Is body shaming negatively impacting peoples' health

[Grand Admiral Crunch]

I see people building straw men and tearing them down in order to have precisely the argument they felt like having before they elaborately massaged this thread and face-painted their fellow members in order to have it.

I get it. It's what happens here and in online forums everywhere. It's as old as humanity. I'm just super bored af with it today.

Carry on.

I'm sorry you didn't like the thread.

 

[Thalassa]

I see people building straw men and tearing them down in order to have precisely the argument they felt like having before they elaborately massaged this thread and face-painted their fellow members in order to have it.

I get it. It's what happens here and in online forums everywhere. It's as old as humanity. I'm just super bored af with it today.

Carry on.

Is it really that painful for you to use critical thinking skills which depicts this as something other than a black and white oppressor/victim scenario? I could look at Dani Mathers for five seconds and visibly see her perception of her "job" as a woman and for other women is to conform to some Barbie standard. She has implants and I can see her ribs. Her behavior is actually typical among young men. It's internalized misogyny.

Also, people are discussing whether shaming works or not, which is the title of the thread, the thread is about broader concepts that simply saying Dani Mathers did something cruel and illegal. That's not up for debate. Though why she would do it is, especially since the woman she mocked is really just an average 40 year old woman, and not "obese" by any extreme measure, also should tell you something about her psychology.

Furthermore, the "victim" has now gleefully posted a photo of herself in her underwear that her husband took. I mean. ..this issue has layers. Sorry if it wasn't the witch burning you were expecting.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

I see people building straw men and tearing them down in order to have precisely the argument they felt like having before they elaborately massaged this thread and face-painted their fellow members in order to have it.

I get it. It's what happens here and in online forums everywhere. It's as old as humanity. I'm just super bored af with it today.

Carry on.

I'm not sure what you mean by "elaborately massaging the thread and face-painted fellow members to have it."

I think the discussions go hand in hand and at least for myself, happened very organically, considering the subject matter.

I'm not sure what you are frustrated about as this woman's behavior, from what I see in the thread, has no support whatsoever and has been discussed for the most part by the participants in this thread.

People do have different positions on the underlying subject matter of how we view those who don't fit a certain standard (which connects to Dani Mathers) and how we view ourselves and our own struggles within that standard.

Any woman that I know has dealt with this in a personal way and has been affected by it. Some more than others. I'm not sure
these discussions are as...calculated as your post makes them out to be.

On that, I will respectfully disagree. I refuse to shame anyone or validate that as a good way to motivate but simply disagreeing with a black and white mentality of "This good; That bad" is perfectly within the realms of reasonableness and does not equate, in my eyes, to shaming or belittling anyone but making room for nuance.

 

[SD45T-2]

IME if folks have exercise tips and caloric recipes on their Pinterest, then it's not about apathy -- it's about one of many other options, including but not limited to

- They actually DO exercise a lot, and also eat a balanced diet (per @<a href="http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/members/2.html" target="_blank">Ivy</a>), but only ever use Pinterest for caloric recipes (some of my marathon-runner friends only use Pinterest food boards for cheat-day recipes)
- They exercise but don't realize that 75% of weight loss comes from diet, not exercise -- or they don't care, or they aren't overweight and/or aren't unhealthy so it's actually fine
- W/r to diet and/or exercise, they don't actually have enough background knowledge, or community support, to know where and how to begin

In my case -- which, I should clarify, was not about weight loss, but about actually exercising and eating well -- I began with very little physical strength and very little nutritional knowledge. Not to mention, no system to help me learn any of it. Making friends who were physically active, and doing a lot of research on my own, helped with that. But it took a lot of work. If there was ever apathy, it stemmed from confusion and/or hopelessness.

 

[Grand Admiral Crunch]

I see people building straw men and tearing them down in order to have precisely the argument they felt like having before they elaborately massaged this thread and face-painted their fellow members in order to have it.

I get it. It's what happens here and in online forums everywhere. It's as old as humanity. I'm just super bored af with it today.

Carry on.

