[NF] Fi AND Fe go together perfectly.

[Metis]

Here is my brilliant realization.

Oh, sorry, you don't know me, but I read posts on this forum occasionally when I google something and your posts come up in the search results.

I've been well-familiar with MBTI for about 2.5 to 3 decades. So familiar that, like many of you, I often overthink it.

Here's the realization:

You can develop both Fi and Fe and have these functions support each other mutually.

Here is my typological background:
0 - ~18 years: INTP, according to someone else.
~18 for about a month: INFP, just trying it out, but I was forcing it, so it didn't fit.
Later, for several years or even over a decade: INFJ, because that's what we all do (ok, some do).

Recently, I am realizing that if I just observe and assess my habitual ways of doing things, I look like an INFP according to a lot of descriptions. FiNeSiTe. That is without trying to conform myself to my image of what a particular type should be. I always had a problem of doing that, and now that I'm too old to feel like fighting to be someone I think I want to be, and I have more life behind me to observe and compare against type descriptions, I feel I can be more honest with myself.

Now that I believe myself to be Fi dom rather than Ni dom, I feel that I can actually develop my Fi function and become more true to myself and to what I actually feel. While I was trying to be NiFe, I was already developing Fe, because that's what I thought was my role in life. However, due to adverse circumstances, I also for some period of time developed a very false type of Fe to appease others in order to keep myself safe. There was nothing sincere about this Fe, and it corroded my sense of self to a great degree. In large part, I have since recovered from that, but one thing that did was to aggravate my sense of integrity within myself. It was a sort of dissociation. Maybe it was in fact an action of Te, because I had to do what was effective, not what made me feel right and self-respecting. So I showed a false Fe, and I also betrayed my Fi, long-term, to save my ass.

Anyway, so after this and as I was struggling to regain my moral and spiritual strength after negotiating it into oblivion, I still thought I was an INFJ, so I actively worked to use my Fe in order to interact effectively with others. What I now realize is that most of the time that I thought I was using Fe, I was actually using something more like Ne as a means of expression, rather than as a perceiving tool. Rather than being socially graceful, charismatic and warm, I was acting like a goofy dork around people and thinking that made me more socially apt.

Now I realize that my Fi was knocking at my door all this time, and I was engaged in a struggle to have cognitive functions that were not coming naturally, and to ignore the ones that were trying to act (and were acting, but not by co-operating with my conscious will). I realize now that I need to strengthen my relationship with Fi and become truer to how I really feel and believe in my soul. I need that sense of inner Integrity to regrow.

At the same time, I am also realizing that the more I listen to my heart about my beliefs and personal spiritual needs, the more I also can be Fe charisma and magnanimity towards others, not because I need them to perceive me in a particular way in the interest of my personal safety, but because I am genuinely interested in hearing their stories and supporting them with a kind, compassionate, and friendly way of being towards them. By taking care of my Fi and allowing it to work with me, I also increase my capacity to express genuine Fe towards others.

If I were only do the Fe thing and not developing a stronger relationship with Fi, I would be everybody's punk, which is how I felt when I was doing that during that period when my personal safety was at stake. Not even a doormat. Just everyone's kicking object.

Fi supports Fe.

Despite the theoretical order of cognitive functions, I now believe that Fi and Fe can be mutually supporting within the same person's psyche. I am excited about this thought, and I look forward to paying attention to the development of both of these functions in my life and mind.

 

[Forever]

I still don't see the connection that Fi supports Fe for me other than possibly in a conventional sense, could you state that more explicitly? Perhaps I'm not seeing what you're intending.

Thanks.

Here's what I understand: Fi will help you find your true self (true)
And Fe will make you more of a social grace and the two harmonize to an especially wonderful person. (great)

But if it feels novel for you, than I am glad you found it.

ETA: Thanks for the blue.

So glad you figured it out.

 

[Metis]

Thank you for the hug!

I'm just trying to recover my soul. I don't think it makes one especially wonderful to develop Fi and Fe both. I think it's probably actually a normal occurrence that psychologically healthy people develop both of these and probably other e/i pairs of the same function as they grow. I just didn't realize it until now.

I thought I had to, like, specialize.

 

[Forever]

Well, I just see it the same for any other element Ti+Te Si+Se Ni+Ne all are necessary to make a person whole. For most people in their life time, individuation will just be the sun on the horizon, but nevertheless a goal worth pursuing anyway.

I see now lol, we wrote practically the same thing for my first part I get it.

Got to start somewhere, right?

 

[EonsInTheNight]

I think it's safe to assume everybody has 8 functions, for the simple fact that we're all part of the same species, thus the differences between each other as pysche goes is one of combination of elements rather than some people lacking functions that other have. Even all matter at its basics, it's a combination of the same elements: protons, neutrons, quarks etc. Of course there are dark-matter, anti-matter and stuff like that, but obviously people are not that different as matter and dark-matter etc.
Thus, the 4 function model seems an over-simplification. Everyone has all the 8 functions but in different order.

