[MBTI General] INFJ Compatibility - Why the INFJ/ENTP dynamic is hands down the best.

[cafe]

Wow. You guys can be cold...

I prefer to think of it as pragmatism and self-preservation, but cold works, too.

 

[cafe]

Fully agree, it's one of the main causes for the damage and hurt I have seen them cause others and one of my biggest fears in dating them. I have seen INFJs stay in relationships they weren't happy or even miserable in for 2, 3, 5 years which is unhealthy for everybody. I'm not actually certain what the motive is for not leaving, dragging things out and causing damage to the other person with knowing it's over yet not leaving yet I know this is a common issue. Maybe it's a struggle to speak up for their own needs, a fear of disappointing others, I'm not sure but it's there and a huge source of damage they cause yet seem oblivious to.

INFJs seem to have weird processing issues when it comes to emotions. For myself, first I have to notice a pattern, then I have to figure out what specifically is triggering the emotion. Once I've got that sorted out, I have to try modifying my own behavior to see if I can change the dynamic. I have to feel like I've run experiments using every reasonable possibility and it takes me awhile to feel like I haven't missed anything. Then I would have to decide whether my life and/or that of my children would be significantly improved by ending the relationship. If it would not and I believe I can endure whatever it is that's bothering me for the foreseeable future without undue hardship, I will.

There was a time in my marriage, about nine years into it, when I ran through the above protocol and it was an even tie but for one thing: I knew I would be celibate for an extended time if I left him and I did not much care for that idea. Things got better a few years later and have been good ever since, so I'm really glad I stayed with him. Of course, the issue was never whether or not I liked and loved him. That's never been in question.

I get it, I have a really amazing INTP friend that's with an INFJ, they seem to be a good match for each other in so many ways, they're really good together. I however have no comprehension what their dynamic is like when they're with strangers as I'm on the inside.

Between myself and the INFJ I was with we have 6 kids, really pretty easy as I am not too far from a child myself so I could take a whole posse of kids and keep them entertained however, it can get overwhelming to say that least but on the parenting front when we had all of the kids in tow things were typically really balanced and enjoyable. I actually think having a lack of space bothered me far more than it bothered her.

Hmmm. There wouldn't be an advantage there, then. I mean, not that we normally had fun wrangling the kids. We did it pretty well, but it exhausted both of us. We all survived and the kids seem reasonably well-adjusted, so I call it a win, but I very much enjoy the kids being older and more self-sufficient. It's been good for our marriage, too.

 

[FemMecha]

Fully agree, it's one of the main causes for the damage and hurt I have seen them cause others and one of my biggest fears in dating them. I have seen INFJs stay in relationships they weren't happy or even miserable in for 2, 3, 5 years which is unhealthy for everybody. I'm not actually certain what the motive is for not leaving, dragging things out and causing damage to the other person with knowing it's over yet not leaving yet I know this is a common issue. Maybe it's a struggle to speak up for their own needs, a fear of disappointing others, I'm not sure but it's there and a huge source of damage they cause yet seem oblivious to.

I'd like to come back when I have more time to comment on this, but a couple issues for INFJs in particular is that part of their identity is in making sense of the inner world of other people. The Ni constructs a global sense of the patterns and Fe is outward focused on the subjective world of others' perception. To fail in making a connection, to fail in communication is more troubling to their world view. Just look at that horrible thread about "what INFJs do that drive you nuts". Look at the effort way beyond the call of duty that our INFJs put into that thread. In the past I would have done it as well, but have had to learn to protect myself earlier on in the process.

When faced with a complex scenario of relationship, the INFJ attention will tend to have most of their energy focused on solving the relationship problem and can become completely unfocused to their own needs and feelings. I've certainly lost all sense of my own feelings and needs when trying to resolve conflicts. It is why they have to retreat to think alone because their empathy and focus on others confuses their own thoughts and feelings too much.