The discussion was good. It showed how compassionate and caring women can be towards one another, and after this incident, it seems it should be reassuring. Women who had overcome struggles with weight spoke out. If they weren't the embodiment of both women in the story, they could probably relate to the struggles of both.

Anyways, sorry again you didn't like it.

 

[iwakar]

I'm not sure what you mean by "elaborately massaging the thread and face-painted fellow members to have it."

I think the discussions go hand in hand and at least for myself, happened very organically, considering the subject matter.

I'm not sure what you are frustrated about as this woman's behavior, from what I see in the thread, has no support whatsoever and has been discussed for the most part by the participants in this thread.

People do have different positions on the underlying subject matter of how we view those who don't fit a certain standard (which connects to Dani Mathers) and how we view ourselves and our own struggles within that standard.

Any woman that I know has dealt with this in a personal way and has been affected by it. Some more than others. I'm not sure
these discussions are as...calculated as your post makes them out to be.

On that, I will respectfully disagree. I refuse to shame anyone or validate that as a good way to motivate but simply disagreeing with a black and white mentality of "This good; That bad" is perfectly within the realms of reasonableness and does not equate, in my eyes, to shaming or belittling anyone but making room for nuance.

MDP2525, if you don't know what I mean or what I'm frustrated with, I don't how you can disagree with it, nor can I tell what you're disagreeing with exactly...?

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

MDP2525, if you don't know what I mean or what I'm frustrated with, I don't how you can disagree with it, nor can I tell what you're disagreeing with exactly...?

I disagree with you saying it is some kind of calculated agenda being put forth. I don't agree.

Other than that, I'm not sure why you are upset in terms of: I don't know what lens you are viewing all this through that would make you think that.

Hope I clarified that for you.

 

[Eluded_One]

Whether it is negative or positive reinforcement, either can be a successful motive for suitable persons. The latter exudes benevolent inspiration; the former leaves a bad taste in your mouth.

There will always be individuals shaming others to make themselves look better-- it's often the result of ignorance and childishness.

 

[Cloudpatrol]

[MENTION=179]iwakar[/MENTION] [MENTION=2]Ivy[/MENTION] [MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION]

I had the same feeling reading through this thread again that I sometimes experienced as a child. When I would silently observe adult's arguing but felt like if they could just stop: they would see everyone was actually arguing for the same things

I actually think we are all in agreement that Dani Mather's (not going to call her any kind of name cuz i don't know her general person) - in this instance acted deplorably - from both a legal and human standpoint.

When I said that about Pinterest I had specific instances in mind. I explained myself poorly and apologize for that. I was referring to people I know who are pre-diabetic or have other health issues and are enthusiastic re: fitness and post liberally in that arena. But, then also post desserts with huge amounts of sugar, butter...or meals that are laden with cheese and fats.

I said that I am amazed by this, not that I pass judgment. Because I don't. It wasn't until I was an adult, living on my own that I learnt about nutrition. And, it was a life event that really forced it upon me. I "get" that everyone learns things and makes changes in their own time. IF they want. It doesn't make them any less lovely as friends or people.

I DO think [MENTION=2]Ivy[/MENTION] that many people are not aware of the fitness & food dynamic, so a calorie-laden diet can be an obstacle to the things they desire success in. I agree wholeheartedly that moderation is key. Personally, I don't 'cut out' foods. I try to eat cleanly and when I do indulge, moderation is a factor. (As well as fitness to balance things out).

You said "let me tell you a secret" and I agree with that phrasing. Even though it is common sense once you KNOW, many people don't make these connections because of: income, the way they were raised, our society does not praise moderation, fitness takes effort as does food preparation...

I agree [MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION] that apathy is not often a factor. For exactly the reasons you mentioned (thank you for mentioning marathoners as that hadn't even occurred to me). Again, I didn't mean what I said in judgment! Part of why it amazes me is that I too at one time was absolutely clueless in this regard.

I had to literally develop a love for fruits and vegetables, as it did not come naturally at all. And, it's an ongoing thing. When I am tired or stressed it is always easier to do 'easy' meals than to prepare food. But, the rewards are worth it!

