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Is suicide justified?

R

ReflecTcelfeR

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Thoughts on Suicide

Merge if necessary.


I was just wondering what everyone's thoughts on this concept were, I believe I'll start. Don't be shy, I don't want this to be a 'Your heartless because you aren't as dramatically affected by it as I am!'

I know some view it as cowardice and I understand the reasoning behind such a belief, but I don't wish to ignore the reason why someone commits suicide and so I say that the choice is the persons, and if they saw it fit to do so then it was their choice. They are gone and seeing as you can't undo it, to me, it's hard to judge that. I do not have any personal experience with it though so I don't know how I'd truly react to such an occurrence. This is a rather somber topic, I know, but it has been on my mind.
 
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Halla74

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Don't do it under any circumstances.

No matter what, this too shall pass. Seriously. Think of how sad everyone you know would be, even if its not you, anyone contemplating this.

You had no say as to when or even if you showed up here, and that's how it goes for your departure.

Capice? ;)
 
R

ReflecTcelfeR

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Don't do it under any circumstances.

No matter what, this too shall pass. Seriously. Think of how sad everyone you know would be, even if its not you, anyone contemplating this.

You had no say as to when or even if you showed up here, and that's how it goes for your departure.

Capice? ;)

When I have contemplated what it would be like that is what stops me from going anywhere near the next step. However, I always thought it strange to imagine if atheism was correct. If it is then even if you did you wouldn't realize anything had happened and so the thought of effecting anyone around you ceases to exist after that threshold. I don't plan on it.
 

Halla74

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When I have contemplated what it would be like that is what stops me from going anywhere near the next step.

Good!

However, I always thought it strange to imagine if atheism was correct.

Total Understanding of the Universe - Science = Spirituality

Science will NEVER describe the Universe in Total

Therefore Spirituality exists, and Aethesim is shite.

The law of conservation of energy states that energy is never destroyed, and that it only changes forms. So, tell me then dear friend, if you were to be cloned perfectly, would you have two states of consciousness? No. Furthermore, if you are alive, and your body does, the amount of elements/compounds in your system's tissues is relatively the same immediately after deat, BUT you have no LIFE, you are not conscious, YOU are ELSEWHERE, because YOU CHANGED FORM.

If it is then even if you did you wouldn't realize anything had happened and so the thought of effecting anyone around you ceases to exist after that threshold.

This is RUBBISH. Just because you are no longer, doesn;t mean your Mother isn't crying her heart out after hearing that her baby boy is dead on the floor of his kitchen after blowing his brains out with a .45 caliber. See how that works? You are no longer, Mommy is devastated. That is SELFISH and RECKLESS behavior. Wait until you have kids. Try and tell me you think its OK for a parent to tuck their kids in bed, and then go blow their brains out, and not provide for them, protect them, love them, and raise them, just because the parent was having a bad time. Not cool, not by me, sorry. I'm not hating, just stating my views.

I don't plan on it.

Good, you're smarter than that, and you have alot to live for, like putting up with my shit here from time to time. :newwink:
 

prplchknz

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I wanted to post a meaningful post here, but all i can come up with is for me it's complicated. which is why i haven't offed myself yet, its just complicated. my own suicide, other people's etc, it's just really confusing and complicated.I'll admit I had a particularly bad night last week and i was really close to hanging myself, but something stopped me. I had the chance but I didn't want to, i felt i needed to but I just didn't want to.
 

tinker683

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Merge if necessary.


I was just wondering what everyone's thoughts on this concept were, I believe I'll start. Don't be shy, I don't want this to be a 'Your heartless because you aren't as dramatically affected by it as I am!'

I know some view it as cowardice and I understand the reasoning behind such a belief, but I don't wish to ignore the reason why someone commits suicide and so I say that the choice is the persons, and if they saw it fit to do so then it was their choice. They are gone and seeing as you can't undo it, to me, it's hard to judge that. I do not have any personal experience with it though so I don't know how I'd truly react to such an occurrence. This is a rather somber topic, I know, but it has been on my mind.

Suicide was a big thing for me back when I was going through my depression. No one around me could understand why I felt the way that I did and I didn't (nor could I) expect them too: They weren't feeling what I was feeling, they weren't dealing with what I was dealing with.

Not that that makes it justified or ok. It is, without a doubt, a selfish act or decision. The problem with the person who is considering it though is that they are so absorbed by their own pain/grief that they can't understand this this too will pass.

