INTJ or INFP? Something else?

[aHuman]

Okay so around 90% of tests I've taken say that I am an INTJ. I don't know how accurate this is, and taking more tests is not useful by now because I know what each answer would give me.

Basically, the reason I think I may not be an INTJ is because I do have emotions and I'm not in denial about having them, and I actually care about people's feelings in some situations, which is almost the opposite of the descriptions.

This has lead me to INFP. The reason for that is I know I am definitely an Fi more than Fe. However, I don't know how accurate that is either. I am open to considering other types as well, hopefully the following will be enough to type me.

I/E
I am pretty sure that I am an introvert. Although I like going outside and talking to people, I'd much rather talk to one person at a time. I am not opposed to large groups, I just don't want to be near them all the time because its tiring. I definitely think before I say anything.

N/S
I don't have a good understanding of this function, but I think that N suits me more than S. I think that rules should only exist if they make sense. It really annoys me if someone tries to enforce rules that are illogical and don't need to exist.

I don't really understand some social norms/rules, particularly gender and fashion norms.

I'd also say that I am pretty creative - I like art and creative writing.

I am often in my head thinking about something else instead of taking in the world around me. Sometimes I like to take a break and only observe the physical world and its sensations, sounds etc. But I have to initiate that usually because most of the day I am in my head.

As I said before, though, I don't have a good understanding of this function so I may be wrong about being an N.

T/F
This is probably the function I am the most confused about. I have been able to deduce that Fi suits me more than Fe, but that is all. A functions test I took told me than I am equal Fi and Te, I don't know how accurate that was.

I have pretty intense feelings. Although I don't enjoy negative feelings, I think that having emotions is a great thing. I am a little bit nihilistic, I don't think that my existence or accomplishments will really matter in the long run, so I think that my experience of this world is the most important thing for me. If I didn't have emotions, I would probably commit suicide because nothing would be stopping me. I try not to ruin anyone else's experience of this world either.

I actually do care about people's feelings, and I would never intentionally hurt someone who I don't dislike. I can usually tell that someone is upset, or at least I think I can.

I don't know whether this is a T of F trait, but if someone is upset at me I want to find out why they are so I can either fix it or just not do anything if there is nothing to fix. It really annoys me when I can tell that someone is upset at me but they don't tell me why, or expect me to know without telling me.

However if someone is upset at something else, I don't usually try to fix it because when I am upset at something I don't usually need advice, and it annoys me when people try to give me advice because it is like they think that I am incompetent or something. If this problem could be so easily fixed, I wouldn't be upset about it.

I usually don't mind when people come to me for emotional support. I mean, if I don't listen to them, they might bottle up their feelings which may lead to self harm or drug abuse if they have no outlet. I want my friends to be happy so I don't mind listening to their problems.

I have empathy, and the only time I don't cry at sad movies is when other people are around.

I think that most people would say that I'm nice. I try not to hurt people if they are my friends. I also express my emotions sometimes, although maybe not very clearly for other people. My mum thinks that I have strange emotional reactions to things. I think this may be an Fi trait. I don't mind talking about my feelings to some extent with people that I trust.

I think that most important decisions should be made using logic, but not all decisions can be made that way. For example, if someone asks you to be their romantic partner, you have to use your feelings because I personally can't control who I have romantic feelings for and no amont of logic will make me have romantic feelings for someone. However, I am not unrealistic in that regard and I think that having romantic feelings for each other is not the only prerequisite for making a relationship work.

Although I may know that some fact is right, when someone states an incorrect fact I might not correct them (although I'd be screaming internally). I don't seem very confident in that regard. When I am arguing about something I know is 100% true, I will probably appear confident, but that is rarely the case because I am usually only 99.9% sure that something is true, and on the off chance that I am wrong I don't want to make myself seem stupid. What doesn't help is that people always appear so confident when arguing about something they don't know anything about. Also arguing about more subjective things that have no right answer that you can easily google is no use because most people don't change their minds and arguing will only make me annoyed because they will try to change my opinion without even considering it although I usually at least try to consider their opinion. I don't know, maybe I don't, but I want to think that I'm nicer than I really am. One of my friends even ignored me for a week after I tried debating with her on a topic. People rarely want to consider the other person's point of view and instead think that I am attacking them, when I am not. I try to avoid conflict. This seems different to INTJs because they seem to be able to confidently debate about things.

