[NT] How are INTJs different from INTPs?

[Athenian200]

INTPs are perceiving types, and INTJs are judging types.

More specifically:

INTJ: Ni, Te, Fi, Se

INTP: Ti, Ne, Si, Fe

They have no functions in common, but they share an interest in abstract, logical reasoning despite being interested in and using very different aspects of it regularly. Ti tends to see everything in terms of a logical framework and nitpicks, Ni tends to have a "vision."

Another important thing to remember is that an INTJ is an INTUITIVE type first and foremost, while an INTP is a THINKING type first and foremost... meaning that their emphasis is different. Yet ironically, INTJs interact via Te and INTPs via Ne, so one would get the opposite impression at first.

I would conjecture that INTJs are more like strategists and practical achievers, and INTPs are more like engineers or philosophers.

 

[htb]

Respectively: Egon Spengler, Ray Stantz.

 

[Jack Flak]

Respectively: Egon Spengler, Ray Stantz.

What do you think about Venkman? I'm INTP, and I operate like that pretty regularly with friends. It's ego*, but nonetheless.

*2.Psychoanalysis. the part of the psychic apparatus that experiences and reacts to the outside world and thus mediates between the primitive drives of the id and the demands of the social and physical environment.

 

[htb]

What do you think about Venkman? I'm INTP, and I operate like that pretty regularly with friends. It's ego*, but nonetheless.

Well, I was thinking out loud, but Venkman is Murray with a few original characteristics, so -- ENTP.

 

[Turkish_Cats]

INTJs also tend to be more melancholic while INTPs are more phlegmatic.

Yes.
I am afraid that I'm going to be a melancholic.

INTPs are perceiving types, and INTJs are judging types.

More specifically:

INTJ: Ni, Te, Fi, Se

INTP: Ti, Ne, Si, Fe

They have no functions in common, but they share an interest in abstract, logical reasoning despite being interested in and using very different aspects of it regularly. Ti tends to see everything in terms of a logical framework and nitpicks, Ni tends to have a "vision."

Another important thing to remember is that an INTJ is an INTUITIVE type first and foremost, while an INTP is a THINKING type first and foremost... meaning that their emphasis is different. Yet ironically, INTJs interact via Te and INTPs via Ne, so one would get the opposite impression at first.

I would conjecture that INTJs are more like strategists and practical achievers, and INTPs are more like engineers or philosophers.

In fact,there are many philosophers and scientists of INTJ.
Ni makes them to be...

 

[Uytuun]

Where society doesnt fit in with my image of how things should be, I just change the reality of it.

Very true, reality is malleable, sometimes it feels like it simply doesn't pertain to me, can't touch me...reality, society etc.

 

[Kaizer]

INTPs are perceiving types, and INTJs are judging types.

More specifically:

INTJ: Ni, Te, Fi, Se

INTP: Ti, Ne, Si, Fe

They have no functions in common, but they share an interest in abstract, logical reasoning despite being interested in and using very different aspects of it regularly. Ti tends to see everything in terms of a logical framework and nitpicks, Ni tends to have a "vision."

Another important thing to remember is that an INTJ is an INTUITIVE type first and foremost, while an INTP is a THINKING type first and foremost... meaning that their emphasis is different. Yet ironically, INTJs interact via Te and INTPs via Ne, so one would get the opposite impression at first.

I would conjecture that INTJs are more like strategists and practical achievers, and INTPs are more like engineers or philosophers.

INTPs more like planners , make systems more efficient or come up with seemingly original efficient system instead of existing ones etc. ...
INTJs systems but ones that conform more to structure since they lead with structure... so they're more like philosophers since they basically follow the sequence of having a construct first & thinking based substance second.

Till an INTJ gets at least a semblance of a structure, even if its non information based and even if its pretty amorphous, the thinking doesn't naturally kick off and that too is off of others cause its extraverted, but by the time it does kick in the structure is so much more complete that INTJs appear to be thinking types with a strategic outlook whereas they are strategically oriented and fill the strategy construct with thinking.

