[INFP] INFP's, inadequate compared to ENFP's?

[Scott N Denver]

General question for anybody: how frequently, or perhaps non-frequently, are INFP's grounded or grounding for others? I have been for like most of my life, as many people have told me, but I've also done lots of yoga, martial arts, outdoorsy time, and spent most of my life around the military. So I'm not exactly anybody's "stereotypical INFP"! I've also had the often-not-privilege of having Te "take precedence over everything else", so I'm almost certainly far more Te-capable than many other INFP's. I'm also very well-connected and "tame" in my Ne and its application. I do feel less NF-y than mnay other NF's though, and definitely much less NFP-y than most other NFP's.

Part of what I so like about ENFP's is that they really "put out there" and "let it all hang out there" stuff that so many things in my life taught me "were not socially appropriate." Anti-Fi, anti-Ne, attitudes, pro "squared away STJ-ness." ENFP's are like "healers" for me, showing me ways to "put it all [Fi, Ne] out there, and have it be socially acceptable." That and/or they show me "not to [care] if other people dont appreciate having Fi and Ne put it out there and to do it anyways."

 

[Scott N Denver]

Aw damn. I've broken down and am getting ready to read this entire thread. I'll be back soon.

its uhh, its rather long...

I started it all. I posted somewhere later on why I started the thread, and debated whether to include said content in my first entry or not. In the interest of time, and not further upsetting myself, I elected not to. I think that got the thread very mis-interpreted for quite some time. I think we have largely figured things out and settle down now though.

 

[skylights]

I don't use Fi to prioritize - that's Si, meaning I struggle with it too, just less than an ENFP. Just some clarification... Si prioritizing looks like valuation to people though, and why Fi gets misunderstood, IMO (people think it's like SiJe, probably due to mistyped e9 Si-dom; I prefer to think of Ji as creating judgement concepts as opposed to applying judgement like Je). The idea of INFPs being grounded is bizarre to me. Don't relate to it. I tend to pursue what's important to me - and that doesn't just mean "interests" or "likes" - and perhaps this looks self-disciplined at times. Prioritizing in terms of tasks is hard for me. Head starts to spin and I end up doing nothing. Probably better at it than most ENFPs though, true. I think if you're looking to learn there, an xSTJ is a better road map. [...]

Perceptions in here from ENFPs use words like "grounded" for INFPs. I've never once had this feedback in person or anything close to it. This to me is a perception from ENFPs, but not really an accurate picture of INFPs if you survey many people of varying types & get an overview of how they're viewed IRL as individuals.

I mean prioritization in terms of what you value, not task prioritization. It can be a huge challenge for me to choose which thing I value more when presented with two options that seem equally engaging. INFPs don't seem to experience this as much.

Following that, I mean grounded in the sense that INFPs are very aware of what they value.

 

[AaminaFlower]

INFP's, do you ever feel inadequate compared to ENFP's?

non-INFP's, do you often see INFP's as inadequate compared to ENFP's?

Personally, I don't feel like ENFP's are quite as warm and gooey as we are, but they do a tremendously more effective job of communicating their warm gooeyness to the rest of the world than we do. I think much of the rest of the world is not "interested in depth" enough to find out how warm and gooey we are. So yes, I sometimes feel inadequate when compared to ENFP's.

Inadequate? Not unless I stop trying AND you want trouble. We are warmer than a flannel duvet over goose down.

 

[Amargith]

I second [MENTION=10496]skylights[/MENTION] on the groundedness issue

We need to jump about and flit around first and visit all angles before we can settle down on what we believe, making us often seem flaky and unreliable to others, as we are still making up our minds. And this can make people very irritated and nervous.

The calm, grounded confidence that INFPs have on knowing what they want and who they are (even if they cant get it executed) tends to rub off on others, ime.

