How Much do you Care About Theme?

[five sounds]

In my ongoing attempt to understand my preferences and why I don't like some things (in this thread, I'm mainly referring to books, movies, and television) that most others enjoy, I've come across what seems to be a viable theory. I've always known that I was bored by plot in most cases. But I was struggling to find what it was that I did like about the things I liked.

Enter theme. I seem to care way more about a story if it's thematically strong. Suddenly there appears to be a purpose, a statement being made. Something I can reflect on and that will draw me in.

Why though? People seem to be so into the opposite. And I had the thought it was an intuitive thing, but I know lots of N types who LOVE those types of movies, books, and shows I find eye-rollingly boring.

So what do you like? Am I making any sense? Does anyone relate?

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

A good, well-structured plot is nothing without good themes. It depends. I like to dissect, criticize and find flaws in plots (people assume I hate stories when I do this, but I just like finding logical inconsistencies and can't help myself, really).

I think I like stories with a good balance of themes and well-written plot. Sometimes writers overdo it with themes and bonk readers/viewers over the head with it. I like it when they're there, but more subtle and you have to think about the story a bit to recognize them--it encourages readers/viewers to use some analytical thinking rather than having a theme handed to them on a plate.

 

[geedoenfj]

In my ongoing attempt to understand my preferences and why I don't like some things (in this thread, I'm mainly referring to books, movies, and television) that most others enjoy, I've come across what seems to be a viable theory. I've always known that I was bored by plot in most cases. But I was struggling to find what it was that I did like about the things I liked.

Enter theme. I seem to care way more about a story if it's thematically strong. Suddenly there appears to be a purpose, a statement being made. Something I can reflect on and that will draw me in.

Why though? People seem to be so into the opposite. And I had the thought it was an intuitive thing, but I know lots of N types who LOVE those types of movies, books, and shows I find eye-rollingly boring.

So what do you like? Am I making any sense? Does anyone relate?

For these to work for me and effect me there has to be a convincing story+ clear outlining of the characters+ strong plot+ connection to the theme+good acting+ good directing and many other factors.
Although I can overlook some of these at some level if they contain something very extraordinary or creative or new idea about them, and of course I put different standards for each category of these, so I think different people have different standards coming from different motivations and education level and we differ on terms of things that we overlook, that's explains why is it that I roll my eyes at something and think it's cheesy or do not move anything inside me that many others are much more excited about, or even the mass majority consider it a huge success for that work..
That is actually a bless IMO; because given the fact that non of these art works are perfect or complete, different standards of people will make them at least not completely fail in the market, however the works that mange to meet quality standards in a larger scale (or even more by reaching new creativity and sentimental levels) are the ones that have more chances to become popular and be a legacy later on..

 

[indra]

Someone laughed at me when I said I loved how thematic Fury Road was. I tend to find themes everywhere, yeah. That's why I'm predisposed to finding mystical phenomena in the world, I can't help but associate occurrences with some deeper, unifying force.

The Dark Tower is my favorite thematic work.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Someone laughed at me when I said I loved how thematic Fury Road was. I tend to find themes everywhere, yeah. That's why I'm predisposed to finding mystical phenomena in the world, I can't help but associate occurrences with some deeper, unifying force.

The Dark Tower is my favorite thematic work.

The Mad Max films are rife with themes. Most people probably watch them for the mindless action, but they're there if one wants to look for them.

 

[five sounds]

Someone laughed at me when I said I loved how thematic Fury Road was. I tend to find themes everywhere, yeah. That's why I'm predisposed to finding mystical phenomena in the world, I can't help but associate occurrences with some deeper, unifying force.

The Dark Tower is my favorite thematic work.

Yess! I loved The Dark Tower. And normally would hate some kind of epic saga like that otherwise.

 

[cascadeco]

I wasn't sure what was meant by theme, vs plot, but when people bring up Fury Road, which I really liked due to the whole aura/ambience/world-creation of the movie, I guess I do like theme a lot.

I probably find plot fairly important in most movies, though. I suppose both are an ideal, but maybe world-creation/theme has a slightly stronger edge.

In tv shows, my favorites are ones that really get deeply into characters, in real ways. My favorite show, because of this, is still Six Feet Under.

 

[Forever]

With the exception of music, I am very much focused into meaning.

With movies and tv series especially. I love the X-Files is because it brings you a sense of wonder and it shows a different kind of romance that you don't really see now a days. Mulder and Scully are so open with each other and have a love for one another not always having to express it physically. In movies today while I'm not necessarily opposed to it, sex is being bombarded making it seem that the only strong indicator of a true relationship. Yes we get we like getting pleasure but there's surely more to why someone desires another. (hopefully)

I can't watch many comedic shows like How I Met Your Mother, Friends, The Office really as much as it's so fluff and the things that happen are so trivial to where it seems like if you like those shows so much, do you have a similar lifestyle or... I mean I find reality much more entertaining.. because I don't know it's REAL.

Lord of the Rings also showed the strong value of friendship like Frodo and Sam did (obviously many other elements were shown too) but that's what I valued most from the film.