Their leading Ti makes INTPs the type that leads with a judging function and not a perceiving function.

Also, I won't be surprised if a multi functional analysis shows INTPs and INTJs having secondary preference for each other's type's functional hierarchy.

 

[Erudur]

You are correct, I find that I can look at things from so many angles that it is sometimes impossible for me to form 1 solid opinion. It's like I start out and then a whole sequence of "yes, but what ifs" starts rolling out into infinity. Cognitive processes said I was Ne Ni Ti Fi so maybe this is Ne influenced? But I'm not sure in how far these results are trustworthy.

Ti in itself is a lot more fixed and rigid than Ni and there is very little you can do about Ti principles in a discussion. They just won't budge.

I find that I am often in a conversation on a topic I've spent considerable time pondering. I'll mull over something for a period of years sometimes. When, in the conversation, opinions or points are expressed that I've already discarded (after extensive consideration), I come across as close-minded. I don't like coming across as close-minded but once I've identified what I see as a logical flaw or an inconsistency with the big picture, I am no longer open to the idea.

I think INFJs do this too, they are just much more socially skilled in navigating the conversation without offense.

It seems to me that INTJs tend to presume to know more and be more confident making ASSumptions based on their presumptions where INTPs are comfortable keeping an eye out for other possibilities.

This is only the case where we feel we've developed an expertise. (i.e. spent a lot of time on). We are extremely open (and along the lines of the Ni vs Ti comments perhaps more open) to possibilities we are early in the process of evaluating.

 

[Erudur]

And by the way, I am stunned by the volume of really insightul discussion on this site in general, this thread being a notable example.

 

[Riva]

INTPs are more logical, but INTJs are more efficient.

Also, it is theoretically possible for INTJs to be more motivated by emotion...in fact, this is probably more true of them than INFJs. This is due to the INTJ's tertiary Fi, which means they could have a stronger sense of internal values.

When not extroverting, the INTJ uses Ni and Fi, which could combine to form an idea subconsciously motivated by passion, which is then expressed forcefully via Te, without regard to established norms.

The INFJ, by contrast, uses Ni and Ti, so they are more motivated by imagination like the INTJ, but their tertiary function is motivated by pure reason and logic. When these introverted functions work together, we get the stereotype of the INFJ being a psychic prophet, or the paranoid person whose conspiracies are right...it's the axis of Ni's imagination and Ti's penchant for logical skepticism.

When functioning internally, the INTP uses Ti and Si, and this is how they represent the "walking encyclopedia" stereotype or a person who is interested in learning for the sake of learning. Ti analyzes the logical fluency of Si's internal forms. When engaging their Ne, the INTP has a knack for gaining a new way of logically seeing reasons behind things.

The ISTP, using Ti and Ni internally, is probably the source of this type's tendency to be rebellious. When engaging Se externally, the ISTP is able to use these functions for troubleshooting. This type is also stereotypically a keen observer of subtle changes in the environment. And since Se alone is focused on pure enjoyment of physical impulses, the function is modified for the ISTP and is thus more graceful and conscientious of them -- they are less reckless in expression of physical impulses. They use Ti to satisfy Se, and Ni serves this type's improvisational skills. I have observed, too, that many ISTPs are indeed interested in martial arts, individual sports, mechanics, working with tools, etc., and at the core, the ISTP, like the INTP cousin, is into science and mathematical theory, but the difference is that the ISTP will use the theory for more applied purposes (troubleshooting, observation, labwork, and so forth), while the INTP will use it to dream up something new with their auxiliary Ne.

