[INTP] INTPs and always wanting to be right. Normal?

[Scorquendo]

...and I mean normal as in consistent with other INTPs, since normality is a relatively "relative" word to us

Maybe this is just a rational thing, but I'm not sure if this applies to other INTPs specifically, but I, myself, have this admittedly bad quality of always wanting to be right in any argument, almost to a pathological sense. A recent example was flaming on the internet, but this time letting the argument run for pages after pages, even though logically, this would do nothing in the long run to help me since it goes on endlessly - I have been forum clean(besides this one) for almost a month now and feel much better.

However, this doesn't end here, when I hear something spoken absolutely devoid of logic between friends or family, it really, and I mean REALLY bothers me enough that I more often than not, say something to them and an argument will ensue. Arguing with an ISFJ is the worst since at their worst, they have no objective criteria and cannot fight tete-et-tete in terms of abstract concepts, and end up just yelling.

But a lot of the things that make me angry are little things like a friend's gf inferring creationists views at a dinner table and completely wanting to lay waste to them, or someone trying to size me by being pedantic about my work on purpose. Lately, I've been trying to bottle up these needs, but I think that's really unhealthy.

Picking and choosing battles is something I am trying to relay in the coming new year, but it annoys/irritates the HELL out of me if someone is going to go around thinking they are right and insulting my intelligence.

 

[Spamtar]

I am not so obtuse as to think I am "right" in my world views for everybody else in this world. If this happened most would be unhappy. But can feel they are "right" for me; and often envision this imaginary VIP utopia where my values reign supreme.

 

[Oeufa]

Nah, I'm happy to admit when I don't know a lot about a given topic, or when I'm wrong about something. I could be passionately arguing one point, but if someone were to point out something to me that I hadn't considered that changed my entire POV, then I'll change easily enough. Nothing's set in stone with me, and I enjoy hearing other people's opinions and experiences. If it's a piece of trivia though, and I know I'm correct, I won't back down until the other person admits they don't know what they're talking about and that I'm right.

When it comes to religious beliefs, I'm a "live and let live" sort of person: so long as no-one's forcing their views on me I'll leave them alone. Sure, we can discuss our views if they come up in conversation, but it's perfectly possible to debate without saying, "You're wrong, and here's why..." You simply can't do that with something like religious views.

 

[IZthe411]

ENTP bud is very good at admitting when his view is 'wrong'. He puts a good fight for it, though, asking questions and putting spins on things that may take me back for a minute. Even when his view is corrected I feel that my view has been adjusted as well. It's a good exchange.

 

[Red Herring]

Nah, I'm happy to admit when I don't know a lot about a given topic, or when I'm wrong about something. I could be passionately arguing one point, but if someone were to point out something to me that I hadn't considered that changed my entire POV, then I'll change easily enough. Nothing's set in stone with me, and I enjoy hearing other people's opinions and experiences. If it's a piece of trivia though, and I know I'm correct, I won't back down until the other person admits they don't know what they're talking about and that I'm right.

When it comes to religious beliefs, I'm a "live and let live" sort of person: so long as no-one's forcing their views on me I'll leave them alone. Sure, we can discuss our views if they come up in conversation, but it's perfectly possible to debate without saying, "You're wrong, and here's why..." You simply can't do that with something like religious views.

This.
Getting to the core of a problem/learning new facts is more important than winning an argument. Plus you can really take the wind out of somebody's sails when you say "Okay, you might actually have a point there/I didn't know that/will look into that, but what about x then? How would that play out?"

Winning an argument with the help of eristic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eristic) can be fun once in a while, but it is ultimately unfulfilling and feels like cheating.
I hate it when sincere debates turn into pissing contests. What about the process of joint discovery? The older I get the less I care about correcting or even attacking people just to pamper my own ego. That reminds me of high school student debates, not really my cup of tea. I have an almost pathological tendency to see both sides of every story. So even when I come to a conclusion (or opinion), I respect people who gave the counter arguments more weight than I did as long as they recognize the existence of my arguments.

What bothered you about the conversation on creationism? That she contradicted your views or that she did it badyl (i.e. incoherently, using logical fallacies, etc.)? Getting a stomach ache when people use the Chewbacca defense should be normal INTP behavior. Feeling superior to the rest of the world and wanting to win an argument for the sake of winning less so, sounds rather age/hormone related to me.

 

[Spamtar]

I am not so obtuse as to think I am "right" in my world views for everybody else in this world. If this happened most would be unhappy. But can feel they are "right" for me; and often envision this imaginary VIP utopia where my values reign supreme.

Ugg INTPc just came to mind. So except for me...in my Utopia other INTPs would not be allowed except via limited invite.

 

[Accept]

I'm not sure it's an issue about being right. Sometimes it's that the other individual is obviously wrong. The worst are the people who claim to want an answer, but will continue to add conditions when the answer isn't what they wanted to hear. What they really want is support and endorsement of an idea they refuse to surrender to facts.

Sometimes I stick to a point because I already know the other person can provide interesting alternatives which, when they do, provides the information I may have overlooked. Yet I have found it encourages me to continue in the hope of learning more from that person. It may take a day or two to digest their ideas, but I enjoy admitting I was wrong when I've been offered new insight. It's also fun to learn another person has a different viewpoint and that neither one of us is wrong.