So losing a sense of self (personal needs) combined with an identity and ethic of resolving relationship conflicts to a sense of peace, it is difficult for the INFJ to identity their extent of their unhappiness and to admit failure in creating peace with someone terribly important to them.

 

[Society]

why not ENFJs who are a lot more apt to push down Ni's assertion when these come into conflict with consideration? after all, being Fe dom is certainly not in the common trick bag of the average ENTP, and couldn't the act of being judging first rather then perceiving first be in itself a counter balance? alternatively, why not consider the common suggestion of soviet typology of going for ISFJs, our perfect functional opposites? wouldn't there be a wealth of growth to contribute to one another in someone so strong in our weakest points and vise versa? what about us taking the Fe edge by it's whiskers, and enjoying the magic of NiSe with NeSi with a well developed ISTP, even providing more challenge in the occasional Ti duel, and rarely giving a shit of who forgot the socks in the drier? in the most stressful of relationship conflicts, another thinker would certainly be nice. and if the ENTP is up for challenges, what about the challenge of Fi & Te? INTJ/ENTP dynamics are known to be hit or miss, why not combine the occasional hit with kiss? or maybe a power couple in the form of a well rounded ENTJ, someone to conquer a little slice of the world with?

the term "best" demands a comparison with those it is better with, so let's have it. why would an INFJ be a better fit for an ENTP then any of those, or any of the others? the notion of "because of balance" seems exceptionally selective about what dimensions of each other a couple is best for balancing out.

 

[1487610420]

INFJs seem to have weird processing issues when it comes to emotions. For myself, first I have to notice a pattern, then I have to figure out what specifically is triggering the emotion. Once I've got that sorted out, I have to try modifying my own behavior to see if I can change the dynamic. I have to feel like I've run experiments using every reasonable possibility and it takes me awhile to feel like I haven't missed anything. Then I would have to decide whether my life and/or that of my children would be significantly improved by ending the relationship. If it would not and I believe I can endure whatever it is that's bothering me for the foreseeable future without undue hardship, I will.

There was a time in my marriage, about nine years into it, when I ran through the above protocol and it was an even tie but for one thing: I knew I would be celibate for an extended time if I left him and I did not much care for that idea. Things got better a few years later and have been good ever since, so I'm really glad I stayed with him. Of course, the issue was never whether or not I liked and loved him. That's never been in question.

The above and the thread discussion brings this brings TED talk research to mind

Synthetic Happiness vs. Natural Happiness

 

[cafe]

The above and the thread discussion brings this brings TED talk research to mind

Synthetic Happiness vs. Natural Happiness

I like that one. And I'm not saying that isn't the case, but there are several factors that I was aware of at the time, that I now know in retrospect that I didn't know before, and things that developed in ways I didn't expect that indicate, to me, it was a good decision.

Consider that I was a thirty year old woman of average looks and no college degree and little work experience with four children between the ages of two and eight. As a single mother, life would have been sucky for us all. Marrying someone else would have been my best way to anything like a comfortable life. My prospects for finding a better and better off partner were pretty darn low. My husband was gone a lot for work, making little money, and withdrawn when he came home. He wasn't physically or verbally abusing me, just kind of leaving me out to dry because he couldn't cope. He wasn't unfaithful or drinking or gambling. What money he made went to taking care of us. We didn't argue. The sex wasn't super frequent, but it was good.

Looking back, we basically just bit off more than we could chew and we were both struggling to deal with it. It would have likely been the same with anyone I was with in those circumstances.

A few years later he got a better job, the kids were all in school all day and viola! our marriage improved dramatically.

Our kids were going to get older whether I was with their dad, single or with someone else. That I would earn more as a single mom in the same time period than my husband ended up making more is highly unlikely. I could have theoretically got with a man making similar money or better money, also unlikely, but possible. But then we would have all the issues that go along with having a blended family.

