Fear of Rejection

[jenocyde]

I think it's common for ENTPs to feel depersonalized. In fact, I would guess that anxiety and depersonalization helps them watch the world run and link it up, which might be why they later get classified as NeTi, hence ENTP.

I totally agree with that, but I was referring more to the way you express yourself - at least in that particular post. The phrasing...

 

[Salomé]

those who fear rejection the most are the ones who get rejected the most. A self-fulfilling prophecy.

Yup. People believe the hype.

I'm not sure I have a fear of rejection, even though someone observing my behavior would probably say that I do. I think I have a fear of acceptance, as odd as that sounds. I like being able to hold people at arm's length, and if I ever really connected with someone and built a relationship, I would no longer be able to be an island.

Fear of acceptance and fear of rejection would probably both manifest the same way - withholding feelings, being wary of opening up, shutting down at the drop of a hat.

+1

 

[Mole]

I think being able to feel the pain of rejection is important.

We all tend to avoid pain - we blame the other person - we even blame ourselves - or we try to rationalise away the pain.

This is understandable as when we were little and dependent, rejection was a threat to our survival.

But now we are big, emotional rejection is not a threat to our survival, it is merely painful.

And indeed, how we handle rejection is a good test of character.

A person of good character wishes to remain in touch with all their feelings, even painful feelings.

And the benefit if having a good character is that you are in touch with all your feelings - the pleasurable feelings as well as the painful feelings.

Of course a person of bad character only wishes to be in touch with their good feelings - essentially they want to be a good child so that their parents will look after them - but in denying their bad feelings, they also lose touch with their pleasurable feelings.

And this is the touchstone of narcissism.

The narcissists can't bear the pain and pleasure of being in touch with another person. So the narcissists are entirely self referential - though they don't recognise this themselves.

But experiencing the pain of rejection will eventually return us to the pleasure of acceptance.

 

[sculpting]

I think being able to feel the pain of rejection is important.

We all tend to avoid pain - we blame the other person - we even blame ourselves - or we try to rationalise away the pain.

This is understandable as when we were little and dependent, rejection was a threat to our survival.

But now we are big, emotional rejection is not a threat to our survival, it is merely painful.

And indeed, how we handle rejection is a good test of character.

A person of good character wishes to remain in touch with all their feelings, even painful feelings.

And the benefit if having a good character is that you are in touch with all your feelings - the pleasurable feelings as well as the painful feelings.

Of course a person of bad character only wishes to be in touch with their good feelings - essentially they want to be a good child so that their parents will look after them - but in denying their bad feelings, they also lose touch with their pleasurable feelings.
And this is the touchstone of narcissism.

The narcissists can't bear the pain and pleasure of being in touch with another person. So the narcissists are entirely self referential - though they don't recognise this themselves.

But experiencing the pain of rejection will eventually return us to the pleasure of acceptance.

perhaps it is not that they deny the feelings but that they place a block/defese in place to prevent the bad feelings thus preventing the good feelings as well? The feelings are just not there. Also The idea of rejection as being an early survival mechanism is really fascinating. Haven't thought from that perspective.

If I am prepared for rejection than I function in mode that is maximum defense and I do not ever feel rejected or hurt. I dont feel. I can walk in a room with an angry mob and not care a bit. I do not care what others think of me in this mode.

If I am open and honest and unprepared for rejection it is like being stabbed through my soul and can hurt very much. I am way, way too sensitive to rejection in this state.

However there is value in Victor's point concening opening yourself to the rejection I think, and sufferring that pain.

 

[Mole]

However there is value in Victor's point concening opening yourself to the rejection I think, and sufferring that pain.

If the aim is a genuine relationship with another person, it is important to realise that pain and pleasure are part of the relationship.

In other words, the relationship is more important than the feelings of pain and pleasure.

At the same time, a relationship depends on our being able to feel our own pain and pleasure as well as the pain and pleasure of the the other.

If we try to short circuit this by avoiding emotional pain, we sell ourselves short, and of course the other person.

