that as stress, it's just energizing/invigorating. Other than that, I generally focus on the action to be taken/being taken, not on the adrenaline effect. So, I don't really panic, that's the thing. I may stop for a fraction of a second to think "what the fuck now" but then I just start focusing on action. Even when I don't figure out a course to take, I don't panic, I just somehow deal with being in the situation, I'm just there, getting through without getting affected much, without thinking or feeling much.

It's because you have inferior F function...

Oh and I noticed there's an extra outlet for some stress/fear, I unconsciously release/act out them through certain actions. It's a bit OCD-like but not really OCD. The action doesn't feel stressful, just good. I said this is unconscious because my mind doesn't just light up "oh yeah I'm doing this because of...". Over time I learned to identify the sources of acting out though. They are connected to the fears that I listed above. Also, any time I don't feel I have enough control over a situation, I can act it out this way. Guess not feeling in control is stressful to me then, I just don't notice the stress as readily.

You seem to have gained positive awareness of your actions...Are you in your 30s?

When I'm supposed to participate in some social event and I'm not in the mood to spontaneously be social. That's actually most of the time by default but if someone is welcoming and initiating an interaction, I usually respond well because I do like interaction. So my mood may change to be more social then. But even then I may not want to have the other people around. Well unless they seem interesting and/or I'm interacting with them too, but if not, then they're just irritating dead weight. Also feel better being a loner if there's no one else there

I feel like this too but I still yearn to connect...but you are fine with not connecting...that also feels chaotic to me...

Chaotism? I dunno, I don't really have an opinion on that one right now. Can you elaborate on what you see as chaotism in me?

Impulsivity and disregarding others without much remorse....

Thanks... I think you are an ISTP...

This forum seems to be teeming with IxxPs...

 

[infinite]

[MENTION=20531]yeghor[/MENTION]

I don't exactly know for sure...Te-dom/aux may shed more light on that...I guess they are happy with just checking things against externally accumulated knowledge/facts rather than integrating it into their own system of thinking...So perhaps they don't have personal facts that are set in stone...

Hmm okay I certainly don't do it like that. I prefer integrating things. I do have my own worldview based on certain principles. Though it's hard to imagine why a Te-dom couldn't have one. Anyway, I feel the best when I can integrate things into that worldview in a really neat way. That really gives a kind of high.

Like streetsmart or booksmart? Dramatic how? Like a drama queen?

Both, actually. I think my mother meant streetsmart more in that context but I've always been good at academic stuff too and she knows that. Actually I resemble her in all that.

Dramatic, my friend probably meant me being really emotional and pushy about something that she didn't want to deal with herself. Not in a refined drama queen way, that's more her area actually, not mine (She's very strong in F and I'm pretty sure she's enneagram 4 on top of that)

Streetsmart? Survivalist?

Yeah she meant it that way.

I like sporty/fit too...Make a guess why...

You chalking it up to MBTI?

That's what I mean by chaoticism...You can disconnect without too much remorse, drama and are uninhibited (unlike me)...

You said this in the context of the adjective "willful". Right?

As for drama... Sometimes I actually get emotional and dramatic in the way I talked about above. (I talk more about it in the beta/gamma typing thread of mine )

Ti-Se can be egotistical and impulsive...What do you do for them that they call you kind and nice?

I'm easy-going with them, I will be smiling a lot, I'm non-judgmental, open to hearing what they have to say, I don't attack them about shit (not as readily as I do with other people anyway), I'm helpful and supportive. Though not terribly good at giving emotional support, just other kinds of support. Technical knowhow or simply helping them get through shit in life.

Hmmm...

Yeah?!

You seem to have gained positive awareness of your actions...Are you in your 30s?

Hey I'm not that old yet. Don't ask a lady about their age. Anyway, more seriously, I figured out that one (about the acting out to release some unconscious stress) when I was 23 or so. I've always been good at observing my own mind and its trends. I have a knack for psychology. But good at it only in this impersonal sense, the subjective personality stuff eludes me unless I use some more technical system to look at it.

Also, I can't say I've explained everything about my mind, I'm better at just observing trends and figure out some stuff that way. I don't do it all the time so if I spent more time with this, I could know a lot more I'm sure. I also got some control over mental things, as a kid I already discovered I had access to this special control and used it whenever I needed it. What function would that be?