I don't have those with my kids' dad: no step-parent dynamics, not sorting out visitation, no child-support issues. That stuff can negatively impact a marriage.

Now, as the TED talk indicates, I likely would have adjusted to the circumstances and been a similar degree of happy, but my circumstances would likely not have materially improved. So at the very least it's a toss-up and, having had step-parents, that's enough to make me glad I stayed.

 

[EcK]

I like that one. And I'm not saying that isn't the case, but there are several factors that I was aware of at the time, that I now know in retrospect that I didn't know before, and things that developed in ways I didn't expect that indicate, to me, it was a good decision.

Consider that I was a thirty year old woman of average looks and no college degree and little work experience with four children between the ages of two and eight. As a single mother, life would have been sucky for us all. Marrying someone else would have been my best way to anything like a comfortable life. My prospects for finding a better and better off partner were pretty darn low. My husband was gone a lot for work, making little money, and withdrawn when he came home. He wasn't physically or verbally abusing me, just kind of leaving me out to dry because he couldn't cope. He wasn't unfaithful or drinking or gambling. What money he made went to taking care of us. We didn't argue. The sex wasn't super frequent, but it was good.

Looking back, we basically just bit off more than we could chew and we were both struggling to deal with it. It would have likely been the same with anyone I was with in those circumstances.

A few years later he got a better job, the kids were all in school all day and viola! our marriage improved dramatically.

Our kids were going to get older whether I was with their dad, single or with someone else. That I would earn more as a single mom in the same time period than my husband ended up making more is highly unlikely. I could have theoretically got with a man making similar money or better money, also unlikely, but possible. But then we would have all the issues that go along with having a blended family.

I don't have those with my kids' dad: no step-parent dynamics, not sorting out visitation, no child-support issues. That stuff can negatively impact a marriage.

Now, as the TED talk indicates, I likely would have adjusted to the circumstances and been a similar degree of happy, but my circumstances would likely not have materially improved. So at the very least it's a toss-up and, having had step-parents, that's enough to make me glad I stayed.

I dont know why, but that kind of logic applied to one's life, while it is something i do everyday for everything else, absolutly horrifies me when it comes to friends or romantic relationships.

Morover, pretty much nothing horrifies me, so that makes it particularly interesting.

 

[EcK]

mmh . i dont know guys.

In my case I am particularly vulnerable to infjs overall, whether friends or romantic interests.
But I can't really afford to be vulnerable. it breaks me, and it can take me years to pick up the pieces. As a risk taker when it comes to things that have potential to redefine my life I find most people do not share the same risk taking pattern, it is disappointing. I for example changed countries, cultures etc. at a moments notice. Stepping into a plane about 3 days after deciding, and deciding in less than a minute, and I can explain exactly why I made that choice. It was rational but the trick to me is stress management. I do not really, experience stress, if i do it probably equivates to a total mental breakdown curled up in a ball and moaning for your average stress prone infj.

Correct me if wrong, but overall infjs are a very stressed type, (stress is a word I use rather than a real experience for me), they stress, then overanalyse, go into loops, hang onto the answer they find, the answer brings actionable relief, relief is needed, stress is feared, the answer become truth.

While it's very understandable, I'm just not willing to deal with that kind of utter bullshit in my personal life.

so all that to say that except if I lived 1000 years i'd probably never be ready to be so vulnerable to someone ever again. Then again im a risk taker, so. mhhh.

You guys have fun keeping that thread alive.

 

[1487610420]

I like that one. And I'm not saying that isn't the case, but there are several factors that I was aware of at the time, that I now know in retrospect that I didn't know before, and things that developed in ways I didn't expect that indicate, to me, it was a good decision.