I tend to analyze my feelings a lot instead of just taking them in. If I have a feeling for a short period (maybe a few minutes) I will probably not do anything about it, because it probably doesn't mean anything, but if its there for a while I might try to figure out what is causing it. I sometimes don't even realize that I'm feeling something. It took me ages to figure out that I was bi, although in hindsight it is very obvious. Also it is very common for me to feel something but think the opposite. I may have a slight negative reaction to a certain opinion, but I will think "this is more logical so it is right". If the emotional reaction is too intense I usually just try to ignore the topic because obviously I am not in the state to make an unbiased decision. I almost settled on being an INFP, but this doesn't seem to match from my understanding of functions.

I am also very sensitive to what people think of me in some regard. I especially had a problem with embarrassment when i was younger. I don't think that I am an INFJ though, because I definitely don't conform. I just feel a little sad that people don't like me, and then move on because it's not my problem that they are stupid.

I am generally a fun person I think. I don't usually talk or joke much with people that I'm uncomfortable with, but if you get a little closer to me I am usually pretty loud and joke a lot. You know, like most introverts.

So anyway, these are some of the things that are confusing me about whether I would be an F or a T.

J/P
I am not extremely sure which of these I am either. I am leaning towards the J, but if I am an F I should be an FP from my understanding. This is a big thing that makes me doubt being an INFP.

Although I like being organised, my room and desk are pretty messy. Its not that I like it this way, but I am too lazy to clean.

I get really stressed out if I feel like I don't have anything planned. I need to have at least a rough plan in order to do things efficiently. Sometimes I have trouble following that plan completely, but I need to have one in order to do anything because I get really confused and lost if I don't.

So anyway. I hope this is enough information to type me. Would it be possible to be an organized INFP with an internal moral "everything should be logical" that leads all of my Fi? I seem too friendly and sociable to be an INTJ, but for some reason I get it on tests at least 90% of the time.

 

[Punderstorm]

You could be an INFJ...
I see Fe in your descriptions actually, and IxFP's are actually organized externally. Fe is not about external confirmation or social stuff, it's about external organization.

 

[Personality Analyst]

[MENTION=27133]aHuman[/MENTION], A couple of things:

1- Fe & Fi =/= emotions. They are cognitive functions that are concerned with decision-making about values, which are linked to emotions.

2- INTJs do have emotions as does every other human being. I have a strong Fi function, I can be very empathetic and I always try to not harm others. However, what makes me different from feelers is I have an uneasy association with my emotions. I understand their value and have gotten better in dealing with them, but I often feel they get in my way and I cannot fathom how someone having Fi or Fe as a dominant perspective that guides their actions live their day to day lives.

You would never tell from the outside that I have any emotions, people wonder whether I'm an android or not. Inside though, they burn with intensity.

3- Just because INFJs have Fe, it doesn't mean they are conformists. In the case of Fe, it depends on the person's reference group and its values. If they're in an environment that isn't congruent with their reference group they can be plenty rebellious (though possibly not as harshly as Fi-users due to Fe valuing social harmony). Also, don't forget that Fe is the INFJ's auxiliary function, which is the servant to dominant Ni and often grants a unique perspective that differs from the norm.

That being said, I think you should look into INFJ more and see if that fits you.

 

[aHuman]

Thank you for your feedback, I'll look into the INFJ stuff.

I'm a little confused about the difference between the way T and F users make decisions though. Is it the same but T users leave emotions as a factor out of the picture? Or is it that T users just don't use emotions to make the decision?

When I am considering what is right or wrong, I usually try to weigh both sides and see which one is beneficial. Once, though, someone was telling me about how banning abortions was bad and I pictured a teenage girl who can't finish her school education and is forced to live with one stupid decision she made and I felt sad for her and I though "hmm this person is right", which really weirded me out because that is not what I usually do. Usually, I would weigh the pros and cons or something like that. I have no idea what I do when making very unimportant everyday decisions though, since that most likely happens subconsciously.

