EJCC
The Devil of TypoC
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2008
- Messages
- 19,129
- MBTI Type
- ESTJ
- Enneagram
- 1w9
- Instinctual Variant
- sp/so
That's not a factor at all, no. The thing about Te is that it focuses on changing the things in its external environment. Impersonal objects, concepts, trends. Personal needs and concerns are handled on this scale, from my experience, from 1 to 4:Would you care to explore this? It sounds just like my dad. He guilt trips in obvious intent to create change and seems obvious to creating suffering in others.
He made my 3 year old daughter run to her room crying with his guilt tripping and he expressed no emotion. He also didn't have any emotion when he told my daughter that it makes him sad when she does what she wants rather than rather than what he wanted.
Do you care about the hurting others when you guilt trip? Or is this not a factor? Do you care after the fact? Or, as long as change occurred, it is OK?
1 - Personal needs ignored altogether
2 - 10 minutes to several days later: "Oh shit, there were feelings involved there. Whoops."
3 - Personal needs realized in the moment, and then handled awkwardly
4 - Personal needs anticipated and then handled professionally
You're not the first NFJ to assume that ESTJs not only notice that sort of emotional fallout, but plan it in a malicious way. Since I joined the forum I've had to talk down a lot of NFJs -- especially INFJs -- who assumed that, because they can't imagine what it must feel like for people to not have all that Fe information coming at them from all sides, which as I understand it is the main curse of being an INFJ. It's like sensory overload for you folks, but we ESTJs have to be trained to notice it.
The only way I've learned to handle that kind of personal fallout -- and I'd like to think I usually land between 3 and 4 on the above scale -- is by treating those needs like I would treat any other impersonal factor in a situation. Worst case scenario I come across as very condescending, like I'm "handling" people in sensitive moments. But even that is better than ignoring the sensitive moments altogether.
This is almost the exact sort of situation that I was thinking of, when I said that I can accidentally guilt trip people. All I need to do is be a perfectionist in their presence, and any hint of a link between my habits and those of the other person will make them think that I'm disparagingly contrasting them with me.I was actually thinking, that if we were in a proffessional situation or academic you might be able to, because perfectionist do that to me, like i see them doing all this stuff and getting like 90s on everything and 100s and organizing the pens by color and ink level, and some of them (maybe not you) tend to call me lazy and blah blah blah because mostly i am, but also how do you know how much ink level is in the pen? and i don't work with people watching, so i work quietly in private alone. and the pens can organize themselves