Consider that I was a thirty year old woman of average looks and no college degree and little work experience with four children between the ages of two and eight. As a single mother, life would have been sucky for us all. Marrying someone else would have been my best way to anything like a comfortable life. My prospects for finding a better and better off partner were pretty darn low. My husband was gone a lot for work, making little money, and withdrawn when he came home. He wasn't physically or verbally abusing me, just kind of leaving me out to dry because he couldn't cope. He wasn't unfaithful or drinking or gambling. What money he made went to taking care of us. We didn't argue. The sex wasn't super frequent, but it was good.

Looking back, we basically just bit off more than we could chew and we were both struggling to deal with it. It would have likely been the same with anyone I was with in those circumstances.

A few years later he got a better job, the kids were all in school all day and viola! our marriage improved dramatically.

Our kids were going to get older whether I was with their dad, single or with someone else. That I would earn more as a single mom in the same time period than my husband ended up making more is highly unlikely. I could have theoretically got with a man making similar money or better money, also unlikely, but possible. But then we would have all the issues that go along with having a blended family.

I don't have those with my kids' dad: no step-parent dynamics, not sorting out visitation, no child-support issues. That stuff can negatively impact a marriage.

Now, as the TED talk indicates, I likely would have adjusted to the circumstances and been a similar degree of happy, but my circumstances would likely not have materially improved. So at the very least it's a toss-up and, having had step-parents, that's enough to make me glad I stayed.

I'm not/wasn't in your shoes to question/judge your resolve, which naturally was a culmination of your thought process/life experience/expectations/fears/etc, and that's also not the point here, either. If anything, I'd speculate any reasoning now, will be like monday morning quarterbacking, just reinforcing what the TED video sheds light about.

Regardless, I think it provides, as pointed out, an often [always?] neglected pov that plays a big role in the sort of pitfall dynamics that have been discussed in this thread, but not restricted to the specific MTBI pairing.

 

[FemMecha]

I dont know why, but that kind of logic applied to one's life, while it is something i do everyday for everything else, absolutly horrifies me when it comes to friends or romantic relationships.

Morover, pretty much nothing horrifies me, so that makes it particularly interesting.

Can you elaborate what horrifies you about the reasoning? Also are you still young enough to be looking forward to a life and partner that is different from parents and other role models you have seen? Raw pragmatism is more common in people middle-aged than those still young enough to be idealistic. A person can certainly remain idealistic throughout life, but I think it is rare for idealism to remain as pure throughout life as it is as a young adult. Her post sounds a lot like many people of many types who have been married longer than a decade, have struggled with finances and health, and who have children.

Whether it is work or relationships, most people end up stuck, even trapped in circumstances that are much different than they had hoped for in their lives. I think that would be pretty disturbing to an ENTP or an ENFP in particular. People can make changes, but those changes have a higher cost the older you get. It would be really interesting to hear the specific aspects that horrify you.

Edit: I understand what you are saying about INFJs being a "stressed type", although the specific progression and conclusion of your description seemed perhaps personalized to a specific INFJ. I had some trouble following it. For myself, I think I am not a pair for the huge majority of people. I wouldn't want to bother most with the way I operate and prefer to be alone unless I'm able to make a successful connection with a rare bird. I'm acutely aware of many aspects to my specific application of INFJ that most would prefer to interact with from afar and it does have to be with being too abstract, analytical, and "stressed" internally, and yet strangely enough way too laid back externally as well. There are a number of dichotomies in the INFJ personality type that people in general probably don't want to deal with.

 

[entropie]

Whether it is work or relationships, most people end up stuck, even trapped in circumstances that are much different than they had hoped for in their lives. I think that would be pretty disturbing to an ENTP or an ENFP in particular. People can make changes, but those changes have a higher cost the older you get. It would be really interesting to hear the specific aspects that horrify you.

Just to add my 5 cents: the entp type isnt called the inventor for no reason. When I was young I had an idea of what adult life could be, but that changed on a daily basis. Nowadays this hasnt changed much, my imagination of the future still changes on a daily basis cause the future is movement.

Another thing is that as an entp I dont really expect things from life. Meaning I dont want life a certain way to be, I am more like a leaf in a river and am fascinated by the directions it takes.