 

[freeeekyyy]

General question for anybody: how frequently, or perhaps non-frequently, are INFP's grounded or grounding for others? I have been for like most of my life, as many people have told me, but I've also done lots of yoga, martial arts, outdoorsy time, and spent most of my life around the military. So I'm not exactly anybody's "stereotypical INFP"! I've also had the often-not-privilege of having Te "take precedence over everything else", so I'm almost certainly far more Te-capable than many other INFP's. I'm also very well-connected and "tame" in my Ne and its application. I do feel less NF-y than mnay other NF's though, and definitely much less NFP-y than most other NFP's.

Part of what I so like about ENFP's is that they really "put out there" and "let it all hang out there" stuff that so many things in my life taught me "were not socially appropriate." Anti-Fi, anti-Ne, attitudes, pro "squared away STJ-ness." ENFP's are like "healers" for me, showing me ways to "put it all [Fi, Ne] out there, and have it be socially acceptable." That and/or they show me "not to [care] if other people dont appreciate having Fi and Ne put it out there and to do it anyways."

INFPs definitely seem more grounded and less "in the clouds" than ENFPs. I think it's both less pervasive Ne and on the flipside of that, stronger Si. INFPs are much more reliable than ENFPs. ENFPs seem incredibly forgetful, even of people and things that are very important to them. INFPs are more reliable, but also less tolerant of others' unreliability. I think that has to do with the stronger Fi.

 

[Esoteric Wench]

OK. I've read about half of this thread so far. I wanted to take a break and share an observation about some of the frustrations expressed earlier in this thread:

From the perspective of an ENFP with fairly well-developed Te, INFPs (with their inferior Te) can sometimes seem to spin their wheels... and this can be very frustrating. Te is all about coming up with a concrete, logically sequential plan on how to get from point A to point B, then taking bold action to see that plan through. INFPs can certainly do this, too, but - in general - they don't do it as readily as ENFPs do. (Again, we see the difference between tertiary Te and inferior Te.)

It seems to me like there might be a little of this "Te frustration" going on in this thread. For example, @skylights made the remark (and I'm loosely paraphrasing here here), that her posts weren't impacting the thread very much and this was frustrating for her. Well, I hear a lot of Te frustration in what she said. Te needs to feel like it's going somewhere... like it's getting something accomplished. It seems to me that skylights was feeling frustrated (and skylights, feel free to correct me if I'm misinterpreting you here) because she wasn't seeing that her posts were making any headway.

By the same token, I saw a lot of INFP use of Si in response to skylight's posts. As I understand it, Si is about storing data and information, then comparing and contrasting the current situation with similar ones. Si revels in such analysis. And the INFPs posting in this thread would read what skylights posted and use their Si to analyze what she was saying (Si)... but not necessarily change their behavior (Te).

^^^^
I only bring up the above observation because I wanted to relate it to the original post in this thread which, in essence, asked how INFPs and ENFPs are different (or at least this is what I think @Scott N Denver was getting at). Te versus Si. INFPs and ENFPs have a lot in common, but I think this can be a sizable divide between INFPs and ENFPs.

I'd love to hear some INFP / Si perspective on this. Maybe I'm completely off, but the tertiary Te versus tertiary Si thing seems pretty important to me and worthy of some discussion. (BTW, I think it's INFPs' Si that makes them seem grounding.)

 

[OrangeAppled]

INFPs definitely seem more grounded and less "in the clouds" than ENFPs. I think it's both less pervasive Ne and on the flipside of that, stronger Si. INFPs are much more reliable than ENFPs. ENFPs seem incredibly forgetful, even of people and things that are very important to them. INFPs are more reliable, but also less tolerant of others' unreliability. I think that has to do with the stronger Fi.

I was thinking more in terms of demeanor - who is more "present". ENFPs seem more in-touch with what's "going on". I guess that is my idea of grounded.

I agree with that summation [MENTION=8904]Esoteric Wench[/MENTION]. I don't think this thread was meant to go anywhere, from an INFP's perspective. I notice ENFPs want quicker closure on topics, but then will rehash again. For an INFP, it's more like thorough examination til exhaustion, then a more final closure.