I regret that it sounded like I was 'casting aspersions' on people. When it comes to health/diet/fitness: it's something we are all in together & fellow understanding/support = will only benefit each of us.

 

[OrangeAppled]

I think you can always justify your fears if you look hard enough. Perhaps there are individuals or even environments that are not hospitable to those who aren't already in great shape, but there are plenty of other people & environments that are going to be more comfortable emotionally.

Most people working out are focused on their workout and aren't going to make any judgement at all. They too are absorbed in their own thoughts about themselves and worries of how they appear to dissect others.

Even if they do judge in their heads - so what? Letting their pettiness hold you back is almost validating their pettiness. It gives it a significance it should not have. They are ridiculous ones, and it is evident many will see it that way, given the universal shock and appall towards the Playboy model who mocked another gym-goer. Who was the one truly humiliated (and perhaps deservedly so)?

I also agree with the sentiment that things are not so black and white as "shame" or "accept". The Western lifestyle that is seen as normal is pretty messed up in many ways, and it is good to NOT accept that as normal and to fight the tide (which can bring a different kind of shaming.... people may suggest you are "extreme" for not going along with the "norm" of being sedentary and eating bad food in too large proportions). Of course, shame generally doesn't motivate people for the long-run, but acceptance can obscure the real damage of not changing in the long-run too. I also see many people putting all bad feelings down to being "shamed", I suppose so they don't have to face the root of their bad feelings. Sometimes feeling bad is your mind and body's way of telling you that you need to change, for your own good, not to meet unrealistic external standards.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I like outliers

 

[Grand Admiral Crunch]

https://www.drlillianglass.com/body-language-blog/

Toxic Ex Playmate Dani Mathers Body Shames Woman Due to Her Own Flawed Body and Face Issues



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There is a saying that ” when you point the finger at someone, there are three fingers pointing back at you.” So, when ex -Playboy Playmate, Dani Mathers body shamed an innocent woman by taking the woman’s photo while the woman was naked and showering at LA Fitness- a woman who was doing something good for herself like going to the gym and getting fit, it was appalling.

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What kind of person would do this? It is a person who has an overly inflated sense of self, who thinks they are so pretty and look better than others. But truth be told, pretty is as pretty does and Dani Mathers is pretty ugly in terms of her character as far as I am concerned. And further truth be told, deep down to the core of her soul, Dani Mathers most likely does not feel that good about her own flawed areas of her face and body, or she would never have projected her own body shame on to someone else. Because she was able to hide behind the Playboy brand for so long and all the perks that came with it, it masked her true self loathing. Unfortunately for her, millions of people have now seen the truth about Dani Mathers and her life will never be the same as she will be shunned, perhaps forever.It’s starting to happen now as she was fired from her radio gig and she will see that life will become very hard for her to get ahead in life. Some things are forgivable, but this is not one of them because it speaks to her character and to the core of who she is.

I have known so many Playboy Playmates throughout the years.Unfortunately there are those who think much like Dani Mathers. I have worked with so many of them as my clients in my private practice, to help them improve their communication, speaking, and voice skills when they have to do interviews, acting roles, or have to open their mouth in public.

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It is ingrained in them by their fellow Playmates, Hugh Hefner, his staff, and men in general, who look up to the Playboy myth, that these girls are special. Men literally drool over them. I have seen it with my own eyes. They can’t wait to get close to them. Men ask for their autographs on photos and pay these women to write something nice to them. Men will pay a ridiculous amount of money on ebay to purchase their used bras, panties, old shoes, tee shirts, and whatever else these entrepreneurial Playmates are selling online -from porn videos to nude photo shots of them.Others manage to bag suckers who feel that it is honor just to pay their bills, with little or nothing in return. For some men, only a weekly or monthly phone call from the Playmate will do. For other men, a weekly meal will suffice. These smitten men often pay monthly rent, phone bills, wireless services, acting classes, modeling photos, car payments, insurance bills, and even give them a monthly stipend. Others buy them cars, pay for plastic surgery, botox, fillers, makeup, clothes, computers, mobile devices, lavish meals, and trips to exotic places.