This all applies only of course to healthy relationships, if that is not given one should by all means bail out.

 

[Lux]

I like that one. And I'm not saying that isn't the case, but there are several factors that I was aware of at the time, that I now know in retrospect that I didn't know before, and things that developed in ways I didn't expect that indicate, to me, it was a good decision.

Consider that I was a thirty year old woman of average looks and no college degree and little work experience with four children between the ages of two and eight. As a single mother, life would have been sucky for us all. Marrying someone else would have been my best way to anything like a comfortable life. My prospects for finding a better and better off partner were pretty darn low. My husband was gone a lot for work, making little money, and withdrawn when he came home. He wasn't physically or verbally abusing me, just kind of leaving me out to dry because he couldn't cope. He wasn't unfaithful or drinking or gambling. What money he made went to taking care of us. We didn't argue. The sex wasn't super frequent, but it was good.

Looking back, we basically just bit off more than we could chew and we were both struggling to deal with it. It would have likely been the same with anyone I was with in those circumstances.

A few years later he got a better job, the kids were all in school all day and viola! our marriage improved dramatically.

Our kids were going to get older whether I was with their dad, single or with someone else. That I would earn more as a single mom in the same time period than my husband ended up making more is highly unlikely. I could have theoretically got with a man making similar money or better money, also unlikely, but possible. But then we would have all the issues that go along with having a blended family.

I don't have those with my kids' dad: no step-parent dynamics, not sorting out visitation, no child-support issues. That stuff can negatively impact a marriage.

Now, as the TED talk indicates, I likely would have adjusted to the circumstances and been a similar degree of happy, but my circumstances would likely not have materially improved. So at the very least it's a toss-up and, having had step-parents, that's enough to make me glad I stayed.

This makes the think of past conversations.. I have talked a lot with a few other people on the definition of Love and some think it is a pure emotion that carries you through life, through tides, whirlpools, and stagnate ponds. Others think it is the conviction of making a choice to remain in Love, to work on what needs fixing and to allow the time needed to realize the cause and to work on the remedy. I don't think looking at Love in either light is good or bad, but I think experiencing both aids in growth of the Individual. And in my opinion a partnership is at it's best with two complete Individuals. We don't grow when not challenged in any aspect of our lives.

Also, when children are involved in any situation.. it's always, in my experience, thought of differently.

Correct me if wrong, but overall infjs are a very stressed type, (stress is a word I use rather than a real experience for me), they stress, then overanalyse, go into loops, hang onto the answer they find, the answer brings actionable relief, relief is needed, stress is feared, the answer become truth.

While it's very understandable, I'm just not willing to deal with that kind of utter bullshit in my personal life.

This I think is incomplete as an encompassing generalization. I do agree that very stressed people go into the over-analyzing and fear inspired loop that you present, however, I don't think that as a type INFJ's can be described like this.. I think environment and experiences can change that, which is perhaps more common when in a diminished or immature state for them (INFJ's). And from my own experience this was obvious on a couple of occasions in my life. Where I think the theory is incomplete is it denies INFJ's the ability to grow beyond it, which is what is always a problem in generalizations. It shuts the door, and shut doors are limiting.

On another hand, the utter bullshit of experiences such as these requires a lot of work that, sadly, often ends in broken feelings and vulnerability on both sides. They are rarely win/win because we are all human and humans hurt. I also agree that dealing with things like this is not fair almost to either party, at all.

My experiences with the couple of ENTP's I have been able to know has been the sort of magic that incinerates us both, and could possibly through years of trial been good, but, it was difficult to separate the present from the future. Too many small issues that would build (did build) into larger ones that were not fair to either of us. So while I do believe it could be a good thing.. it would take tremendous effort on both parts, and neither could be immature or fucked up in the head at the time. That seems to cloud things.

 

[1487610420]

We don't grow when challenged in any aspect of our lives.