 

[freeeekyyy]

I was thinking more in terms of demeanor - who is more "present". ENFPs seem more in-touch with what's "going on". I guess that is my idea of grounded.

They do seem that way, but I've specifically asked certain ENFPs about that before, and have gotten the answer that they really aren't as aware as they seem. That seems accurate too. There are certain things about people's behavior that they just don't get; some ways that they're less aware than a typical INTJ even. INFPs don't seem to have quite the same level of cluelessness in this way. They're more certain of both themselves and the people around them. ENFPs are in constant flux. In the way I understand the word to mean, they are easily the least grounded personality type of all. ENTPs are close, but being primarily thinkers makes them seem a little more "real." Both ENFPs and INFPs have their strengths and weaknesses. Instead of wishing you were ENFPs, embrace what you have. INFPs bring their own great qualities to the table, and shouldn't be ashamed of that. I do agree though that ENFPs can be very imposing. Even as a TJ, I've often felt inadequate among some of the ENFPs I've known. Their presence is just so strong, and the way they're able to connect with people is admirable, and I really wish I had more of that ability myself. But what I do have is something unique of its own, and it's not worth giving up for anything else. We all have something to give. Let's quit comparing ourselves to others.

 

[Scott N Denver]

we had our evals at school today. one of my evaluators is an ENFP. She is the one I was thinking of the most when I started this thread.

Me: "I want to speak about [ENFP] some before we get started... I was very impressed by her overall. She is very smart, ske is very knowledgeable, she presents herself well, she speaks well, everyone speaks very highly of her, they are almost glowing with their praise, I'm just waiting for someone to say that she 'walks on water', I've never heard anyone say anything bad about her"
teacher: "I don't think anyone could have anything bad to say about her"
me: "yes, exactly. she definitely had an impact of effect on everyone it seems."
teacher: "yeah, pretty much everyone thinks she is awesome"
me: "yeah, I can totally see that."
teacher: "[ENFP] is beautiful on the inside and the outside, she really is."
me: "yes, yes she is"

I spoke with [ENFP] when she and I said goodbye, and I told her "people speak extremely highly of you, its practically glowing, I'm just waiting for someone to say that you walk on water or something, I've never heard anyone say a bad thing about you. To me thats very impressive, because for example, I definitely can't say that no one has ever had a bad thing to say about me." [various personal thoughts about how INFPs are often viewed by others and how ENFP's often seen much better about "putting themselves out there" and "people 'getting' them and how they are]


me speaking to [ENFP]: "you succeed where I fail"
things said but didnt have time to say: "people look at you and they "get" you, they see what you about, someone like me, I can't even begin to count how many times I've been called "an enigma", or "hard to understand" or "what is that guy about?!?!" or the like.

Other INFP's feel free to chime in from personal experience, and others feel free to chime in with outside perspectives, but I think one of the most common non-strengths of INFP's is not that we somehow lack skills/depth/caring/whatever, but that the way we possess and display such things is not necessarily particularly "immediately obvious and detectable to others." And then other people do "get" us, what we are about, and where we are coming from, and then they think we are like the most awesome thing ever, saintly, too nice, extremely touching, inspirational, or whatever else.

I'm just an outsider looking in here, but I feel that while few people really understand either INFP's or ENFP's, INFP's are often this "mysterious" "alone in the corner" "hard to understand" "deep, maybe too deep for thier own good" whatever, whereas ENFP's might have many of the same interests and goals as INFP's and society may basically truly understand just as little about ENFP's as society understands INFPS but society/groups/whoever will look at ENFP's, not really understand them but go "hey, look how energetic and social and spontaneous and easygoing these people are, we like them!" and even when ENFP's are erratic, moody, all over the place, scattered etc, society seems to give them a free pass because they are easy and fun to be around. Fellow INFP's, how often has anyone ever really told us that we are "fun to be around"? Deep, thoughtful, considerate, kind, insightful, touching, heartwarming etc, absolutely. "Fun to be around", I can't say I've heard that one thrown around about us all that often.