So the INTJ and ISTP are more similar in that they are more concerned with usefulness. But the INTJ is more useful in that he uses the external world for purposes of fulfilling a vision, while the ISTP uses the internal world as a means for planning the next physical move. Now the INTJ also has Se as an inferior function, but since it is so undeveloped, the INTJ could merely fantasize about the physical responses to make by imagining various scenarios -- a famous example of an INTJ is, therefore, Travis Bickle in the film Taxi Driver -- the ISTP is more about analyzing opportunities for the next move.

can you repeat the same thing for the ENTJs funtion, and ENTPs

 

[Tallulah]

I've known two INTP personalities, one of them very well, the other as a co-worker.

Both of them have the following in common:

1. Cynicism - Aimed at the world in general... for no apparent reason that they want to voice.
2. Twisted sense of humor. Sometimes pretty dark...
3. Very direct one-liners. When they open their mouths, people have a tendency to just gape at them.
4. Single and seemingly NOT interested in dating
5. Suspicious and disbelieving of everything they hear in general.
6. Very good at pinpointing when someone is BSing them and almost eerily intuitive and able to read people. You get the feeling that they look right through you.
7. Both VERY smart and know the damdest things at the drop of a hat... and if you try to talk about something but are incorrect, they have no qualms about correcting you, but only after smirking at you long enough for you to finally ask 'What's so funny?!'
8. Did I mention they both tend to dislike most people in general? I hear 'People are Stupid' an aweful lot.
9. When in close and friendly conversations, they are witty, charming and extremely funny... but don't piss them off! They can glare the most bone-chilling gaze at you and go dead silent before dropping something so dead-on-the-money in your lap to shut you up before you can blink.

I had just repped Misty, but decided to post here as well...this list sounds a lot like me. Though I wouldn't say I'm un-interested in dating--I just don't find someone specific that I'm interested in all that often, and dating a slew of people I know would drive me nuts doesn't interest me at all. In fact, it would make me really, really cranky.

 

[Jwill]

I find that I am often in a conversation on a topic I've spent considerable time pondering. I'll mull over something for a period of years sometimes. When, in the conversation, opinions or points are expressed that I've already discarded (after extensive consideration), I come across as close-minded. I don't like coming across as close-minded but once I've identified what I see as a logical flaw or an inconsistency with the big picture, I am no longer open to the idea.

This is only the case where we feel we've developed an expertise. (i.e. spent a lot of time on). We are extremely open (and along the lines of the Ni vs Ti comments perhaps more open) to possibilities we are early in the process of evaluating.

I totally agree. I've been typed as an INTJ since I was a preteen. When I was younger, I was always called overly-opinionated, and I think I came across as close-minded. I've since learned to be a little more careful (maybe by developing the F side of my personality more).

I think it's important to remember that INTJs are usually very intuitive. They spend a lot of time sitting there thinking about different scenarios, and their Judging aspect makes them very good at discarding ideas that don't make sense. Nowadays, I try to be more tactful about shooting others' ideas down, but as a child, I had a lot less patience and understanding of emotional responses to do that. INTJ are categorized as the most open-minded of the types. I, personally, love brainstorming with other people because I love adopting and/or discarding ideas as they come. But I am an INTJ. I'll be pretty discriminating about what I do adopt/discard.

 

[GargoylesLegacy]

From what I have seen so far (my best best best friend is an INTP), we are very much alike, only that he is a little more into going outside than me and I am a bit more organized than him.
In addition I can say that it seems INTPs are less interested in ending stuff; meaning they are better at starting than finishing. INTJs are more likely going to start something and actually end it. Oh and INTPs are a little more emotional than INTJs of course.
In the end we are very much alike, but we seem to balance the other quite good anyways.

Another thing that I noticed about INTPs is that it seems they can be quite arrogant if they are very young (or just if they aren't mature yet). At least I had an INTP friend that was younger than me, and he was that way. People always say that INTJs are pretty arrogant, but we are sh*t against that guy.

 

[INA]

I've known two INTP personalities, one of them very well, the other as a co-worker.