The majority of books I read have to do with real life, because I want to use the time reading for things practical and with purpose. I like reading memoirs too because it's the closest I can have an intimate setting of someone without the uncomfortable dynamics of trying to establish trust and all that.

With music I find the exception because I see music as a propeller to get me to doing things or to enjoy the present more. Music like trance makes me feel expansive and positive. Dubstep/Trap/Hip-hop makes me feel intense. Pop makes me embrace with my anima. But it comes with a price, if I share that music with someone and they belittle it. Since I identified with those riveting emotions so much and often, it really feels like you're directly insulting me even though no one probably means to.

 

[five sounds]

I wasn't sure what was meant by theme, vs plot, but when people bring up Fury Road, which I really liked due to the whole aura/ambience/world-creation of the movie, I guess I do like theme a lot.

I probably find plot fairly important in most movies, though. I suppose both are an ideal, but maybe world-creation/theme has a slightly stronger edge.

In tv shows, my favorites are ones that really get deeply into characters, in real ways. My favorite show, because of this, is still Six Feet Under.

Yeah I was doing some research on plot and theme last night as my gf was watching house of cards and I was wondering what was wrong with me lol. Plot driven stories are usually genre fiction, like sci-fi, romance, drama, mystery, etc. They mainly tell a story through plot within one of these genres. Theme driven stories are known as literary fiction, with plot taking a back seat to the development of a theme that explores or expresses some kind of existential or universal truth or tries to make a statement about it.

 

[cascadeco]

Yeah I was doing some research on plot and theme last night as my gf was watching house of cards and I was wondering what was wrong with me lol. Plot driven stories are usually genre fiction, like sci-fi, romance, drama, mystery, etc. They mainly tell a story through plot within one of these genres. Theme driven stories are known as literary fiction, with plot taking a back seat to the development of a theme that explores or expresses some kind of existential or universal truth or tries to make a statement about it.

Ah, cool. Thanks for the explanation. Given that, I guess I may be a little more plot driven. However there are select theme based movies that speak strongly to me.

(I recall a 100% theme based movie yrs ago that is the only movie I've ever seen where I seriously considered leaving the theater within the first 15 minutes, it seemed the most pretentious thing ever, 'Coffee and Cigarettes', but I forced myself through it but was so bored. Now, I think there are probably really terrible theme based movies out there, and really great ones... same with plot... and a lot of subjectivity goes with this too ofc)

 

[five sounds]

Ah, cool. Thanks for the explanation. Given that, I guess I may be a little more plot driven. However there are select theme based movies that speak strongly to me.

(I recall a 100% theme based movie yrs ago that is the only movie I've ever seen where I seriously considered leaving the theater within the first 15 minutes, it seemed the most pretentious thing ever, 'Coffee and Cigarettes', but I forced myself through it but was so bored. Now, I think there are probably really terrible theme based movies out there, and really great ones... same with plot... and a lot of subjectivity goes with this too ofc)

I've never seen Coffee and Cigarettes but it's funny to read what you said because that's the level of otherness I'm feeling here. Like I wanna get up and walk out of movies everyone loves and the ones that seem pointless and boring to most are my favorites. Of course, acting and also the nature of the theme are factors. But I'd be hard pressed to find a movie too plotless for me.

 

[hjgbujhghg]

I am the same as [MENTION=18819]five sounds[/MENTION] I really need a good theme, something to reflect on, something that speaks to me in every art (movie, books, music etc...) in order to be able to like it. Stuff that is made just for an effect or mind blowing visual techniques is more than boring for me. I need something more. I know a lot of people don't look for this though, but I personally find it sad that not everyone is able to appreciate the beauty of a meaningful thought.

 

[five sounds]

I am the same as [MENTION=18819]five sounds[/MENTION] I really need a good theme, something to reflect on, something that speaks to me in every art (movie, books, music etc...) in order to be able to like it. Stuff that is made just for an effect or mind blowing visual techniques is more than boring for me. I need something more. I know a lot of people don't look for this though, but I personally find it sad that not everyone is able to appreciate the beauty of a meaningful thought.

Mona! My girl. Do you find it makes it hard to relate to others sometimes? Like sorry, I know you and everyone else thinks it's so great, but I hate it. Also the pretentious thing cascedaco mentioned. I don't like feeling like others think I'm snooty or something. I just wanna find someone who gets me tbh. Why is it so hard?

 

[hjgbujhghg]

Mona! My girl. Do you find it makes it hard to relate to others sometimes? Like sorry, I know you and everyone else thinks it's so great, but I hate it. Also the pretentious thing cascedaco mentioned. I don't like feeling like others think I'm snooty or something. I just wanna find someone who gets me tbh. Why is it so hard?

I totally feel you! I really do find it hard to relate to others when it comes to art and I have been even called a snob because of that, but this is not about snobbery for me, it's about the real meaning and the real feeling I get from the art, I simply naturally look for. I actually think this might be more Fi related than anything... depends on what side of this you're looking at though.
But looking for meaning in art seems very Fi to me and when you're intuitive it's just that curtain that opens in front of you... I don't want to sound like an NFP snob or something, I am sorry if I do.

 

[Forever]

Mona! My girl.

I remember when I was your girl.