I think that I might consider peoples emotions as a factor in some situations though. I would find it very difficult to fire people if I was in that position.

Thanks for your help.

 

[Punderstorm]

Thank you for your feedback, I'll look into the INFJ stuff.

I'm a little confused about the difference between the way T and F users make decisions though. Is it the same but T users leave emotions as a factor out of the picture? Or is it that T users just don't use emotions to make the decision?

When I am considering what is right or wrong, I usually try to weigh both sides and see which one is beneficial. Once, though, someone was telling me about how banning abortions was bad and I pictured a teenage girl who can't finish her school education and is forced to live with one stupid decision she made and I felt sad for her and I though "hmm this person is right", which really weirded me out because that is not what I usually do. Usually, I would weigh the pros and cons or something like that. I have no idea what I do when making very unimportant everyday decisions though, since that most likely happens subconsciously.

I think that I might consider peoples emotions as a factor in some situations though. I would find it very difficult to fire people if I was in that position.

Thanks for your help.

Your way of making decisions sounds very Fe-Ti. The difference between thinking and feeling is that feelers place more emphasis on peoples feelings and reactions, whereas thinkers place more emphasis on the sense and actual benefits of the decision. One can't live without the other, and dichotomies are useless.

 

[aHuman]

Thank you for your help

 

[scatterbrain]

Okay so around 90% of tests I've taken say that I am an INTJ. I don't know how accurate this is, and taking more tests is not useful by now because I know what each answer would give me.

Basically, the reason I think I may not be an INTJ is because I do have emotions and I'm not in denial about having them, and I actually care about people's feelings in some situations, which is almost the opposite of the descriptions.

This has lead me to INFP. The reason for that is I know I am definitely an Fi more than Fe. However, I don't know how accurate that is either. I am open to considering other types as well, hopefully the following will be enough to type me.

I/E
I am pretty sure that I am an introvert. Although I like going outside and talking to people, I'd much rather talk to one person at a time. I am not opposed to large groups, I just don't want to be near them all the time because its tiring. I definitely think before I say anything.

N/S
I don't have a good understanding of this function, but I think that N suits me more than S. I think that rules should only exist if they make sense. It really annoys me if someone tries to enforce rules that are illogical and don't need to exist.

I don't really understand some social norms/rules, particularly gender and fashion norms.

I'd also say that I am pretty creative - I like art and creative writing.

I am often in my head thinking about something else instead of taking in the world around me. Sometimes I like to take a break and only observe the physical world and its sensations, sounds etc. But I have to initiate that usually because most of the day I am in my head.

As I said before, though, I don't have a good understanding of this function so I may be wrong about being an N.

T/F
This is probably the function I am the most confused about. I have been able to deduce that Fi suits me more than Fe, but that is all. A functions test I took told me than I am equal Fi and Te, I don't know how accurate that was.

I have pretty intense feelings. Although I don't enjoy negative feelings, I think that having emotions is a great thing. I am a little bit nihilistic, I don't think that my existence or accomplishments will really matter in the long run, so I think that my experience of this world is the most important thing for me. If I didn't have emotions, I would probably commit suicide because nothing would be stopping me. I try not to ruin anyone else's experience of this world either.

I actually do care about people's feelings, and I would never intentionally hurt someone who I don't dislike. I can usually tell that someone is upset, or at least I think I can.

I don't know whether this is a T of F trait, but if someone is upset at me I want to find out why they are so I can either fix it or just not do anything if there is nothing to fix. It really annoys me when I can tell that someone is upset at me but they don't tell me why, or expect me to know without telling me.

However if someone is upset at something else, I don't usually try to fix it because when I am upset at something I don't usually need advice, and it annoys me when people try to give me advice because it is like they think that I am incompetent or something. If this problem could be so easily fixed, I wouldn't be upset about it.

I usually don't mind when people come to me for emotional support. I mean, if I don't listen to them, they might bottle up their feelings which may lead to self harm or drug abuse if they have no outlet. I want my friends to be happy so I don't mind listening to their problems.

I have empathy, and the only time I don't cry at sad movies is when other people are around.