Men shower them with gifts, clothes meals, and free travel on a regular basis. This constant attention from so many different men gives these Playmates an attitude – an attitude that they have power (which they do have when they are young and pretty and which they lose as soon as they age) and that they are above anyone else. This spoils so many of them. Doors open for them left and right, like it did for Dani and that spoils them as well. They have the contacts and the Playboy brand that carries many of them pretty far.

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When they are young, many Playmates often feel they can get away with anything and they can. Lots of men line up to date them because they think it is prestigious among their peers to have a Playmate on their arm, date her, or even marry her. The smart Playmates or lucky ones marry well. They find some incredibly wealthy man who supports them in high style for the rest of their life, like Barbie Benton (Hugh Hefner’s ex) did when she married real estate tycoon George Gradow. Others aren’t so lucky or smart as they end up marrying sick fanatics who try to control them, end up abusing them, or even killing them. That is the other extreme and sadly what happened to Playmate Dorothy Stratton.

Many go from one rich boyfriend to another, to keep them in style and pay their expenses. Others may join high end escort services, where they meet top men from politicians to rock stars, A list actors, corporate owners, producers, directors, and even princes. Did you ever wonder how some famous well known guy met his wife , who happened to be a former Playmate? Well now you know. Others may even possibly become high end call girls.

Some of them actually have a charismatic personality and talent like radio host and former View cast member, Jennie McCarthy. The Playboy brand allowed her and others access to people who could help them with their careers. If Kendra Wilkinson or Holly Madison had not been Playmates, appeared with Hef on “The Girls Next Door” reality show, and used their connections, they would never have their own reality shows, highlighted in Vegas, endorsed products, appeared on Dancing With the Stars , married a high profile athlete, or appeared in the tabloids on a daily basis. No one would even know their name.

To keep up the perks that come with being a former Playmate, most know they have to keep up their looks. Otherwise, the reality is that it is over for them. This has happened to a number of former Playmates I know. So those who want to still stay in the game, go to all lengths to make sure their body is thin by getting lipo, ribs removed, fat injected, breast and butt implants, face peels, and lip fillers. And who pays for this when so many of them don’t hold a job, other than an occasional model or acting gig? With so many of these women, especially as they begin to age, it is often the smitten man or many smitten men. In the past they would never give these men the time of day. But now since they are aging and need the upkeep, they will gladly deal with these once shunned men, just because they will pay for different aspects of upkeep for that Playmate image.

So no doubt, Dani Mathers had a lot of perks for being a Playmate. She even had over one million Facebook followers who liked her page. That is a lot of followers, many of whom sang her praises on a daily basis, flattered her ego, and told her how beautiful she looked in the latest photo she posted. She got modeling opportunities and doors opened for her.

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She got a lot of business opportunities to represent certain products because she had so many followers . In fact she hawked her own edible marijuana line to her over a million followers.

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She even had a gig as a radio host, something that may have never happened had she not been a Playmate. But unfortunately for her that radio gig appears to be over.

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All of this fan adulation, open career opportunities, and socializing with celebrities must have gone to her head, just as it has done with so many Playmates of the past I have known. It is no doubt that she most likely really believed that she was above everyone and that any woman who didn’t spend the fortune to have all the cosmetic enhancements or those who were not fellow Playmates, were beneath her. Others were worthless and disgusting in her mind. That is why she essentially wrote that she was disgusted looking at the naked woman in the gym and that her eyes could not unsee what she saw.

All of the perks she was lucky to receive in her life since being a Playmate, clearly didn’t build her character , as she showed little compassion or concern about anyone other than herself. That is why she showed no compassion and felt the necessity to put someone down . Her true character was also revealed when she wrote a letter of apology to the Playmates, and not to the woman she harmed and shamed or to a letter to the the gym, where she most likely got a free membership like other Playmates in the past.
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But if we look closer at Dani, we will see that she does have some body issues of her own that I am sure she is well aware. We all have flaws and none of us is perfection when it comes to our body and face. In fact many of the Playmates you see in the photographs are either airbrushed or photoshopped. They are well made up and well lit and placed in very flattering positions, using the right camera angles.