I feel like this too but I still yearn to connect...but you are fine with not connecting...that also feels chaotic to me...

Oh I sometimes wouldn't mind more connection. But yes as a kid I was totally fine this way and I still get by just fine.

Impulsivity and disregarding others without much remorse....

Hey I'm not a total psychopath. I see now what you mean by the word usage "chaotic" though.

Thanks... I think you are an ISTP...

I see and I will say it makes some sense. What about the thing about not being too sensitive to outside stimuli? See post #26 where I responded to Nights and Days about the I vs E issue.

This forum seems to be teeming with IxxPs...

But you're not an IxxP :/

 

[yeghor]

But you're not an IxxP :/

I am doubtful...

I am starting to wonder if my 10 yo nephew is an ISTP... He's arrogant about his intelligence... Hates social gatherings... Seems rather instructive like a Te person rather than a Se person though... He procrastinates much about homework even though he can do it just in 20-30 minutes... He thinks I am ridiculing him when I am amused by his behavior... Gets angry when I ask him too many questions...

My elder brother is ISFP I guess and his wife an ESTJ...any thoughts in relation to your childhood?

 

[infinite]

I am doubtful...

You're thinking INFP for yourself?

I am starting to wonder if my 10 yo nephew is an ISTP... He's arrogant about his intelligence... Hates social gatherings... Seems rather instructive like a Te person rather than a Se person though... He procrastinates much about homework even though he can do it just in 20-30 minutes... He thinks I am ridiculing him when I am amused by his behavior... Gets angry when I ask him too many questions...

Hm. I relate somewhat but I wasn't that bad myself when 10.

I relate to the feeling ridiculed too easily.

Where I don't totally relate, just to some degree:

I didn't hate social gatherings back then, I enjoyed most things there, I just ignored the refined social aspects. I was happily going around, doing my own thing, I sometimes readily interacted with other kids. I was usually perceived as too forceful/rude/inconsiderate/blahblah even though I didn't usually have bad intentions. However I didn't have any self-awareness or awareness of how I was being seen. When I gained some awareness that's what led me to dislike some of the social shit.

I did take it for granted that I was the smartest but I was still willing to talk to anyone, girls with low IQ etc. Though of course I saw some interactions as more quality (because of the other party being special/interesting).

I was sometimes being instructive but not that much. Just sometimes. E.g. I'm told in kindergarten I didn't speak for a long time. Then when I finally did speak, the first sentence that came out of my mouth was me telling some other kid "don't do that! not allowed". Something like that.

Yep procrastinated a bit though nowhere nearly as bad as later. I was more organized at that age, at the age of 10 I wasn't too bad yet. It didn't help though that when I came home after the very first day at school, I saw how easily and fast the homework was done. I was happily sitting down to do it then I was disappointed and thought to myself, "hey if this was all, it can be put off and done later". I was 7 years old

I never minded "too many questions". Worst that can happen is I won't answer all of them. So I don't relate to that one.

I dunno, overall I'm getting the impression that your nephew is more extreme in some T-ish things than me.

My elder brother is ISFP I guess and his wife an ESTJ...any thoughts in relation to your childhood?

My mother is ESFJ or Se-dom playing the mother role. My father INTx. I don't think there's a general pattern readily discerned about personalities of parents vs kids. I can tell you in my case I always saw myself as a hybrid of my mother and father, with more of my mother's stuff in me when younger, some stuff from my father manifesting more later. Whatever this means


Btw did you see the post #26 about the argument on extraversion vs introversion? Not convincing for you then? (Argument for extraversion)

 

[yeghor]

You're thinking INFP for yourself?

....

Btw did you see the post #26 about the argument on extraversion vs introversion? Not convincing for you then? (Argument for extraversion)

You tell me...

He gets really surprised that I know things that he doesn't...

I don't have any doubts about you introversion... Your Se-aux makes you extroverted from time to time I guess...

 

[infinite]

You tell me...

I don't know you

I don't have any doubts about you introversion... Your Se-aux makes you extroverted from time to time I guess...

Hm okay thanks for the input

 

[Stephano]

ExxP 7

 

[infinite]

ExxP 7

Thanks for the input

Why 7?

