[MBTI General] Getting Along With ESFJ's

[Little Linguist]

Okay, I don't get why several people on here nitpick over SJs and ESFJs in particular. Imagine if there were no SJs...our lives would be chaotic shitboxes. I think these people are freaking AWESOME - they bring order, structure and security. They are the ones that make things happen! They are the ones that do the shitty jobs the rest of us don't want to do because we're too 'good' or 'intelligent' or 'creative' for that kind of stuff. But ironically SJs are some of the brightest people I've ever met.

I had a roomie who is ISFJ (though sometimes I think that's her shadow, but I don't know). You could literally draw a line through our room. One side was hers and one was mine. Mine was perfectly organized, spartan, clean, bed always made. Desk always clear. Hers was full of piles of papers, clothes drying, bed messed up, etc. But it was cool because we RESPECTED each other. And she was very industrious, extremely hard-working, clever, bright, and good at almost everything. We had awesome discussions. She asked me about dealing with people and getting ideas; I asked her about various things. We hung out together and had the best fun. Alas, we were both pretty seclusive at that time, but we stuck together amid the stupidity and chaos and lack of moral foundation around us. And no matter what mistakes we made, we stuck to each other and were awesome friends. To this day, we still are.

This wonderful SJ has made my life a better place. And I want to say how much I love you guys, and don't listen to these other people ratting on you, because they have probably (alas) only seen NEGATIVE examples of UNHEALTHY SJs. Healthy, balanced SJs like my roommate and friend are absolutely wonderful individuals.

My grandmother, as annoying as she can be sometimes (God bless her), without her I wouldn't be here today. She took me on as her own daughter although we aren't even blood related. She was retired, could have had fun and whatever, but she raised me and even through rough financial times always made sure all my needs were met. She really is a wonderful woman. And thank GOD she is sJ (or EnFJ not sure) because I didn't have to worry about all this crap like decorating shit and organizing parties and hosting and all that stuff I couldn't give two beans about. She bought my clothes because I am a fashion ZERO and all that good stuff. She is just - amazing.

So all you guys, stop ratting on these wonderful people. Unhealthy SPs and NTs and NFs are just as much of a pain in the ass as unhealthy SJs (perhaps even more so). Damn. Give it a rest.

 

[Saslou]

Had this thread been around 3 months ago, i would of got upset over it due to being very sensitive.
Today, i thought it was cute and i lol'd at it.

Yeah, we have our problems just like any other type. What's new.
A year ago i would of been able to relate to a lot of what has been said.
Today i am in a healthy place so i am able to laugh.

Funny thing is my mum i believe is an ESFp and she drives me insane. She comes round and cleans my house, she talks forever on the phone and will tell me things she has told me previously. Grrr, lol. She is a very emotional woman who i feel won't cut the apron strings.
Never mind, she is who she is.

I have realised though, when i go into my obsessive robot cleaning mode, its due to stress which i don't handle very well. It's my way of removing myself from a situation.

So it is 2.27pm, i am still in my PJ's, i have just washed last nights pots and at some point i am going to put the hoover around .. Ahhhhh, that doesn't sound very ESFJ does it now???? lmao

 

[Little Linguist]

^^^ Sas, that is freaking awesome. See? That's why I illustrated the example with my ISFJ friend. Everyone would say, "Holy Crap!!! That's an ISFJ?!" She was a great example that broke all the stereotypes - and I, the ENFx, I was the clean one who was persnickety. Gotta love irony.

 

[Charmed Justice]

So all you guys, stop ratting on these wonderful people. Unhealthy SPs and NTs and NFs are just as much of a pain in the ass as unhealthy SJs (perhaps even more so). Damn. Give it a rest.

I think it's great that you have had such a wonderful time with healthy SJs, but clearly your personal experience it not universal. There are questions out there concerning how to deal with certain SP types(http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/sp-arthouse/10562-how-do-you-deal-estps.html), NT types(The Unhealthy INTP [Archive] - Typology Central), and a pretty long "Hate an ENFP" thread(http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/nf-idyllic/2193-hate-enfp-tell-us-why.html). Many people probably come here(especially NFs) to figure out how to work out their issues with a specific type of person.

Seeing as SJs make up almost half of the population, and many NFs have SJ parents or bosses; from a purely statistical perspective, there are going to be a lot of people on here who have encountered numerous toxic SJs. Yes, toxic NFs and NTs and SPs suck just as well, but us N types are much more difficult to find, and less likely to hold positions of power and authority.