As someone who knows a great deal about body language and body image and body aesthetics, I will point out Dani Mather’s body and facial flaws, which she is no doubt well aware, which will show you why deep down, she may have felt so badly about herself that he felt so compelled to trash someone else’s body.

For one, Dani’s body is out of proportion. Her arms appear too skinny in contrast to her breasts. Her hips are too large in relation to her breasts and her legs.

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She is also very boney in appearance if you look at her back. It is not attractive and makes her look fragile. Her breast implants don’t look natural.

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Her breast implants leave a lot be desired as they seem to just have been just placed on her chest. In fact, her cleavage looks odd and indented as she is too thin and boney to have such a large sized cup. There are also unattractive moles on her chest and abdomen area. In my view, she needs to get them removed now or they will grow much larger as she ages and will look unsightly. Additionally, her arms look skeletal and odd, especially in this photo.In my view it is not sexy or attractive.

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Here is another photo of her skeletal arms and legs which seem incongruous to her breast implants.

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Her buttocks are flat, misshapen and bony, and she suffers from swayback where there is too much curvature in her lower spine. Without makeup you can also see that he skin tone appears to be rather pasty.

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Her abdominal area is misshapen and it looks as though she may have had some bad liposuction or bad body sculpting. You can see her hip bones, but there is fat protrusion around the hip area which is odd. The lower area of her stomach also protrudes.In my viwe this does not look attractive. Also her arms appear too thin and th boney elbows make them look out of proportion.

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Overall, her body proportions look off as she appears to be high waisted. Her knees als look knobby and bony. In looking at her photo in comparison with other Playmates, she appears to be one of the shortest Playmates in stature, which would eliminate her chances of becoming a model. Perhaps her lack of height also contributes to her low self esteem.

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Facially she is out of proportion as well ,with a wide based, troll- looking , ski jump nose ala Richard Nixon style. The columela of her nose droops down too much in relation to her nostrils, which is not perfection as far as nose aesthetics is concerned. Her smile is also not that attractive with prominent chin and masculine appearing jawline. The indented lines on her face under her cheeks are too deep and seem to age her For an almost 30 year old, these lines are a bit too deep.

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She also has an abnormally large and wide mouth which seems to take up most of her face when she smiles or laughs as you can see which makes her face seem out of proportion.

No doubt, she must be well aware of her own her body imperfections which were pointed out above. The illustration of her body flaws are not done to be mean, but rather to show you what she may also be seeing on a subconscious level when she is alone and naked and looking into the mirror at herself.

On a surface level, she has convinced herself that she looks great and is flawless. This is is why she openly posts the flawed photos of herself. It is as though she is in denial. In addition, there are so many followers, fans and smitten male worshipers telling her she looks great, that a part of her has come to believe she looks great. But deep down, probably knows better. Otherwise, she would have never body shamed the innocent woman. In shaming the woman,she projected her own self loathe on to this woman.

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The tone of her voice was equally as troubling when she made her public non heartfelt phony apology. It was not an apology to the innocent woman, but rather a statement insisting she’s not like that and she won’t do it again. It was pure selfishness and narcissism at it’s peak. It was ALL about her and not about the other woman she shamed and harmed. There was not an ounce of sincerity on her facial expression or in her tone.

Dani said she was Snapchatting and wasn’t familiar with how Snapchat worked. Once again, it was about her, not the woman she shamed. She said she was Snapchatting to a personal friend when she wrote “ If Can’t Unsee This You Can’t Either.” What kind of person makes fun of another person and sends it to a friend? A TOXIC BULLY does this. A TOXIC MEAN GIRL does this. This video she made added fuel to the fire and angered people more because they knew it was phony and non heartfelt.

Dani Mathers revealed her true character. She is Toxic Person. I know a thing or two aboyt Toxic People having written the best selling book on the topic. She is not a good person because no good person would think of shaming or bullying another innocent person and make fun of them. There are some things which cannot ever be forgiven and this is one of them in my book.

