• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

How do we implement reparations?

Lark

Active member
Joined
Jun 21, 2009
Messages
29,568
the past is a good distraction from the present. the answers are no less difficult to come up with, but everyone one can talk about is already dead. makes it antiseptic. Cleaner. And thus the names and faces change but the dance remains the same a grim tango where once was talk of peace, is once more ripped asunder by the war of the words. :(

I do agree with that, Orwell was right to say that who controls the present controls the future and who controls the past controls the present but at the end of the day it is the present and future that matters.

Traditions matter, memory matters but ultimately only so much as the present and future matter and should be better.
 

Lark

Active member
Joined
Jun 21, 2009
Messages
29,568
It’s not a secret right wing Trojan horse or whatever. Most right wingers strongly oppose reparations, though as always I welcome your insights.

It may not be but its one of those things which while being supposedly progressive encourages group think and division along the lines of identity politics.

Net gain?

Right wing.

Trojan To Tha Horse.
 

Lark

Active member
Joined
Jun 21, 2009
Messages
29,568
Personally I think a broader approach is the answer to healing those deep wounds.

I also think as interracial relationships are on the rise, we will get to a point eventually where a majority of people will be “mixed” and we won’t need reparations

To be honest the majority of people are mixed already.

Any sort of racial purity dream is a total and utter ruse, a slave ideology peddled to the make those in servitude feel better about themselves while they can be robbed blind by the overlords or until such times as the overlords work out a way to kill them. Like with a disease pandemic, poisoned food and water, whatever.
 

Doctor Cringelord

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 27, 2013
Messages
20,606
MBTI Type
I
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
It may not be but its one of those things which while being supposedly progressive encourages group think and division along the lines of identity politics.

Net gain?

Right wing.

Trojan To Tha Horse.

Well, my main fear about implementing reparations would be that afterwards, the right and some conservatives might argue that the communities that received them no longer need any consideration or real help. Like, “y’all already got yer reparations, what more do you really need?”
 

Doctor Cringelord

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 27, 2013
Messages
20,606
MBTI Type
I
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
To be honest the majority of people are mixed already.

Any sort of racial purity dream is a total and utter ruse, a slave ideology peddled to the make those in servitude feel better about themselves while they can be robbed blind by the overlords or until such times as the overlords work out a way to kill them. Like with a disease pandemic, poisoned food and water, whatever.

Yes. Most African Americans have white and native ancestry. A good deal of white Americans, especially in Appalachia and parts of the southeast, have some native and/or black ancestry. Many white people are now being quite surprised by the results of their DNA ancestry kit results

And, going back further, you really won’t find many instances of ethnically “pure” groups on this planet, as most of human history has been a sequence of various groups absorbing or gradually mixing with other groups.
 

Doctor Cringelord

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 27, 2013
Messages
20,606
MBTI Type
I
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
The unfortunate thing is that there was a chance to do this right back in the 1870s but of course we fucked it up.
 

ceecee

Coolatta® Enjoyer
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
15,923
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
8w9
Although it’s true the vast majority of poor southern whites in 1861 were not really interested in seceding and fighting a rich slave owner’s war (Davis had to implement conscription), the governments of most southern states were pretty clear that they were seceding primarily to protect the institution of slavery. It’s literally written in their articles/declarations of secession. Read Texas’ declaration of secession and those cards are clearly on the table.

People need to stop perpetuating this myth that the war was some noble fight over state’s’ sovereignty and rights. It was always about slavery, primarily.

So it’s weird that so many po white people today are nostalgic for something that a good deal of their po white ancestors probably weren’t even in favor of, or in the least believe slavery was just a minor, tertiary reason for secession and war. Especially those in places like western Virginia (remember, it was once a unified state and in a twist the western part had to secede from VA to rejoin the union. Most west of the piedmont region weren’t wealthy slave owners so the economic impact of slavery ending would not have been felt as a direct threat to their way of life).

This is a lasting effect of the Lost Cause Narrative which was widely spread from the period of reconstruction through the early 20th century, that masses of whites, including some with no roots in the south, were led to believe some disneyfied, sanitized gone with the wind view of that episode in US history

If people took 5 minutes to read the Confederate Constitution, they would see the main issue always was slavery and the expansion of slavery. But they won't, just like they won't read the declarations of secession. Lincoln not only fought to stop slavery spreading west, he also fought to stop it spreading to Mexico, Central America and South America.

Most right wingers oppose reparations, as much as they continue to live in a fantasy world about the Civil War. The south has done a great job rewriting history and brainwashing people on the matters, it's going to take as much work to deprogram them.