If you know someone who is seriously thinking about killing themselves, the only thing you can do is try to offer encouragement/support and to get them to seek professional help.
 

Fidelia

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I lived in a community where suicide was an epidemic. In many cases, one suicide set off several more. Many of the kids I taught had parents who had committed suicide or close relatives. One found his cousin hanging from a tree just outside his granny's house. Another found her dad hanging in a closet after he and her mum had a fight. She was the only other person at home. She was 13. In all cases, it changed their lives forever. I understand how the people experiencing those feelings don't see that it will get better or can't see just how deeply it will affect other people around them, but it truly does. Even now, I have at least one former student a week on Facebook that verbalizes their wish to kill themselves. Last week one with a baby girl tried and fortunately her boyfriend came to her house just in time to save her.

My cousin has a wife with a degenerative disease. She was depressed and decided she was a burden and tried to kill herself, not seeing that leaving two young boys with no mother and my cousin to do it all himself was selfish and short-sighted. After one unsuccessful attempt my cousin's childhood friend just committed suicide a month ago. I think it really shook his wife up to see how deeply he was affected by his friends death, what guilt and sadness it left and what an aching pain from the loss. I don't think she had thought about how her death would have affected all those people. The friend had even done everything he could to make the peopel close to him feel at peace about their last exchange with him, he made sure they were well cared for financially and he even made sure that no one except the police would have to discover or deal with his body, which was considerate in that sense, but still it has changed all of their lives forever.

A childhood friend of mine discovered her brother when she was a teenager - he had shot himself in the basement. Two decades later, she still thinks about it and it affects her every day.

My brother-in-law tried to kill himself on grad night. Fortunately he was unsuccessful, but even now, my sister is afraid to leave him for even a day in case something like that should happen.

Please - if you are ever considering doing this, remember that whether it feels like it or not, there is help out there for you and things will get better. Other people need you and your life is not solely your own to do with as you please. It may just seem like a peaceful escape, that you are tired of fighting, that no one cares, that it is a way to get revenge or to see if anyone did care, but it is selfish and the damage is very far-reaching and very long term. There are more people out there who care than you may realize or be able to feel at this time. Don't rob the world of the good you could have left in it or the changes for good that you could effect. The worst will pass and things will look different again.
 

Thalassa

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I've known several people who committed suicide. Lots. More than my fair share probably, though fortunately I was only very close to one of them. I would say for three of those people they should have hung in there...if they would have only sought help, got therapy...something.

In the fourth case, I hate to say it, but the woman suffered terribly for many years and so did her family, and in that instance it was more of almost a rational end to suffering.

I'm not pro-suicide or anything and 99% of the time I say that IT IS DEFINITELY NOT THE ANSWER but in extreme cases of suffering, terminal illness, and profoundly horrid circumstances...I also think mercy killing is moral, and I consider that 1% of "rational" suicides moral.

A person has to be in a great deal of pain either way, so I definitely don't judge them.
 

BRMC117

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coming from someone who thought about killing their self everyday for about 4 years I can understand why someone would do it. I was a very weak person, I was in a very weak mental state. nothing seemed to be a positive for me. I learned that there was so much to live for, and I found out how to tell the world FUCK YOU! If there is anyone thinking about it, please send me a PM. I know what you are going through...
 

Lark

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It's generally a permanent solution to a temporary problem, never contemplated it myself and I've actively fought to prevent it, word and deed.

My entire philosophy of life involves reverence of life& hope so I cant say it's just a choice like any other.

In fact I got problems with the contemporary non-judgementalism and passive or tacit approval which pervades A LOT of topics like this now.
 

INTP

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its selfish. when you kill yourself you are causing alot of grief to people close to you. my 14 year old(would have turned 15 two weeks ago) cousins kid killed herself last december and it caused alot of grief in my family and in her friends. im pretty sure that she could have found another solution to her temporary problems, if she would have discussed about them with her family and friends.
 

jenocyde

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It's always painful when someone dies, no matter how they die. But calling someone selfish and encouraging them to live only to make other people happy is the worst kind of burden to put on someone.

If my life became unbearable for whatever reason - terminal illness, or severe loss of function - I would totally decide to let it go. To me, quality of life means far more than quantity.