I think that most people would say that I'm nice. I try not to hurt people if they are my friends. I also express my emotions sometimes, although maybe not very clearly for other people. My mum thinks that I have strange emotional reactions to things. I think this may be an Fi trait. I don't mind talking about my feelings to some extent with people that I trust.

I think that most important decisions should be made using logic, but not all decisions can be made that way. For example, if someone asks you to be their romantic partner, you have to use your feelings because I personally can't control who I have romantic feelings for and no amont of logic will make me have romantic feelings for someone. However, I am not unrealistic in that regard and I think that having romantic feelings for each other is not the only prerequisite for making a relationship work.

Although I may know that some fact is right, when someone states an incorrect fact I might not correct them (although I'd be screaming internally). I don't seem very confident in that regard. When I am arguing about something I know is 100% true, I will probably appear confident, but that is rarely the case because I am usually only 99.9% sure that something is true, and on the off chance that I am wrong I don't want to make myself seem stupid. What doesn't help is that people always appear so confident when arguing about something they don't know anything about. Also arguing about more subjective things that have no right answer that you can easily google is no use because most people don't change their minds and arguing will only make me annoyed because they will try to change my opinion without even considering it although I usually at least try to consider their opinion. I don't know, maybe I don't, but I want to think that I'm nicer than I really am. One of my friends even ignored me for a week after I tried debating with her on a topic. People rarely want to consider the other person's point of view and instead think that I am attacking them, when I am not. I try to avoid conflict. This seems different to INTJs because they seem to be able to confidently debate about things.

I tend to analyze my feelings a lot instead of just taking them in. If I have a feeling for a short period (maybe a few minutes) I will probably not do anything about it, because it probably doesn't mean anything, but if its there for a while I might try to figure out what is causing it. I sometimes don't even realize that I'm feeling something. It took me ages to figure out that I was bi, although in hindsight it is very obvious. Also it is very common for me to feel something but think the opposite. I may have a slight negative reaction to a certain opinion, but I will think "this is more logical so it is right". If the emotional reaction is too intense I usually just try to ignore the topic because obviously I am not in the state to make an unbiased decision. I almost settled on being an INFP, but this doesn't seem to match from my understanding of functions.

I am also very sensitive to what people think of me in some regard. I especially had a problem with embarrassment when i was younger. I don't think that I am an INFJ though, because I definitely don't conform. I just feel a little sad that people don't like me, and then move on because it's not my problem that they are stupid.

I am generally a fun person I think. I don't usually talk or joke much with people that I'm uncomfortable with, but if you get a little closer to me I am usually pretty loud and joke a lot. You know, like most introverts.

So anyway, these are some of the things that are confusing me about whether I would be an F or a T.

J/P
I am not extremely sure which of these I am either. I am leaning towards the J, but if I am an F I should be an FP from my understanding. This is a big thing that makes me doubt being an INFP.

Although I like being organised, my room and desk are pretty messy. Its not that I like it this way, but I am too lazy to clean.

I get really stressed out if I feel like I don't have anything planned. I need to have at least a rough plan in order to do things efficiently. Sometimes I have trouble following that plan completely, but I need to have one in order to do anything because I get really confused and lost if I don't.

So anyway. I hope this is enough information to type me. Would it be possible to be an organized INFP with an internal moral "everything should be logical" that leads all of my Fi? I seem too friendly and sociable to be an INTJ, but for some reason I get it on tests at least 90% of the time.

Hi there, I saw you finally settled for INFJ, could you share what finally convinced you that you are an INFJ instead of an INFP or INTJ?

Because I was actually having the same problem myself, ie. having difficulties determining whether I am an INFP with a relatively high Te or an INTJ with a strong Fi (http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/what-s-my-type-/83818-infp-intj-stuck-ni-fi-loop.html). And I can totally relate to EVERYTHING you wrote above. What made you sure in the end that you use Fe instead of Fi, and Ti instead of Te? How did you tell apart Fe from having an Fi which values compassion towards other people? For me personally though, I still have values that don't necessarily relate to people's feelings, eg. I don't agree with genetic engineering and the use of animals for lab experiments despite being able to understand the benefits, to the extent that I changed my field just because of that. And I gravitate more to fellow Fi people (ENFPs, INTJs) as I find communicating with some Fe types frustrating (ESTP, ISFJ, ESFJ) despite some being my close friends because I find them caring too much about what people think of them. I do care about how people perceive me to a certain extent, but if that demands me doing something against my will then I don't mind being a misfit.