Every person living in the US has benefited from slavery. It built the country. And some people are under the impression that slavery is some kind of ancient history. It's not, Whites Only signs are in lots of living folks's memory. Black people have never had the time to build the generational wealth white people have due to slavery and then Jim Crow/redline/discrimination laws written and enforced by white people all over this country.

In a few cases they may have started and often, white people have stopped it dead in it's tracks (Tulsa Oklahoma is a good example).

I think trusts, such as been done in other nations (Australia, Germany) would be a good step. But it will never happen because this country cannot even retain the laws enacted in 1965 to provide equal voting rights. The same way most economic investments put in place to help everyone that needs it have been decimated. The majority of white people will eventually find themselves in the same circumstance as black and brown people as income inequality grows. The legislature and supreme court will see to that. And so many white people are so brainwashed that they keep...on...voting...for...this. I've never seen anything like it.
 

Lark

Active member
Joined
Jun 21, 2009
Messages
29,568
Well, my main fear about implementing reparations would be that afterwards, the right and some conservatives might argue that the communities that received them no longer need any consideration or real help. Like, “y’all already got yer reparations, what more do you really need?”

yeah, I've heard that, its considered a "write down" and "final settlement".

Like I said I think its a bad idea, anything that encourages group think and identity politics is a bad idea. From whatever quarter.
 

anticlimatic

Permabanned
Joined
Oct 17, 2013
Messages
3,299
MBTI Type
INTP
I think you should be free to donate as much of your money as you want to whomever you want, whenever you want. Maybe just pick a few faces you see at random that seem like they could use it and give your kids college money to them?
 

Doctor Cringelord

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 27, 2013
Messages
20,606
MBTI Type
I
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Direct payments to people is not really the way. It’s little more than a glorified tax refund.

True reparations would involve deep changes to the justice system, housing systems, pretty much everything. Sweeping reform.
 

Maou

Mythos
Joined
Jun 20, 2018
Messages
6,121
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Although it’s true the vast majority of poor southern whites in 1861 were not really interested in seceding and fighting a rich slave owner’s war (Davis had to implement conscription), the governments of most southern states were pretty clear that they were seceding primarily to protect the institution of slavery. It’s literally written in their articles/declarations of secession. Read Texas’ declaration of secession and those cards are clearly on the table.

People need to stop perpetuating this myth that the war was some noble fight over state’s’ sovereignty and rights. It was always about slavery, primarily.

So it’s weird that so many po white people today are nostalgic for something that a good deal of their po white ancestors probably weren’t even in favor of, or in the least believe slavery was just a minor, tertiary reason for secession and war. Especially those in places like western Virginia (remember, it was once a unified state and in a twist the western part had to secede from VA to rejoin the union. Most west of the piedmont region weren’t wealthy slave owners so the economic impact of slavery ending would not have been felt as a direct threat to their way of life).

This is a lasting effect of the Lost Cause Narrative which was widely spread from the period of reconstruction through the early 20th century, that masses of whites, including some with no roots in the south, were led to believe some disneyfied, sanitized gone with the wind view of that episode in US history

People seem to be nostalgic about a lot of horrible things, like communism and socialism. Just overlook the bad things and try again, and hopefully it will be better this time right? ;)
 

21%

You have a choice!
Joined
May 15, 2009
Messages
3,224
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
I'm not from the US -- and the concept of reparations seems awfully silly to me. Everyone at one point took something from someone else. I feel like this whole thing is the product of the mentality that everything can be 'paid off', which is dangerous. It also creates the "aggressor" and the "victim", the usual 'us vs them' narrative (which I'm sure a lot of people benefit from -- mainly people at the top, who find it easier to divide and conquer, pitch people against each other, let people point blame elsewhere, while they profit). I appreciate that some groups of people were treated unfairly at some point in history, but reparations are not the way to go. What you need to do is identify inequality or disadvantages they are now suffering from and then fix those underlying issues. Those are the long-term solutions.
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
19,867
I'm not from the US -- and the concept of reparations seems awfully silly to me. Everyone at one point took something from someone else. I feel like this whole thing is the product of the mentality that everything can be 'paid off', which is dangerous. It also creates the "aggressor" and the "victim", the usual 'us vs them' narrative (which I'm sure a lot of people benefit from -- mainly people at the top, who find it easier to divide and conquer, pitch people against each other, let people point blame elsewhere, while they profit). I appreciate that some groups of people were treated unfairly at some point in history, but reparations are not the way to go. What you need to do is identify inequality or disadvantages they are now suffering from and then fix those underlying issues. Those are the long-term solutions.


I am also not from US and I can agree with this. Reducing things purely to money can be dangerous and very dividing. What isn't good for the country.
This is exactly why I said that people should focus more on the present problems and just focus on the fairness of the law at this point. Sometimes it is better that history is nothing more than history. Especially if multiple generations have lived in the meantime.
 
Top