Is suicide justified?

[Lexicon]

It is as the great Galiani said: Nature does not care about us.

[YOUTUBE="97nAvTVeR6o"]not exactly relevant, but it popped in my head[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Lateralus]

Does suicide need to be justified?

 

[Stanton Moore]

Does suicide need to be justified?

Did you read any of the thread?

 

[Lateralus]

Did you read any of the thread?

Clearly I must have if I answered the OP.

 

[xisnotx]

Everyone's life is theirs to do with as they please. Including ending it if they are so inclined.

Beyond that, it comes down to personal motivations. Personally, the story of the Kodak guy has always intrigued with me.

Very succinct.

 

[The Outsider]

Many of you seem to be arguing from the premise that suicide is inherently unjustified, but can be justified in special circumstances, which is understandable from a psychological and cultural point of view, but it would be much more interesting to hear a rational reasoning behind that.

[MENTION=5159]Lexicon[/MENTION] addressed that, by bringing up the question of potential of a human life, which however seems to conflict with her point of contention with [MENTION=6336]AphroditeGoneAwry[/MENTION] , where the latter argues for an ideal way of existence for humans and the former disagrees on mostly psychological grounds. Both viewpoints seem very problematic to me and could be cleared up by first stating who has the right to choose what the potential of a human life is or is supposed to be, and secondly by clearly defining the ideal way for a human to live and die in a way that doesn't conflict with itself at the points that have been brought up.

I do essentially agree with [MENTION=10757]Nicodemus[/MENTION] and some others (who however seem to have a different reasoning, which is also understandable) that the question itself is nonsense, but that's not very fun.

Most of all, though, I'd be interested in hearing why suicide due to arbitrary reasons is any worse than that which is caused by great suffering.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

I think because you have the bigger issue of that we, though individuals, do not live in bubbles. We live in families and societies.

Yes, I think someone can and should be able to kill themselves if they want. I also think women should have the right to kill their unborn babies until such time as the baby could live independently outside the womb (and there was someone(s) who wanted to care for it, etc.) I think when one's life becomes dependent upon another or others, then those others have some rights as to whether they want to keep that life alive, and at what cost and benefit that occurs.

I guess I feel like life is not morally absolute; that because our lives can become dependent on others, it then depends on what those others deem important as well, and what we as a society deem important. (5 million dollars to keep a vet alive in his last years of life, whereby he's basically confined to a bed anyway ?)

 

[Lexicon]

Many of you seem to be arguing from the premise that suicide is inherently unjustified, but can be justified in special circumstances, which is understandable from a psychological and cultural point of view, but it would be much more interesting to hear a rational reasoning behind that.

[MENTION=5159]Lexicon[/MENTION] addressed that, by bringing up the question of potential of a human life, which however seems to conflict with her point of contention with [MENTION=6336]AphroditeGoneAwry[/MENTION] , where the latter argues for an ideal way of existence for humans and the former disagrees on mostly psychological grounds. Both viewpoints seem very problematic to me and could be cleared up by first stating who has the right to choose what the potential of a human life is or is supposed to be, and secondly by clearly defining the ideal way for a human to live and die in a way that doesn't conflict with itself at the points that have been brought up.

I do essentially agree with [MENTION=10757]Nicodemus[/MENTION] and some others (who however seem to have a different reasoning, which is also understandable) that the question itself is nonsense, but that's not very fun.

Most of all, though, I'd be interested in hearing why suicide due to arbitrary reasons is any worse than that which is caused by great suffering.

Ah, ultimately I can't absolutely state any specific should or supposed to, in this context, which was why I simply expressed how suicides from psychiatric illness feel sad/tragic to me. Moral judgement or if it were objectively warranted, ultimately, is not my or anyone else's call to make. It's the choice of the individual, and theirs alone, regardless of anyone else's perception, or the impact it may have on those left behind.

 

[highlander]

I tend to agree to an extent but what about child molesters or serial killers? How do you justify them living? how can they justify themselves living? especially if they've gotten to the point of not being able to control themselves?