Now, I think a good way to determine what functions each types has in what order is what the function has in common with the type: for example, Fi is I-F-P, Ne is E-N-P, N is I-N-J. As such, INFPs have more of Fi than any other functions, thus Fi dominance. Now, the interesting part is that Ne and Ni should be in equal parts, yet is accepted that INFP is Fi-Ne, because the aux has to balance the dominant.
So what happens with the Ni?
It's there, INFPs recognizes in themselves, yet Si and even Te seems more visible than Ni?
My answer: it's overshadowed by Ne. That is, since Ne and Ni share similar characteristics, Ni stays in the shadow of Ne, it adds intuitive input in INFPs but it never gets to form singular connections that Ne would reject in its openess to exploration.
As such, Ni is like a servant to the overall type, that is always there, but is rarely visible because is eclipsed by Ne.
Same with Ti being eclipsed by Fi, Fe by Fi and Se by Ne. By contrast, Si shares less in common with Ne than Ni or Se, thus when Si appears it's more visible. That is, Si is not really more strong in INFPs than Ni, it's simply more visible and easier to separate. Sure, INFPs can focus on their Si like they can't with their Ni, but that's because Si is easier to pin-point down and work on it, while Ni is elusive, Si is like a fish that swims lower but you can see and capture if you go deep enough, Ni is higher but you only see traces of it.

I think Ni is easier to pin-point in INTPs tough, because it's easier for them to hold on a singular world-view than ENTPs, which some may say it's Ti over Ne, but I think it's also a subconscious Ni need for that one ultimate answer.

This shadowed functions don't appear in pure form but they definitely add characteristics to the type. It's easier to see it in extroverts.
For example, the need of popularity in EFPs, being in the center of attention and the ability to know how to make themselves liked, is a Fe characteristic in EFPs. Fi wouldn't be as concerned with this things, and neither the Pe since Pe itself is just about gathering information, it's a shadowed but neverteless very present Fe.

Or look at ESJ and their Se like forcefulness.
Or let's look at their ISPs. They're the craftsman of arts, the most perfectionists types with visuals and music. The Se is good with manipulating light and sounds, and Si gives depth to those Se aesthetics, in a way that doesn't characterizes their ESP brothers and sisters that much.

I also think the Fi in INFJs is a given, just look at how many identify with type 4, or look like authors like Dostoyevski or Yukio Mishima and tell me they lack Fi-ish traits.

Defenders of the 4 function model will claim it's just looks like this would be the case, and come with all kinds of excuses of way the Fe-ish traits in EFPs are just behavioristic traits or a matter of individual differences but to me it sounds like dodging the question and making excuses of why it's the lack of knowledge of others that denies their simplistic models, rather than the model showing again and again that it's flawed and simplified.

There's also a way of complicating the function with big words to make it look like Fi or Fe for example are the complete opposite of each-other, like matter and anti-matter and thus aren't able to exist in a single type. But Fe can't be anything else but a kind of Feeling that its extroverted in focus, and Fi can't be anything else but Fi that's introverted in focus. Different sets of traits follow from their different focus, but they still share a common ground, thus they're able to compliment each other.

So basically the 4 function model that excludes half of the functions rests on:
-Appeal to behaviorism to justify contradictions in the system.
-Divisive and intellectualized language to make function appear more in contradiction with each-other than they are.

The shadowed nature of half of function, which basically manifest in an impure sort of way, due to their closness to similar function, would be easier to explain why for example, many INFPs identified with INTP (Ti dominants) or INFJ (Ni dominants) despite Si being more visible on the surface than Ni or Ti.

So for me:
INFP -Fi Ne (Ni)/INTP -Ti Ne (Ni) :Ni used to give holistic cohesion to their philosophy gathered by Ne ways.
ISFP -Fi Se (Si)/ISTP -Ti Se (Si) :Si used to give individualization and depth to their Se aesthetics.
INFJ -Ni Fe (Fi)/ISFJ -Si Fe (Fi) :Fi used to gives a search for authenticity and emotional depth to INFJ,
or a sense inherent moral goodness to ISFJs.
INTJ -Ni Te (Ti)/ISTJ -Si Te (Ti) :I think Ti is easier to see in INTJs, with their logic being less by the book
than other TJ types, not sure how it manifest in ISTJs.
ENFP -Ne Fi (Fe)/ESFP -Se Fi (Fe) :Fe gives them a liking for social popularity and an innate knowledge of
how to get it.
ESFJ -Fe Si (Se)/ESTJ -Te Si (Se): Gives them a more in your face, charged personality than ISJs.
ENFJ -Fe Ni (Ne)/ENTJ -Te Ni (Ne): Not quite sure.
ENTP -Ne Ti (Te)/ESTP -Se Ti (Te): More pragmatic and practical minder than their ITPs counterpart, who
have a more uncompromising Fi like quality by contrast.

 

[anticlimatic]

You're confusing Fe with Te. It happens.

The difference is that Te gives a shit about the minutiae of what people have to say, while Fe only cares about the look on their face.

 

[Forever]

You're confusing Fe with Te. It happens.

The difference is that Te gives a shit about the minutiae of what people have to say, while Fe only cares about the look on their face.

What.

This is wrong on so many levels...

 

[anticlimatic]

What.

This is wrong on so many levels...

This is wrong on only one level.

 

[Forever]

This is wrong on only one level.

It's brash ignorance I say.

 

[anticlimatic]

It's brash ignorance I say.

Perhaps you misunderstood. It happens.

 

[1487610420]

no

 

[EonsInTheNight]

I don't know what's with this tendency to take the 4 function model for granted just because someone wrote so in a book or a popular site uses it to type popular with sometimes silly results. Take Celebrity Types and Lana del Rey. They saw Fi dom in interviews and Si so they typed her INFP planning when she's a more than clear S type, thus ISFP with a more conscious Si.