Probably one of the main reasons forums like TC are predominantly N type is because it is difficult to find like-minded people irl who experience the same issues(relating to temperament) in their SJ dominant families and communities.

And also...
d@v3 is awesome, so I will keep an open mind.

 

[Little Linguist]

I got ya. Not ratting on you, either, just noticing a trend here.

While we're at it, I'd love to see a thread on how to deal with ISTPs because those guys just stump me. Or actually, one in particular.

 

[MrRandom]

I got ya. Not ratting on you, either, just noticing a trend here.

Are you saying you noticed it only now? Each type and temperament has numerous hate threads. And love threads. This one is about how to get along with ESFJs. Naturally we are going to share our experiences, good and bad. Especially the bad, so we can learn to cope with them (which is the point of this thread).

Basically you're implying that some of us are poisoning the air here. I don't think it'd be any help at all if all of us wrote disclaimers like this to all of our posts:

"What I just wrote doesn't necessarily apply to every person of this type. It doesn't apply to all SJs. It may not represent a healthy version of the type. It may be biased. It only represents the negatives aspects of the type. NFs, NTs and SPs can all suck too. And maybe even more so!"

Stating how every type can suck is a waste of paper. Too bad we're on the internet

 

[OrangeAppled]

Someone doesn't have to be "unhealthy" to have negative qualities and flaws either. And whatever the positives of the SJs in my life, I still find certain areas rough in dealing with them because we're coming from such a different perspective. I think that's what this thread is about, dealing with the differences and minor annoyances, not bashing an entire type.

 

[hokie912]

I think ESFJs are pretty awesome most of the time. They're outgoing and friendly, and they put effort into making you feel at ease and cared about. They're practically-minded but can be infectiously passionate about the things they love. They make the world work.

That said, I've experienced significant communication problems with ESFJs, and unhealthy ESFJs are just the worst to deal with. I can't put my finger on how, exactly, but the SFJ and NFJ values systems clash in some senses. I don't really understand the logic behind some of the things my SFJ friends/acquaintances feel strongly about, and I'm sure they feel the same way about my values.

Unhealthy ESFJs are a headache. Histrionic, passive-aggressive, and extremely difficult to reach. Unhealthy individuals of any type are frustrating, but ESFJs are probably going to share their issues with everyone around them. They seek "advice," but sometimes what they want is for someone to confirm what their feelings tell them to do, and so they selectively listen to what you say.

As for getting along with them... well, I would say focus on the positives. My life would be a less interesting place without the wonderful ESFJs in it. I try to keep communication lines open and be patient if there are miscommunications (which, honestly, isn't all too often). And sometimes just disengage when things get to be too much to deal with.

 

[Lightyear]

ESFJs, ESFJs... Tricky subject. I love their strengths to bits (They are soo caring!!) but apart from my best friend (who is an ESFJ) I am going to keep a bit of distance to the ESFJs in my life. I know a lot of them and our relationships always seem to follow the same pattern: We are drawn to each others' Fe (hugs and encouragment and caring vibes!), they really appreciate that I am a good listener but then never stop talking and never truly get to know me (I always remain the calm, kind, quiet one in their perception.) and if I try to show a bit more of myself they either don't get me (N-S clash) or just don't stop talking long enough for me to actually add something to the conversation and show them that there is much more to me than meets the eye. Great friends but I need my distance and being in a relationship with one might drive me slightly insane.

 

[LunaIndigo]

I've had two different experiances with ESFJ's. One is a girl I know in college whose in almost all of my classes and she is just awesome. She's funny, always willing to help, and an excellent partner for class projects. My bad experiance would be with my ESFJ MIL. She is definitely an unhealthy version of ESFJ. I used to think she was an ESTJ, but her histrionic tendencies told me other wise. She's manipulative, over dramatic about everything, you can't tell her any secrets or she'll blab them all over town, paranoid, and overly controlling. I put on my nice face around her and act pleasent but you should hear my inner monologue. It's not pretty.

 

[Drezoryx]

easily panics. low mental stamina. u have to shout to get them to calm down and get yur word through. a little dumb and controlling.

overall happy.

 

[proteanmix]

I'm really surprised other Fe-doms have problems communicating with ESFJs.

Since my S/N are very close, I don't have very many issues with ESFJs. I generally find them to be cheerful and real (real as in they are reachable and responsive) people. I have met the nightmare ones, but then I've met nightmare versions of nearly every type.

BTW, I'm breaking into histrionics as I write this post.