Both of them have the following in common:

1. Cynicism - Aimed at the world in general... for no apparent reason that they want to voice.
2. Twisted sense of humor. Sometimes pretty dark...
3. Very direct one-liners. When they open their mouths, people have a tendency to just gape at them.
4. Single and seemingly NOT interested in dating
5. Suspicious and disbelieving of everything they hear in general.
6. Very good at pinpointing when someone is BSing them and almost eerily intuitive and able to read people. You get the feeling that they look right through you.
7. Both VERY smart and know the damdest things at the drop of a hat... and if you try to talk about something but are incorrect, they have no qualms about correcting you, but only after smirking at you long enough for you to finally ask 'What's so funny?!'
8. Did I mention they both tend to dislike most people in general? I hear 'People are Stupid' an aweful lot.
9. When in close and friendly conversations, they are witty, charming and extremely funny... but don't piss them off! They can glare the most bone-chilling gaze at you and go dead silent before dropping something so dead-on-the-money in your lap to shut you up before you can blink.

I had just repped Misty, but decided to post here as well...this list sounds a lot like me. Though I wouldn't say I'm un-interested in dating--I just don't find someone specific that I'm interested in all that often, and dating a slew of people I know would drive me nuts doesn't interest me at all. In fact, it would make me really, really cranky.

Ditto.

 

[TPol]

^ (smirk) What I just told Tallulah in a rep comment.

This is just my personal experience with INTPs vs. INTJs...INTPs are open minded, warm, very caring, but they are sort of smothering. They always want you to initiate conversations with them, and you're always making most of the effort in communication. Once they warm up to you, they are very open, but still, they keep talking and talking and don't know when to stop sometimes and give you space and breathing room.

Both are very different. If I had to choose, I rather hang out with INTPs! (aside from the fact that they are very clingy!)...

I know you clarified that this is your personal experience, but this is really quite surprising to me. Admittedly, I know only one other INTP in real life besides me. Both of us have been accused of the opposite...a lot. Also, very few online seem this way to me. I'm often told I am too independent, don't talk enough, hard to get to know, not showing my feelings enough, etc. If my friends heard someone call me clingy, they'd guffaw.

Are the INTPs you know really young? Are you sure you typed them correctly?

 

[MacGuffin]

Yeah, wtf?

INTPs are open minded, warm, very caring, but they are sort of smothering.

 

[TPol]

((eye roll)) You and your Dark Force ways.

Normal INTPs really are open minded, warm, very caring, nice, kind, considerate, innocent, sweet...

EDIT: I just asked INTJ hubby if I strike him as clingy, and he mentioned that a bunch of us probably use fabric softener. (smirk)

 

[nozflubber]

I have a homosexual friend who is a math grad student (INTJ of course!) and defies most of the descriptions in this thread about about INTJ emotions and "not considering your opinion". I had him pegged as an ENF_ for the longest while, so I think these descriptions are extremely biased

 

[duende]

I know you clarified that this is your personal experience, but this is really quite surprising to me. Admittedly, I know only one other INTP in real life besides me. Both of us have been accused of the opposite...a lot. Also, very few online seem this way to me. I'm often told I am too independent, don't talk enough, hard to get to know, not showing my feelings enough, etc. If my friends heard someone call me clingy, they'd guffaw.

I was thinking about something related just this morning, but it had to do with the Enneagram variant stackings. I can see where some people would experience me, an INTP, as clingy and overwhelming, but I think it has more to do with my primary sexual variant interacting with their self preservation variant than with my being INTP. In an interesting one-on-one interaction, my focus and my desire for intense conversation would probably look like clingy talkiness to someone whose primary variant is self-preservation, or even social.

 

[TPol]

Interesting. I'll have to think on this some more. If someone knows a vast amount more about a subject that interests me, especially through first-hand experience, I'll find it hard to pull myself away from listening to them about it. That could be a form of clingy-ness as you mention, perhaps.