This is more of a personal thought, and quite possibly not generally applicable in this discussion, but personally I find myself forming the comparison between "saint" and "guru." Basically, saints always have to be nice, people see them, people get them, people feel comfortable around them, saints make you feel good about yourself. A guru goes beyond a saint, is bound by extreme ethical considerations, but is not required to "play nice" in the conventional understanding of that concept. A guru is more powerful, deeper, and can "take one further", whereas saints basically make people feel "warm and fuzzy." Most people prefer "warm and fuzzy". ENFP's seem to often be better at being quickly perceived as and acting from "warm and fuzzy", as opposed to the INFP tendency for INFP's to be "deep and intense, and hard to relate to or understand!"


to quickly summarize much of the above:
INFP's: hard to understand
ENFP's: not that other people necessarily understand them either, but they are so energetic and easygoing that people seem to just like them anyways


All NFP's are awesome!

 

[digesthisickness]

I should think that an INFP would be eventually horrified and feel extremely put upon if suddenly the world noticed them the same way as it does the ENFP. Being noticed is a big responsibility and gets tiresome as hell. I could see an INFP, after some time passing, suddenly feeling quite smothered and wishing for some desperately needed privacy and time to themselves to just think/feel. Maybe even coming to the conclusion eventually that it's impossible to trust/truly know who likes them for what quality and why.

It's just as possible to be lonely and feel misunderstood in a crowd.

 

[Scott N Denver]

I should think that an INFP would be eventually horrified and feel extremely put upon if suddenly the world noticed them the same way as it does the ENFP. Being noticed is a big responsibility and gets tiresome as hell. I could see an INFP, after some time passing, suddenly feeling quite smothered and wishing for some desperately needed privacy and time to themselves to just think/feel. Maybe even coming to the conclusion eventually that it's impossible to trust/truly know who likes them for what quality and why.

It's just as possible to be lonely and feel misunderstood in a crowd.

those are all very good points.

 

[digesthisickness]

those are all very good points.

 

[entropie]

I should think that an INFP would be eventually horrified and feel extremely put upon if suddenly the world noticed them the same way as it does the ENFP. Being noticed is a big responsibility and gets tiresome as hell. I could see an INFP, after some time passing, suddenly feeling quite smothered and wishing for some desperately needed privacy and time to themselves to just think/feel. Maybe even coming to the conclusion eventually that it's impossible to trust/truly know who likes them for what quality and why.

It's just as possible to be lonely and feel misunderstood in a crowd.

Nevertheless reserving energy to take on responsibility from time for yourself can ease other lots of worries you could have because you did to little about them. If ever an entp would need to tell you that seriously, you are really deep in the gutter

 

[digesthisickness]

Nevertheless reserving energy to take on responsibility from time for yourself can ease other lots of worries you could have because you did to little about them. If ever an entp would need to tell you that seriously, you are really deep in the gutter

wut?

 

[Dudesowin]

Saint: Aim to get it done right the first time and catch you when you fall.
Guru: Laugh at you when you don't get it done the first time because who can?

Give a man a fish he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and he will eat everyday then probably die of mercury poisoning or improper cooking since that was lesson 2.

INFP are easy to understand its just that people don't probe other people in such ways anymore. Your digital persona is completely contrary to how you are in real life, every feeling that you say is so over analysed. Its a rare spectrum of primordial sophistication that I don't get like Old english boxing etiquette. I suggest using more emoticons they are awesome.

 

[entropie]

wut?

My infp is big on using that "lonely time" she needs, to put off responsibilities she has. That from time does make her quite lazy and unsuccessful in her goals. When the lonely time then passes she starts to come back to reality but then is hurried to reach all the goals she missed before and becomes very badly emotional about her own laziness. This often is a vicious circle for her.