 

[Drezoryx]

^ thats because they are in close relations to us. if they weren't we couldnt be bothered as much

 

[chris1207]

If you don't want an ESFJ going through your things all you have to do is this:

Next time you notice that she's gone through your stuff, say

"How's your ankle feel?"

When she gives you a confused look you say

"I thought you may have sprained it tripping over my collection of _____(insert crazy raunchy genre a la bukkake) porn!"

That'll get them to not do it again

 

[lorkan]

chris_1207 and slumdogtrillionair's advices are both good.

NFJ's really need to create a thicker skin to deal with SFJ's, because SFJ's can actually be genuinely mindless and needs to be shouted to (to create Se-structure as ESTP's more naturally does). Both your Se and Fe will get strong excercises and when you've got the dominance they won't bother you anymore. But It's the step from being a calm, sensitive NFJ to becoming a controling and willstrong NFJ that is the challange.

SJ's and NP's can't handle Se-confrontation very well so I would go for that. Trying to do something Ni-ish like talking to a friend to set your ESFJ friend straight will be a big mistake because the ESFJ will keep coming back then. Only YOU set your own boundaries. Take you Se control and gain the respect you desire, it will not come to you freely.

 

[ster]

I usually just let them feel like they're having things their way.
I just try realizing that we function differently... perhaps if I had their personality I wouldn't be able to help the way I am...

If they get too invasive, I just set up some squishy colorful walls. Or I just smile and pretend to appreciate the concern (which, a lot of times I actually DO appreciate the advice... because their strengths are my weaknesses, and vv). Oftentimes we can discuss our differences and make amendments. It really works on the healthier ones. Just be pleasant, don't show an attitude or the cold shoulder or the "what the heck are you talking about, you're stupid" look.

IF they're unhealthy, well... it's hard to work with anyone unhealthy.

I'll need to have cooled down in order to not launch into a fiery argument for sure.

Be friendly and assertive. I'm not sure how that _doesnt_ work.

 

[Snuggletron]

lol, my mom is also an ESFJ. We get along very well actually. But she can talk my ear off sometimes -_-

She's also a very typical SJ, very family-oriented, traditional when it comes to religious beliefs, etc. We find common ground through joking around with each other, though.

 

[raindancing]

My mom is an unhealthy ESFJ and I have always had a lot of trouble dealing with her. Last year when I was visiting my parents things came to a head and I confronted her about it for the first time.

I won't bore you all with the details of what was happening, but I ended up telling her that what she was saying/doing wasn't ok. I explained how it made me feel when she said those things and acted in that way, I told her that I understood she felt X, but that didn't make it ok for her to treat me that way. I don't know, there was more but I'd have to think to remember it all.

Anyway, she ended up crying, but she stood there and listened to what I told her. I didn't get emotional, I just told her exactly how her acting like that made me feel.

Since then I have only had one or two episodes with her (normally I would have had many, many more), both times I called her on her behaviour and again explained how it made me feel.
She actually apologized!!@*#(! The first apology I think I've ever had from her.

I read about setting boundaries like this this from reading books on borderline personality disorder... I don't know if she actually has that, but there are certainly a lot of similarities.


I've dealt with other ESFJs who didn't have these issues and I haven't really had trouble dealing with them. It's been more that I have a hard time being interested in the same things. They always want to talk about things that are boring to me, they seem to assume that as a woman I should be interested in them. *shrug*

 

[the state i am in]

both esj types are my most consistently negative interactions.

i think what lorkan said is right on the money, especially with esfj 3w2 dudes (my most awful interaction).

when esfjs get tired and a little looser with tertiary Ne they sometimes seem more interesting (older ones probably too). still, inferior Ti with very little N = no thanks. the inability to re-frame OR use logical analysis OR relating personally via real Fi is totally utterly disastrous. i think i even prefer estj (but barely). istj and isfj, on the other hand, are easily to get along with (unless the isfj is your boss and making terrible decisions).

 

[Rachelinpa]

I try to focus on their good qualities--great hostesses, emotional support...

But to be honest, I'm not CLOSE friends with any of them anymore cause I can't really stand them... haahahaha. I do actually have one "close" ESFJ friend, but she lives in another state than I do, so I think that counts as distance. If she lived closer, I bet I would die. Sometimes she goes on these rants about things... it completely grates on my nerves, but when it gets to the point that I can't take it anymore, I just tell her.

Yeah, I would say avoid. Maybe not healthy, but I can't deal with it. ESFJ men are totally different. I like them.