Thanks in advance! Your answer would be really helpful for me!

 

[aHuman]

To be honest, I am still not completely sure. I also agree with a few values that don't necessarily relate to people's feelings, but I don't know, the feeling function just seems subconscious to me. For example, if I don't think about something too much I actually consider people's feelings in a lot of situations, which is why I am usually nice to people. Although if I sit down and think about something, I think I probably use a lot of Ti because I consciously choose to if that makes sense. Also, although he hasn't really been tested or anything, I am pretty sure that my dad is an INTP and we have similar personalities in a way, which would make sense if you look at the functions, but I am more organized than my dad. Alternatively I might be wrong about both of us maybe I should look into INTP.

Good luck with finding your type, sorry if I wasnt more help, haha. If you have any more information on this, please tell me because I am still open to considering other types

 

[scatterbrain]

Hi [MENTION=27133]aHuman[/MENTION], thanks for replying again

Perhaps some of these resources could help you determine your type, if you haven't read it:
http : // www . personalityhacker . com /intp-vs-intj/
http : // www . personalityhacker . com /infp-vs-infj/

The articles explains quite well about the misconception that INTJs are emotionless (actually, they're pretty sensitive--they're just afraid of getting hurt and so some tends to show a tough exterior), and generally INTPs are more out of touch of their feelings because Fe is in the inferior position.

It also explains the difference between “absorbing” (Fe) and “mirroring” (Fi) emotions. If you're an Fi user like me, you see other's emotions through your own lenses, ie. putting yourself in their shoes ("If I were in her position what would I feel"). Whereas Fe is more like "Your pain is in my heart, I feel it the way you do". From your description, you seem more likely to be an Fi user because you said:

However if someone is upset at something else, I don't usually try to fix it because when I am upset at something I don't usually need advice, and it annoys me when people try to give me advice because it is like they think that I am incompetent or something. If this problem could be so easily fixed, I wouldn't be upset about it.

You are seeing it through your own experience in the past. From one of the articles:

They (INFPs) can manufacture an emotional experience in order to test out what it would feel like, giving them more content to go on at game time.

Since Authenticity (Fi) is their Driver process, this ability becomes unconscious competence for INFPs and they may not even register when they’re doing it. This is why Authenticity Drivers (INFPs and ISFPs) are easily the greatest actors and performers of all the types. Putting on a new emotion can be as easy as swapping jackets.

When in the presence of another person’s strong emotion, it’s not that the INFP is absorbing it, they’re mirroring it. Since this is exceptionally easy for them to do, it’s usually a surprise to discover that other people can’t even come close to this ability.

The nuance of their ability to mirror another person’s emotional experience can feel like absorbing since it’s so spot on. But, remember – this isn’t another person’s emotion in the INFP’s heart. This is years and years of the INFP mapping emotions within themselves and finding the closest proximity to what the other person is experiencing.

And the following may be a sign of Ni:

Also arguing about more subjective things that have no right answer that you can easily google is no use because most people don't change their minds and arguing will only make me annoyed because they will try to change my opinion without even considering it although I usually at least try to consider their opinion.

From the article:

An INTP is constantly scanning for the cleanest data possible because they can’t actually show proof for their conclusions. Accuracy is by definition a subjective criteria: “it makes sense to me.” There is always some insecurity about others invalidating their arguments and conclusions, but instead of staying in the realm of ‘hurt’ (as an INFP may), the easiest solution is to just assume everyone else is an idiot.

Harboring insecurities is just another way for indicating immaturity, and an immature INTP will show up as The Authority On All Subjects, assuming they are right and you are wrong. When an INTP is accused of arrogance, it’s generally because they have a growing pathology toward being ‘right’ at all times.