"Dayna Mellanby: Don't you get tired of always being right?
Kerr Avon: Only with the rest of you always being wrong."
(Blake's 7)

I've always thought Avon's response summed it up nicely since I've been asked the same thing by a number of people, except I dislike being told I'm always right - that's highly improbable and therefore, unacceptable.

 

[rav3n]

My opinion is that any type can get stubborn when they believe they're right. Attack what an INTP believes to be a tested and true framework and they won't budge. Disrespect an ENTJ and look out.

 

[Scorquendo]

When it comes to religious beliefs, I'm a "live and let live" sort of person: so long as no-one's forcing their views on me I'll leave them alone. Sure, we can discuss our views if they come up in conversation, but it's perfectly possible to debate without saying, "You're wrong, and here's why..." You simply can't do that with something like religious views.

I am actually very "whatever works" in regards to all religions and philosophies, but at that point it was being "forced" which I had forgot to mention. But going back to that, these are little things that bother me enough to want to correct them, even though it would mean to argue.

What bothered you about the conversation on creationism? That she contradicted your views or that she did it badyl (i.e. incoherently, using logical fallacies, etc.)? Getting a stomach ache when people use the Chewbacca defense should be normal INTP behavior. Feeling superior to the rest of the world and wanting to win an argument for the sake of winning less so, sounds rather age/hormone related to me.

Badly, as in "I'm right and anyone who disagrees with me is wrong" badly. It just irritates me when people are speaking haphazardly and irresponsibly like that. I don't want to be right so I feel superior, but to enlighten them if they are clearly talking out of their arse.

If I personally don't know anything about a subject, I am completely open and polite on learning more about it.

 

[Spamtar]

My opinion is that any type can get stubborn when they believe they're right. Attack what an INTP believes to be a tested and true framework and they won't budge. Disrespect an ENTJ and look out.

Although INTPs often will not budge on an frontal attack on such a frame often...such attacks nevertheless inspire the INTP to consider inefficiencies in the flanking and re-frame based on their "own" design.

 

[rav3n]

Although INTPs often will not budge on an frontal attack on such a frame often...such attacks nevertheless inspire the INTP to consider inefficiencies in the flanking and re-frame based on their "own" design.

Important emphasis on "own", which includes on their "own" time and way.

But yes, frontal assault will get their backs up. And for that matter, no type likes to be assaulted or cornered.

 

[Lucas]

I want to be right in the sense that I want my beliefs to be true. Because of this I tend to welcome assaults on what I currently hold true as they allow me to explore those beliefs further and either reject or confirm them. Because of that desire to be right, if I find my current beliefs to be illogical, then I will discard them.

I think the difference between the two conceptions of right is that one is trying to prove the universe aligns with your beliefs, and the other is trying to align your beliefs with the universe.

 

[Such Irony]

I don't need to be right- I am quite welcoming of other perspectives. What I'm not so welcoming of is when someone tells me I'm wrong in such a manner that it totally exposes my ignorance and illogicality, making me look like an incompetent idiot.

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

I enjoy it when I'm proven wrong (no conceit intended). Usually when I am wrong, I keep pushing my argument just a little more to see if they have thought the topic through, if they were just lucky I want us both to learn. I used to hate being wrong too. I still love like being right, but I let them know that I welcome the change. My love for debate though takes over sometimes and I will change up the argument to see how universally appliable their thoughts are, then if we need to when can adjust both of our ideas. If we won't ever agree I usually point that out, tell them I probably won't, but their beliefs are their own and I move on from the last point that we did agree on and go with a new hypothetical to take us down a new path.

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

INTP is not the one trying to be right _in my own experience.
Maybe because I naturally feel friendly with them and love to make them at ease and have fun with them.
In my own space and time shy people don't get a rough time around me as they can seem quite vulnerable (at least on the surface). Also INTP is not trying to judge, the ones I know until now are rather open-minded, whatever reserved they may be.

I think INTJ and ENTJ try much more to be right

 

[Ozzy]

My brother is an INTP and an ass..he seems to take more joy in trying to convince me why I was originally wrong than he is in being "right."

 

[Jade Heart]

I like... no, I revere being right, but I can just as easily admit I'm wrong if I'm wrong. To me, it's all a part of learning and growing in this world where adaptation is a valuable asset to yourself and a relief on others.

 

[INTP]

I dont think its that much about wanting to be right(even tho it might seem like it), but more like if you are wrong, the INTPs nature of trying to correct false information kicks in and wants you to see where you are wrong. I think INTPs generally are open to be proven wrong(because of the want for false information to be corrected), but if you cant argue your point a pointless argument might arise.

[MENTION=22064]ExNinjaTropPervertie[/MENTION] i agree, NTJs(females maybe less often and ofc not all males) are more likely trying to be right just so that everyone(or maybe not just others but themselves as well) would think that they are always right for some ego boost or what ever, while not considering that much what the other person tries to say or even considering whether they actually are right or not. I think its some undeveloped Fi thing.

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

Right, lack of Fi. But when they start feeling lonely because nobody applauses their ideas or prove there are other ways to look at the world,

they'll probably reflect about listening to others (and trusting them) a bit more

Why should women NTJ should try to be right more than men ? :whew: IS there something to do with penisneid ?

 

[Red Herring]

Why should women NTJ should try to be right more than men ? :whew: IS there something to do with penisneid ?

On the contrary, he said females might be LESS likely to show this behavior. The idea is that women are under greater social pressure to be nice and that therefor NT women tend to be more agreeable than their male counterparts.