[...] a process that is imperative for me to go through to deepen my own understanding of such matters. [...]
Hi PB,
I've already said that I see Jaguar's "Reference Guides" as fairly accurate reflections of Fe and Fi in their own way. I'll try to spell out why they work for me, and then maybe we can clarify or refine precisely where our differences lie.
First, a couple of starting assumptions:
1) As Proteanmix noted in the other thread, the original descriptions were nine pages long for each function. Jaguar has condensed them to a little less than a page, and now we're arguing over just one section of that page, about 10 lines for each of the functions. So potentially there's a lot of context missing: Are we talking about how the functions are experienced by the individual, or how they are perceived by the outer world? Are we talking about perceptions of Fi-Dom and Fe-Dom, or perceptions of Fi-Aux and Fe-Aux? And so on.
http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36941&p=1387434&viewfull=1#post1387434
2) Still, I don't mind contrasting the two 10-line sections that you focused on: the short sections titled "Paraphrased descriptions of what it's like to make decisions through one's Introverted/Extroverted Feeling" from Jaguar's original "Reference Guides." So let's call these short 10-line sections the "Decision-making Lists"
3) However, for clarity I would like to look at how these two "Decision-making Lists" are experienced
solely by Fi-Doms (INFP and ISFP)
and Fe-Doms (ENFJ and ESFJ). I want to leave aside the folks who have Fi and Fe as Auxiliaries because I tend to think that a function is experienced a little differently when it's in the Auxiliary position. I could explain that in more detail in another post, and it might make an interesting thread on another occasion. But for now, let me just say that it will make the argument simpler and clearer if we just look solely at the Doms for now.
4) Also, PB, I think it's important to note that these two "Decision-making Lists"
are not lists of core values. Rather, they
are rules for how the two cognitive functions work. In other words, here's how those two "Decision-making Lists" are supposed to operate:
--For Fe: You take a core value like "I believe in the death penalty" or a core value like "I believe in abortion on demand" and you plug it into the "Decision-making List" for Fe, and you get a read-out of how an Fe-Dom will demonstrate or reflect that core value (i.e., how the Fe-Dom will deal with a conversation about the death penalty or whatever) when in society (let's say, in a crowd at a party).
--For Fi: You take a core value like "I believe in the death penalty" or a core value like "I believe in abortion on demand" and you plug it into the "Decision-making List" for Fi, and you get a read-out of how an Fi-Dom will demonstrate or reflect his opinion on the death penalty (the core value) when in a crowd at a party.
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Okay, given those four assumptions, here is why I think the two "Decision-making Lists" are appropriate:
Fe-Dom: To me, Fe-Doms (ENFJ and ESFJ) are the Eveready Bunnies of Hospitality and Goodwill. If you're at any party or social gathering, there will always be an area of good conversation and agreement around them. If it means glossing over and ignoring differences of opinions and values in order to maintain the peace, they'll happily do that. What comes first is maintaining peace and order.
Now, I'm sure I'll receive some protests that there are plenty of times when Fe-Doms become shrill or demanding or manipulative. But generally Fe-Doms do those things in order to corral straying malcontents and push them back in line. In other words, even their worst moods are still about maintaining peace and order.
Fi-Dom: To me, Fi-Doms (INFP and ISFP) spend much of their lives teetering on a ledge: Am I a bad person if I do this thing? Should I speak up and risk making enemies? My boss is strongly and vocally pro-life, and I simply can't be around people like that--do I hide my pro-choice sympathies from him, or should I just quit my job now and be done with it?
INFPs are always fighting inner battles of good vs. evil, and they lose as often as they win. Externally, the bad times shows up as defensiveness, brittle tempers, ill-hidden stress, and a propensity to walk away from inconvenient interactions or relationships. I know that there are plenty of INFP who see themselves as people-pleasers and who might be able to mimic Fe-Doms to some extent. But anyone who posted and spent any amount of time at INFP-gc can vouch for the blow-ups, the brittleness, and walking-on-eggshells vibe at that site.
I'm not saying that we can't be warm and humble and all that. We have those things in us too. But we're not the Eveready Bunnies of Hospitality and Goodwill. We're guided more by internal dictates than by a need to maintain peace and order. In a shoot-out, we'll happily chuck peace and order right out the window.
The "Decision-making List" for Fe-Dom: For me personally, as an INFP and an Fi-Dom, I feel that there's no way that the list for Fe-Dom pertains to me. It's all about responding to people and keeping the peace--it's a list for Eveready Bunnies of Hospitality and Goodwill. Frankly, I see Fe-Dom as kind of dreary and even masochistic: Everything personal has to be pushed aside and glossed over in order to maintain order and keep the peace. The Fe-Dom list is a set of imperatives for automatons. (I'm overstating the case, of course, but hopefully you see where I'm going with this.)
In other words, if I hold the core value "I believe in the death penalty" and I plug it into the Fe-Dom "Decision-making List," it's clear what the outcome will be: Gloss over the differences, change the subject, keep the peace, and maintain an aura of hospitality and goodwill at all costs. That kind of mentality is, frankly, foreign to me.
The "Decision-making List" for Fi-Dom: As an INFP and an Fi-Dom, when I read the "Decision-making List" for Fi-Dom I say, "Aha! Here I am!" If I'm walking through a party with a controversial opinion at the top of my mind because of some hot death penalty debate in the newspapers lately, then I'll be ducking and dodging. I'm walking a tightrope. My Ne is dying to engage with someone on the issue, and at the same time my value is so personal and deeply held that I fear any push-back from the other person will cause me to lose it. I'm wrestling between burying my opinion so deep no one will ever find it except me, on the one hand, versus going up to someone who holds the exact opposite opinion and getting in their face and showing them the folly of everything they stand for. (I'm overstating the case again, but hopefully you see where I'm going with this.)
In other words, if I hold the core value "I believe in the death penalty" and I plug it into the Fi-Dom "Decision-making List," it's clear that the outcome is anything but definite. I may keep the peace and figure it's no one's business but mine; or I may get so disgusted at hearing people around me taking the other side of the issue that I end up drinking too much, getting in a fight with my best friend over the issue, stomping away disgusted, and resolving never to see him ever again.
Thus, to me, the Fi-Dom "Decision-making List" is right on the mark. It's not a description of Eveready Bunnies of Hospitality and Goodwill. It's a description of tormented souls in the grip of existential debate ... or maybe it's just a description of drama queens teetering on the edge of hysterical outbursts.
Call it what you want, but that's a lot closer to the real me than the "Decision-making List" for Fe-Doms.
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Again, hopefully everyone will understand that I simultaneously overstated and oversimplified my points, to make the distinctions ultra-clear. A little hyperbole goes a long way.
)