I say throw 'em in the slammer and never let them out.

 

[Lexicon]

I say throw 'em in the slammer and never let them out.

And they live on everyone else's resources, then, right?

 

[Nicodemus]

And they live on everyone else's resources, then, right?

That is the price you have to pay for judging them by your moral standards.

 

[Lexicon]

That is the price you have to pay for judging them by your moral standards.

I'm all for the death penalty for those who murder or molest children- call me cold-hearted like that. Sometimes dangerous animals should just be put down. Ofc these are only my personal, subjective feelings on that topic/allocation of resources.

 

[Nicodemus]

I'm all for the death penalty for those who murder or molest children- call me cold-hearted like that. Sometimes dangerous animals should just be put down. Ofc these are only my personal, subjective feelings on that topic/allocation of resources.

That, too, is not cost-free.

 

[Lexicon]

That, too, is not cost-free.

True, sir, true. But it's substantially less, to me. Of course, again, this is from a personal standpoint- I can't expect everyone to agree.

 

[The Outsider]

True, sir, true. But it's substantially less, to me. Of course, again, this is from a personal standpoint- I can't expect everyone to agree.

 

[AgentF]

i do not wish to persist in a vegetative, permanently unconscious, paralyzed or severely mentally/physically handicapped state. and because i have strong opinions on these topics, i have prepared the following:

a living will, or advanced care directive which details specific circumstances in which i do and do not wish to be resuscitated, put on life support, fed intravenously, waitlisted for organs, etc. i had a lawyer prepare mine but free forms are available for download on Nolo.com.

previously:
a DNR (Do Not Resuscitate) order which i reviewed with/distributed to my family and 2 people closest to me. i kept a copy in my purse but i have revised my views on circumstances in which i do wish to be resuscitated so i no longer carry this.

of course, one can always go the route of less paperwork, but i would not expect EMTs to honor more creative attempts.

 

[Philosorapteuse]

I don't think "justified" is a very good word to use in this context. What earthly right has anyone else to say when or whether I am or am not justified in taking my own life? Even if it harms others, I'm not convinced that that's the key issue, and even if it is, surely you've paid for it in the ultimate way. It's a decision that can only reasonably be made by any one individual, surely. To condemn anyone else's choice about how and when their life should end, purely on the grounds of that choice and not with reference to its knock-on effects on others, seems astoundingly arrogant and self-righteous to me.

 

[SilverGhostStar]

Everyone has their own ideas about what limits there are. And, I would believe that those who have committed suicide felt that those limits were reached. As human beings, don't we generally have the will to survive naturally instilled in us? So, I couldn't imagine someone saying, "Oh hell, I just want to kill myself just because." :/ Maybe I'm wrong. But, wouldn't that will to survive override most situations until it seems so bleak that there's no coming back from it? It doesn't matter so much whether the person is right or wrong on if there's any coming back from their personal situation. At that point in time, they are in an absolute hell, I would imagine. Otherwise, why do it? Those who suffer are not themselves generally when they are that far gone. Depression, anxiety, etc. Is it justified? Who is to be the one to say? I was told before that there are two things that condemn a soul upon death. Murder and suicide. When asked who would condemn these souls, the answer was no one. In the answer, there was no greater being. And any living human that might condemn? Well, the person who committed suicide is already dead, so what does it matter to them at this point in time? So, as in that case, who is the one deciding on the justification of it? Fellow humans? It's too late for that, isn't it? A deity? Who knows. I don't know what the people went through. I have no idea what their souls are going through, assuming that there are souls, I suppose. I didn't walk in their shoes. For me, all that can be done is to wish them the best and hope that, if they are somewhere else, they are somewhere much happier for them.

 

[Illmatic]

I think about killing myself all the time.

I just don't have the courage to ever do it. I even get scared of it. But death seems better to me at times.

 

[Thursday]

If that's what you choose, then its justified automatically. It may not be the strongest thing to do, but its a choice, no matter how selfish.