I live on my own terms and I will hopefully die on my own terms, barring any unexpected surprises. Hunter S. Thompson had it right.

But yes, I agree that it is particularly tragic and heartbreaking when a child resorts to those measures because they don't have complete understanding of the temporary nature of most problems or emotions.
 

Queen Kat

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I considered suicide when I was 14. In the end I didn't, because I thought that if I'd do that, everybody I knew except my mom would be happy and start celebrating my death. I didn't want that to happen, so I stayed alive to make sure these people wouldn't get their way, even though I suffered a lot. When I think back, I guess I was right: if I commited suicide, my teachers, the people in my school and their friends would have gotten their way. These people would have been better off without me, and I didn't want that to happen.

I also seem to attract (ex-) suicidal people. I don't know what that is about me, they just seem to think I can support them well. Or it's just because being suicidal is so damn common (at least 1 in 10 of my peers have had suicidal thoughts, from what I've seen around me, and emo culture never even became popular here).

I personally don't think suicide is immoral. I've been suicidal myself and I've seen many peers kill themselves for all kinds of different reasons (one of them was a drug dealer who got in serious trouble and did it impulsively, one of them had mental problems all of his life and the pills he got had the wrong effect and one of them did it for an unknown reason). Most of the time these people have so much trouble going on in their minds, that their survival instinct simply doesn't work anymore. They don't have any control over it. I don't think you can judge people on things they don't have control over.
 
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Ginkgo

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Please - if you are ever considering doing this, remember that whether it feels like it or not, there is help out there for you and things will get better. Other people need you and your life is not solely your own to do with as you please. It may just seem like a peaceful escape, that you are tired of fighting, that no one cares, that it is a way to get revenge or to see if anyone did care, but it is selfish and the damage is very far-reaching and very long term. There are more people out there who care than you may realize or be able to feel at this time. Don't rob the world of the good you could have left in it or the changes for good that you could effect. The worst will pass and things will look different again.

I agree. I think suicide is immoral because it disrupts the lives of those around you and it's cowardly. It's not as though you're disappearing without a trace. It sets of chain reactions. In fact, depression alone can be like a disease that hops from one host to the next, moving from one cluster to the next. Suicide just compounds others' situations. Quite selfish, especially since one can't take responsibility for committing suicide once the deed is done.
 

Saslou

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I can see both sides of the coin on this one.

I was suicidal at 19 and tried to take my life. I truly believed at that point that by me being out of the equation, my children would have a better chance at life. Hindsight now tells me that although my personal suffering would of ended, my children would of continued suffering and that wouldn't of been fair on them.

If someone does not have any family though or an illness that may make them a burden on someone else then i am all for euthanasia.

This too shall pass with the help of a good psychiatrist.

In the case of depression though although more accepted these days, the idea of drugging people with pills and not addressing the issues is diabolical. I have clients who are long term sick, depressed, seeking help and still seem to attach themselves to the depression instead of the depression being an illness that that has attached itself to the being.
Ultimately you are not your illness.
 
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ReflecTcelfeR

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I appreciate all the responses. I will get to them all very soon. Church now.
 

Amethyst

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Many times people who try and commit suicide because of severe depression fail to see much more than the nightmares inside of them, and for any sort of depression suicide is never the way out. If you try hard enough, you can find the light again.

For some instances though, I would understand why someone would choose to take that route, say, if they're terminally ill, don't want to suffer anymore, are being a financial burden on their family for staying alive, it's better for the whole family, since they no longer have to watch that person suffer. If you being dead or not is for the better of everyone,including yourself, then I would be okay with it. This, however does not apply to those who are depressed and think this way, for they need psychological help ASAP...and good help. I've seen several shrinks of all kinds, not one of them were helpful. In fact, they just pissed me off more, because they couldn't understand what I was going through because they all treated depression like it was some sort of generic disease that could easily be treated for everyone who had it with Prozac. That's not the case, depression can be caused differently in every single person, so don't treat it like the fucking cold.

I don't agree that it's a selfish thing though. A lot of times in the mind of a suicidal person, they see it the opposite, as in 'They'd be better off without me', in which case they interpret the act of suicide upon themselves as a selfless act, ridding the burden of anyone they might know of their presence. They see the world in an entirely different view, and if you're younger, you have less capacity to handle such emotions and thoughts that you may be more likely to consider suicide as your only option.
 
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