Lol I know you meant this for Mona, but I was with the show breaking bad. Everybody loved it and I forced myself to watch all 5 seasons all to no avail I'm choking dust out of my mouth.

I'm like you love a show where a crackpot gets clever and hides all the show and then life sucks afterwards? Am I the only one who sees the forest for the trees?

 

[Smilephantomhive]

I’m not exactly sure how thematic this is, but I love stories that explore that the darker side of life (or death). Sad endings leave me with a nice disturbed feeling because it feels so real. I love when stories shift my view of the world, but I usually have to think about it for that to happen. That’s probably why I like disturbing stuff because I can’t stop myself from thinking about it, so I eventually come to some interesting realizations.

I hope that made sense.

I'm okay with watching shows without meaning, but only if they're short, funny, and everyone is talking about it and I feel left out.

 

[indra]

Yess! I loved The Dark Tower. And normally would hate some kind of epic saga like that otherwise.

I forgot you'd read that.

I've put more thought into the series than I care to admit. Usually when I try talking about it even with people who were "into" the series they just... don't care. lol.

Like how Roland received the gold Rolex from the CEO of Tet Corp after saving the beams from the breakers. That effectively signaled the end of the "story", but for Roland it was never about saving the world, it was the curiosity of what was on the tower. Addiction. A tower junkie.

The best part I've never heard anyone decipher was when Roland and Susannah were on Odd Lane. Stephen King has left them a note on a roll of toilet paper, pointing to certain phrases in the poem that inspired the story, "Childe Roland to the Dark Tower Came". In it, King points to verses I, II, XIII, XIV, and XVI.

MY first thought was, he lied in every word,
That hoary cripple, with malicious eye
Askance to watch the working of his lie
On mine, and mouth scarce able to afford
Suppression of the glee, that purs’d and scor'd
Its edge, at one more victim gain’d thereby.

What else should he be set for, with his staff?
What, save to waylay with his lies, ensnare
All travellers who might find him posted there,
And ask the road? I guess’d what skull-like laugh
Would break, what crutch ’gin write my epitaph
For pastime in the dusty thoroughfare,

As for the grass, it grew as scant as hair
In leprosy; thin dry blades prick’d the mud
Which underneath look’d kneaded up with blood.
One stiff blind horse, his every bone a-stare,
Stood stupefied, however he came there:
Thrust out past service from the devil’s stud!

Alive? he might be dead for aught I know,
With that red, gaunt and collop’d neck a-strain,
And shut eyes underneath the rusty mane;
Seldom went such grotesqueness with such woe;
I never saw a brute I hated so;
He must be wicked to deserve such pain.

Not it! I fancied Cuthbert’s reddening face
Beneath its garniture of curly gold,
Dear fellow, till I almost felt him fold
An arm in mine to fix me to the place,
That way he us’d. Alas, one night’s disgrace!
Out went my heart’s new fire and left it cold.

It's funny to me - because Roland and Susannah both take the verses to be something so immediate - the horse literally being the old horse Lippy, Joe Collins's steed, who dies shortly after their reading the verses. I believe the stanzas were chosen to represent Roland and his infinite quest of misery! It is Roland who lies to his friends to serve a cause, it is Roland who winds stupefied at the waystation in the desert chasing the man in black time and time again, fed by his addiction.

Or I could be delusional and it's not meant to be thought of so deeply lol. I just think this interpretation gives an ending, Roland stuck in his infinite loop.

Also the line of never trusting anyone who wears glasses

 

[cascadeco]

Mona! My girl. Do you find it makes it hard to relate to others sometimes? Like sorry, I know you and everyone else thinks it's so great, but I hate it. Also the pretentious thing cascedaco mentioned. I don't like feeling like others think I'm snooty or something. I just wanna find someone who gets me tbh. Why is it so hard?

fwiw the movie I mentioned is the only one offhand I can think of that I've ever called pretentious, it's just also the only pure theme movie I could think of. To me it seemed completely meaningless, and part of what bothered me was that I got the distinct impression it was 'supposed' to be deep and clever and 'meaningful' in its pointlessness, that the randomness was supposed to be meta in some way, but to me it was just a waste of time. But I'm not saying everyone will have that impression of it. tbh I'm probably considered pretty particular in things I think are quality, but prob fall somewhere in the middle of theme vs plot vs character development vs visual and elements of all, though character development is prob highest for me.

With books, though, I'm much less concerned about plot (ie I don't read strictly plot-based pop fiction / serial novels). I read a lot but would be considered totally snobby and highbrow by many, prob. Music? Not sure. I am drawn to different things, though tbh it's more about sound itself, I often don't even know the lyrics, or only lyrics of songs where the lyrics really stand out/ are especially poignant and stand out)

 

[indra]

I also like recurring musical themes and prog albums.

How the introduction to this album

is concluded at the end of the other half of the double album

A theme in music I've liked is when songs are 'suppressed' for most of the track then open a fair bit in, progressively at times, like these

Or the monster evolving riff from 5:00 to like 19:31 in this one

 

[21%]

I look for insight and genuine human emotions. Atmosphere is also important too, and a tiny bit of sadness never hurts