I'd think that challenge is what fosters growth, while being in one's comfort zone does not.

 

[Lux]

I'd think that challenge is what fosters growth, while being in one's comfort zone does not.

Yes, that is what I meant to say.. 'We don't grow when NOT challenged'... And now it's in quotes! I hate when I forget words when I reread... I swear they're there. :/ *shakes head*

**edited, thanks phobik

 

[1487610420]

Yes, that is what I meant to say.. 'We don't grow when NOT challenged'... And now it's in quotes! I hate when I forget words when I reread... I swear they're there. :/ *shakes head*

You planned it from the start, didn't you, knowing the ENTP crowd would be on the lookout, just to net extra attention.
Well done.

 

[Lux]

You planned it from the start, didn't you, knowing the ENTP crowd would be on the lookout, just to net extra attention.
Well done.

Obviously, phobik. *tips hat to your Si*

 

[cafe]

I'm not/wasn't in your shoes to question/judge your resolve, which naturally was a culmination of your thought process/life experience/expectations/fears/etc, and that's also not the point here, either. If anything, I'd speculate any reasoning now, will be like monday morning quarterbacking, just reinforcing what the TED video sheds light about.

Regardless, I think it provides, as pointed out, an often [always?] neglected pov that plays a big role in the sort of pitfall dynamics that have been discussed in this thread, but not restricted to the specific MTBI pairing.

One obviously can't know how one would have felt if things had gone a different way, however, looking back, there are periods of my life that I feel more positive about than others. I have a hard time gaging my level of happiness in the present and would probably always rate my current level of happiness at around the same level unless I as going through some kind of major crisis. But looking back, I can tell you I was pretty miserable when my kids were small and we were broke and I was very happy from 2006 to 2009 when my husband was making good money and had a local route and the kids were in school all day. Those were some of the best years of my life. Things have been harder since the recession, but never as bad as when we were very poor. There are worse things than poverty but I still really don't like it.

I dont know why, but that kind of logic applied to one's life, while it is something i do everyday for everything else, absolutly horrifies me when it comes to friends or romantic relationships.

Morover, pretty much nothing horrifies me, so that makes it particularly interesting.

People not applying logic to their relationships horrifies me. Relationships are too important not to apply logic to, IMO. Yet people just thrash around like . . . I dunno . . . blind octopi in a tank full of lemon juice. And a lot of times their kids are along for the ride. It's unconscionable.

This makes the think of past conversations.. I have talked a lot with a few other people on the definition of Love and some think it is a pure emotion that carries you through life, through tides, whirlpools, and stagnate ponds. Others think it is the conviction of making a choice to remain in Love, to work on what needs fixing and to allow the time needed to realize the cause and to work on the remedy. I don't think looking at Love in either light is good or bad, but I think experiencing both aids in growth of the Individual. And in my opinion a partnership is at it's best with two complete Individuals. We don't grow when challenged in any aspect of our lives.

Also, when children are involved in any situation.. it's always, in my experience, thought of differently.

The English word 'love' is so broad as to barely be useful, IMO. For me, conviction is the trellis and emotion is the vine. You need both things because what is a trellis without a vine? And how can the vine thrive without the trellis?

LTRs go through seasons. Each season has its pros and their cons, but some are easier and/or more pleasant than others. Nobody told me this, so I kind of had to wallow around and figure it out on my own. It would have been helpful to me to have known there was an end in sight, I think.

 

[Samvega]

mmh . i dont know guys.

In my case I am particularly vulnerable to infjs overall, whether friends or romantic interests.
But I can't really afford to be vulnerable. it breaks me, and it can take me years to pick up the pieces. As a risk taker when it comes to things that have potential to redefine my life I find most people do not share the same risk taking pattern, it is disappointing. I for example changed countries, cultures etc. at a moments notice. Stepping into a plane about 3 days after deciding, and deciding in less than a minute, and I can explain exactly why I made that choice. It was rational but the trick to me is stress management. I do not really, experience stress, if i do it probably equivates to a total mental breakdown curled up in a ball and moaning for your average stress prone infj.