She has not only hurt this innocent woman, she has hurt other women who wake up each day not feeling good about their bodies. She hurt women who do whatever it takes to get themselves to the gym to try and help their bodies. She hurt every woman who is uncomfortable seeing herself naked. She hurt every woman who has been teased and humiliated about her weight.

Apparently LA Fitness was having none of this and did the right thing by calling the police and reporting her. But the police may not be able to do anything about it unless the woman comes forth and presses charges. I hope this is the case. I hope that the woman sticks up for herself and fights back. I pray that she doesn’t retreat into herself, become depressed and devastated by what has happened to her. I hope the woman seeks financial remuneration for her emotional distress that this horrible incident will have caused. With her million followers and edible marijuana business, Dani may very well be able to afford the lawsuit filed against her. It would case any woman emotional distress. In fact, it has caused most women who found out what Dani Mathers did to this woman, emotional distress.

 

[Ivy]

It's shameful, the pressure we put on young women. Even the ones who seem to meet the strict criteria are practically vivisected in front of the world. And god forbid they ever get a little tummy, even just a temporary one from a burrito- they'll end up on the Enquirer with a "baby bump."

 

[prplchknz]

i remember when i would complain about not feeling well in vent people would be like are you pregnant? and it's like no i'm not pregnant GDI so now i don't complain outside of my blog about not feeling well. everytime a female is sick does not mean she's pregnant maybe i should start asking men if they don't feel well if it's an std.

 

[Tilt]

Body Language Blog - Dr. Lillian Glass

I felt rather mixed about the article. Although what Dani Mathers did was cruel, I viewed the piece as body shaming in its own right. I think Mathers is physically pretty/cute in her own way but hard-pressed to ever call her beautiful or gorgeous.

But then again, people tend to want to knock others off their pedestals.

 

[Ivy]

I thought [MENTION=21203]Grand Admiral Crunch[/MENTION] posted that article as an example of the scrutiny women with "ideal" bodies are subjected to, not as an endorsement of it. It was a pretty shitty article.

 

[Tilt]

I thought [MENTION=21203]Grand Admiral Crunch[/MENTION] posted that article as an example of the scrutiny women with "ideal" bodies are subjected to, not as an endorsement of it. It was a pretty shitty article.

Good point. To clarify, I didn't think [MENTION=21203]Grand Admiral Crunch[/MENTION] was endorsing it, necessarily. The first part seemed to have a thought-provoking analysis (similar to what [MENTION=6877]Thalassa[/MENTION] was implying) but then it went downhill from there. The extent of the criticism that the author spewed made me feel disheartened. I am sure many women have been guilty of it to some degree. I know I have privately knocked people down whom I thought had vile personalities... I know it doesn't make it much better.

 

[Ivy]

As part of my eating disorder treatment I've learned not to critique other people's bodies. You'd be surprised how much it can help you accept your own.

 

[magpie]

Having a naked pic of you taken without your consent isn't just body shaming, it's a violation of your right to privacy and by extension, a violation of your body itself.

On a different note, people have a really weird idea of what healthy should look like. Since I've started feeling better (aka getting healthier) I've gained 20 pounds. I feel super self conscious a lot of the time because my tummy sticks out a bit when it didn't used to. But I'm not nauseated. I don't feel sick any time I attempt to eat even half a can of soup. I'm well enough to be active for long periods of time. In other words, I'm healthy enough to gain weight and that is so good. I don't want to feel bad about my body when it's basically a privilege for me to not look emaciated.

 

[ceecee]

My daughter is thin and gets body shamed sometimes too. I don't support any kind of body shaming, regardless of the body type being shamed. I do support making positive healthy habits, even if they don't result in a change in body type.

Ours is too - tall (5'11) and thin (maybe 115). She is athletic (swimmer, track) and strong but it's not the ideal body. I figure if you get regular exercise, eat a reasonable diet, get enough sleep - you're doing fine.