 

[Stephano]

Most of my day is lived impulsively and thus I am a hopeless procrastinator on certain things. My first thought when getting into action is definitely not organization in general. Yet I must have some organization in my day here and there at least in small doses. I have to have some immediate goals to go for. That makes me feel particularly alive. The rest of the time, I'm just totally self-indulgent without a conscience lol. Definitely gets in the way of being organized.

Mostly this. Btw, why do you use smilies? Is it to make sure you're coming off the right way or are you generally expressive? It could indicate Fi.

 

[infinite]

Mostly this.

Self-indulgence I'm sure is 7 related. Is the procrastinating on certain tasks 7-ish too? Or the immediate goals/desires, to go get things?

Btw, why do you use smilies? Is it to make sure you're coming off the right way or are you generally expressive? It could indicate Fi.

God knows why I feel like putting smilies when I do put them there. It's mood dependent. Is that Fi-ish? You say ExFP? Anyway, I think - when in the mood - my use of smilies online has the goal of expressing stuff. A mood, a feeling, whatever, often a fleeting light-hearted thingie. Sort of a joking mood.. trying to affect the atmosphere? It can offend some people though when I use them as more provocative embellishments e.g. in a debate.

IRL this is different. I'm guarded by default, but even when I'm in a more sociable mood, trust me it's easier to type a smiley than actually move your mouth to smile. Anyway, in certain IRL situations I'll do smiling and it's to fit the situation socially, I suppose. It's not really about expressing my inner feelings. Yes I said above that I'm not too good at going by the social rules but sometimes I do manage for short times and this is such an example. No it's not my natural state. It's again in the territory of stuff that's not under conscious control that I already talked about. And I don't like that. I'm rarely truly naturally spontaneous with this stuff, I like that more though.

I'm sorry if this sounds complicated but this topic for me really seems complicated like this heh.

 

[infinite]

I'm curious also what [MENTION=5510]simulatedworld[/MENTION] would say about my type

 

[Stephano]

Self-indulgence I'm sure is 7 related. Is the procrastinating on certain tasks 7-ish too? Or the immediate goals/desires, to go get

...

IRL this is different. I'm guarded by default, but even when I'm in a more sociable mood, trust me it's easier to type a smiley than actually move your mouth to smile. Anyway, in certain IRL situations I'll do smiling and it's to fit the situation socially, I suppose. It's not really about expressing my inner feelings. Yes I said above that I'm not too good at going by the social rules but sometimes I do manage for short times and this is such an example. No it's not my natural state. It's again in the territory of stuff that's not under conscious control that I already talked about. And I don't like that. I'm rarely truly naturally spontaneous with this stuff, I like that more though.

The last part sounds more like Fe, but it depends upon how often you do it. Everyone smiles from time to time although they're not feeling like it, but how would you answer that question?: Do you often feel that the emotions of your surroundings affect your mood rather than your own emotions?

Btw I'm prone to procastinate certain things. I often get things done the last minute, but somehow it always works.

 

[infinite]

The last part sounds more like Fe, but it depends upon how often you do it.

As I said it's not my natural state. So it's not "on" all the time for sure.

When it's spontaneous, the smiling, just because I feel happy, really having fun with someone, etc, it feels more natural but this isn't that often. Is that still Fe-ish or more Fi-ish?

Tbh the enneagram 7 thing, that's where it doesn't make sense. I'm not that good at joking and shit especially IRL. Sometimes I get in the mood for that but not my default.

Do you often feel that the emotions of your surroundings affect your mood rather than your own emotions?

It's more the latter. But please note that I'm not an emotional type in general. My default isn't emotional at all.

I'm really impervious to other people's expressed emotions around me. I stay unaffected rather easily. In this sense, I'm able to control the degree to which I'm letting myself be involved with others on this emotional level. When I tried to see if I can "join in", I was still having the control over it in the background. Like a leash on a dog. Usually I don't bother to try to "join" though.

Well sometimes it happens in a really spontaneous way but again, that's not often.

Btw I'm prone to procastinate certain things. I often get things done the last minute, but somehow it always works.

Yeah same for me Like I have this sense of timing, I know when to start just before it's too late hah. Great timing seriously and then I work really intensely and I actually like that on some level. (I mean, the hard intense work)