So I meant putting up the teaser that you at time need "lonely time" is perfectly ok, but its no introvert thing alone, everyone needs that. And it shouldnt keep you from at least basically finishing your responsibilities, otherwise this will be a problem for oneself.

 

[Nihon]

I still test as INFP to this day. I type INFP on Internet four dichotomy tests more often than not, but I think it's because they're all a very similar format. My official paid Myers Briggs is INFP. I don't think I type as INFP out of depression, far from it. I'm actually more likely to type with a higher S percentage now, or as ISFP or even ISTP sometimes because of my realization that I am not terribly abstract, I changed a lot of my perceptions of what "abstract" even meant, I initially thought like most people on the Internet, that all Sensors were simpletons who didn't ever read a lot or do "intellectual" things, but that was a long time ago.

I think I'm more likely to get T-ish scores when I'm depressed too because then I feel very cranky about people, and so I'm more likely to get "hates people" scores which are falsely correlated to T traits. Like "I am blunt and direct" because Fs are always supposed to be sunshine and light and endless good manners?

I've just never valued structure or corporate America very much, but I like money very much. I wouldn't compromise certain things for money though; ultimately my free time, ability to enjoy my life, and relationships with others and ability to do what I want have always been the priority, and money is incidental in making that happen, and I've had the fortune to find tangible but sometimes risky or altertnative ways of making it.

Thank you!! Sometimes I think less than 10% who take the MBTI actually bother to try understanding personality theory. It's a wonderful occasion when I come across someone like you who has really done some research and isn't interested in lying to themselves. Everyone thinks they're an NF or an NT even though iNtuitives are the rarest and most difficult to come across. They say "because the test said so" but the accuracy of the test is always based on the test taker's willingness to be honest with themselves. I get sick of everyone lying to themselves all the time. I know that no one wants to say they have trouble understanding really complex things or that they don't catch on right away or whathaveyou, and I know that a lot of people are secretly conceited and don't want to admit to themselves that they're not secretly geniuses that are just misunderstood by their friends. Highly abstracts concepts can be interesting to most people but that . But people need to face reality at least once in their life... let it be about their personality.

You also pointed out that the MBTI falsely correlates T traits with low accommodation and F traits with high levels of accommodation (and pretty much claims that the relationship is totally causal). This is another one of those things that's just silly. For me, it happens to be true, but for my boyfriend, it's completely false. He's definitely a Thinker but he's frighteningly accommodating. People need to understand that saying when someone is wrong or pointing out flaws in a system isn't unaccommodating and - for an INTJ who, Socionically speaking, has almost no understanding of how Se power struggles and societal hierarchies work - it's definitely not meant to be a point of conflict. It's just honesty. A simple discussion about objective truth. INTPs may be more interested in the hierarchies but INTJs actually fear conflict in some cases, just as much as INFJs. The placement of Se in the Id or Ego makes just as much of a difference as T and F do, but that still can't always determine someone's inherent level of accommodation.

You seem like you've really looked into this and know what you're talking about. If you haven't already looked into this, go to sociotype.com. At first (and maybe 20th) glace, it lacks the kid-friendly simplicity of the MBTI. I believe that's the reason it's so much less popular. It takes effort to learn about Sociotypes and understand them. But when you do, it will probably be the most rewarding experience you've had with personality theory for some time. The focus on functions is far greater and that sets it apart from the MBTI in a very positive way. Once you understand how that system works, it feels like you've achieved some kind of transcendence (Depp movie that everyone should watch - the Christian Science Monitor gave it a bad rating because the religious possibilities scare them) of the MBTI that you didn't even know existed.

 

[lecky]

I wish I had their energy and charisma, but I don't feel inadequate around them. Sometimes I feel like they feel uncomfortable around me. I am not sure why, I am usually pretty easy to get along with.

 

[entropie]

I wish I had their energy and charisma, but I don't feel inadequate around them. Sometimes I feel like they feel uncomfortable around me. I am not sure why, I am usually pretty easy to get along with.

Because you show very little social/emotional/at all reaction ?!