Correct me if wrong, but overall infjs are a very stressed type, (stress is a word I use rather than a real experience for me), they stress, then overanalyse, go into loops, hang onto the answer they find, the answer brings actionable relief, relief is needed, stress is feared, the answer become truth.

While it's very understandable, I'm just not willing to deal with that kind of utter bullshit in my personal life.

so all that to say that except if I lived 1000 years i'd probably never be ready to be so vulnerable to someone ever again. Then again im a risk taker, so. mhhh.

You guys have fun keeping that thread alive.

EcK, without a doubt I fully understand where you're coming from and wanted to acknowledge that you aren't alone. I feel a stronger pull to INFJs than I have to any other type however I've never felt emotionally safe or in any way secure with one. Like yourself, being "vulnerable" is incredibly taxing on me and the push/pull and avoidance issues of an INFJ make that literally painful (also the best weight loss plan I've ever found). I don't however want to bash or pigeonhole a type, any type and maybe being an extrovert simply adds a catalyst to the dynamic that pushes INFJs to make choices they're unwilling to otherwise make, or point out things they're not willing to face. Maybe this is why the vast majority of INFJs choose to date introverts, because they can go through 1, 2 or 3 year periods of being unhappy with their partner and it doesn't come to a head without that catalyst. Maybe I'm simply too abrasive for such a feeling based type, I can't really say that I have the answer, nor that there is any single right answer. I just know that trying to remain present in that setting is very hard for me and if it doesn't work out requires an enormous amount of time for me to recover from.

We do sound alike in that I take calculated risks as well, I make quick decisions, I look like I'm very spontaneous but the truth is, I'm INCREDIBLY calculating and what people don't see is the level of thought that goes into what I'm deciding prior to deciding it. When an opportunity presents itself, I simply jump on it based on already known, thought out or determined factors. I haven't found many people who share my line of thinking that's for certain.

 

[Samvega]

Caveat

I do feel compelled to add that this is love we're talking about, people are incredibly complex, we self sooth, justify, live in denial, inherently avoid change, can pull the wool over our own eyes and the list of negative human qualities is overwhelming. We each have such different desires, needs, wants, passions and so on and much of the time we're fooling ourselves or idealizing situations, people and things. So we're going to get hurt, we're going to hurt others, things are going to get tough, be rough, make us cry, we're either going to run or stand our ground and learn and both choices are likely to cause ourselves and others damage.

I'm saying this because I started this thread many years ago because I'm so curious about this dynamic. Do I think it's "hands down the best", no way, that was my idealization of it, do I think it has the potential to be incredibly amazing even after getting my ass kicked by an INFJ or two, absolutely!

So, let's please try to keep this super productive and positive, to avoid allowing the hurt of failed relationship to skew our words and intentions. Let's try to come up with something positive that will shed some light on potential pitfalls for INFJs and ENTPs that do love each other so they can work on growing as a couple and identifying where they are failing or falling short or misunderstanding each other.

We're all very knowledgable in these matters and should be able to at least help illuminate the path for others.

 

[Society]

I'm INCREDIBLY calculating and what people don't see is the level of thought that goes into what I'm deciding prior to deciding it.

seriously? you've being in long term relationships with INFJs and haven't yet learned how cheap can people's claims be about their own personality when push comes to shove? if you want to make anyone believe how calculated you are, share: wtf are your calculations here? why does it make sense for [MENTION=5643]EcK[/MENTION], me, or anyone who knows the ride, and for fuck sake even for yourself, to have another romantic go with an INFJ, of all types?

and FYI

if you stopped to calculate, then yes, it is of your interest, the best of marketing campaigns will fail miserably without the customer who'll make your product into a story to tell about.