For an INTJ, there is little to no insecurity about being ‘right’. If you don’t agree with them they might debate with you about it, but ultimately they understand that perception defines reality and you may just be seeing things fundamentally differently. Ultimately, the proof is in Effectiveness, and you’ll see how wrong you are when the outer world plays it all out.

The insecurity an INTJ faces is more of a ‘well guarded secret’. INTJs are surprisingly sensitive, and as mentioned in our article about the INTJ personality type, anyone they let in can do real damage.

The insecurity lies in just how amazingly vulnerable they are to others. For a hardcore Thinker, it’s incredibly disconcerting for the INTJ to realize they are wired to be sensitive without the benefit of commensurate (natural) emotional intelligence.

If you’re trying to determine your type between INTP and INTJ ask yourself: are you more put-off by being wrong, or by being vulnerable?

I see it this way, for INTP there is only one truth that makes sense to him. For INTJ there is only one truth, but there may be different ways of interpreting it.

Although I like being organised, my room and desk are pretty messy. Its not that I like it this way, but I am too lazy to clean.

More from the article about INTJs:

As mentioned before, the INTJ is leading with Introverted Intuition (Perspectives) which is technically a ‘perceiving’ process. That means their flow state is learning and thinking creative thoughts.

Organizing their outer world is absolutely preferential as the more organized things are the more they can mitigate distractions and stay Perspectiving, so to speak.

But that means getting out of Perspectives to go organize, and sometimes that’s about as unappealing as an idea gets.

They also couple Perspectives with Effectiveness (Te), a process that naturally thinks in terms of delegation. I’ve known INTJs that wished someone would just come along and organize their space for them, but until that happened they were merely going to shut off sensory awareness and not acknowledge the disaster around them.

When an INTJ exercises the Effectiveness process this is less likely to be the case, but even then ‘cleaning and organizing’ has to be considered a high leverage activity. Which it may or may not be.

A final point on appearance:

An INTP – having Harmony (Fe) as their 3 Yr Old process – has an exceptionally easy time of just not giving a rat’s ass about how they appear to others. Actually, more accurately, they don’t give a rat’s ass if they’re socially acceptable. They may care how they come across, but that’s generally to send a message of not caring. For the INTP, status is a game other people play, and dressing up just to suit others almost feels icky.

For an INTJ, on the other hand, status is a resource. And resource is always on the radar of Effectiveness. Playing a status game doesn’t feel ‘icky’, it feels like a necessary part of life. And it’s not so much that they dress for high status, but that they understand just a little effort goes a long way.

And since you mentioned you have a hard time deciding whether you use mostly T or F in decision-making, I would argue that you might be an INTJ because Te (aux) and Fi (tert) are closer together in the functional stack compared to INTP (Ti dom & Fe inf). After all, that's also what you got from most of your tests The F/T confusion may also be affected by the way you were brought up, maybe you were in an environment were F played an important role. I was born and raised in a culture where F meant more than T; plus I'm a woman so there's even more pressure to use F instead of T at least in social situations. But still, take all this with a grain of salt because you would know yourself better than me, of course! Good luck with your search!

 

[aHuman]

Thank you for your help! I think you might be right about me being an Fi user. Just yesterday, I was feeling kinda tired so I wasn't in the mood to socialize, and when my friend came up to talk to me I think I came off as annoyed (although I still talked to him because we were walking the same way and there wasn't a way for me to stop talking to him without being completely rude) and later during the day I felt bad about it because I remembered how my friend was annoyed when I talked to her and it made me feel like she doesn't like me or something, and I didn't want to make my friend feel like that.

The "how was I brought up" point is interesting. I'll have to think about that.

Now the challenge is to decide whether I use Fi or Te more, haha. I'll look into the difference between Ne and Ni. Thank you for your help!

 

[scatterbrain]

Now the challenge is to decide whether I use Fi or Te more, haha. I'll look into the difference between Ne and Ni. Thank you for your help!

You're welcome and good luck! I'm also at the same stage (ie. Deciding Fi/Te and Ne/Ni)

Although someone who replied to my thread in another forum also suggested to look at how one's inferior function manifests (ie. Inferior Te vs inferior Se) to help decide.