And with true poetic justice, if we avoid the pain, we will avoid the pleasure as well.

 

[Falcarius]

I always thought my problem was fear of intimacy rather than fear of rejection, but coming to think of it maybe my fear of intimacy is a symptom of having a fear of rejection.

I don't really have a problem with rejection per se in terms of say romantic relationships. My problem is I fear getting close to people emotionally and intellectually. It partly stems from the fact my parents were emotionally neglectful at times and my interaction with the first girl I truly loved. Who I seemed to have rejected at least twice, the first time because of fear of rejection as I had low self esteem at the time and the second time as I had various personal problems.

So these days I am more or less a recluse as I worry I may get hurt by people, just like I felt in my childhood at times from my parents. Or I might accidentally hurt someone else, like I seemed to have done to that girl who I only let go as I loved her so much that I did not want to burden her with my problems. Despite the fact ever since I been trying to explain my behaviour and apologise to her, she now tends to just run away from me these days.

 

[Salomé]

emotional rejection is not a threat to our survival, it is merely painful.

Yup. Don't know why you have to bring good vs. bad and your usual judging mindset into it tho...

So the narcissists are entirely self referential - though they don't recognise this themselves.

Ha!

I always thought my problem was fear of intimacy rather than fear of rejection, but coming to think of it maybe my fear of intimacy is a symptom of having a fear of rejection.

It's not the same thing. Fear of intimacy is tied up with fear of losing autonomy, of losing identity, of shutting off other options, of being exposed.
Fear of rejection is more primitive, as Victor has suggested, it stems from a survival mechanism. You can outthink it.

 

[Mole]

Don't know why you have to bring good vs. bad and your usual judging mindset into it tho...

Well, my dear old Bluemonday, a good life is based on good judgement.

But take a tip from me, ol' Blue, when they don't like the judgement you make, they call it judgemental.

So to call someone judgemental is simply emotional blackmail.

It is no more than calling the judge, mental.

It is simply an insult.

 

[Kasper]

I'm not sure I have a fear of rejection, even though someone observing my behavior would probably say that I do. I think I have a fear of acceptance, as odd as that sounds. I like being able to hold people at arm's length, and if I ever really connected with someone and built a relationship, I would no longer be able to be an island.

Fear of acceptance and fear of rejection would probably both manifest the same way - withholding feelings, being wary of opening up, shutting down at the drop of a hat.

Very interesting, I can't figure out what that would be like. I understand wanting freedom and not feeling tied down and obligated but I'd guess that's different to a fear of acceptance. Can you elaborate?

Ultimately the NT is not afraid of the rejection of the other person.
Guilt is not found in the other. It is a home base.

Absolutely. That's what it is for me anyway.

I think being able to feel the pain of rejection is important.

But what about the unrealised fear? Actual rejection is quite different to an irrational fear.

 

[Mole]

Fear of rejection is more primitive, as Victor has suggested, it stems from a survival mechanism. You can outthink it.

You can also just feel the fear.

No emotion lasts forever, so if you allow yourself to feel it, it will transform into another feeling.

But if you block it, it will be continually trying to express itself, and so not give any other feeling a chance.

 

[Mole]

But what about the unrealised fear? Actual rejection is quite different to an irrational fear.

All feelings are irrational. So fear is necessarily irrational.

However if you allow yourself to feel any feeling it will pass and transform into another feeling.

And after you have fully felt the feeling, then it is time to think about it and understand it.

 

[Salomé]

So to call someone judgemental is simply emotional blackmail.

It is no more than calling the judge, mental.

If the cap fits....

It is simply an insult.

Whereas calling someone "bad" is a compliment, I'm supposing?

You can also just feel the fear.

No emotion lasts forever, so if you allow yourself to feel it, it will transform into another feeling.

But if you block it, it will be continually trying to express itself, and so not give any other feeling a chance.

Don't believe in irrational fears. Fear makes one ineffective. I prefer to think.

But what about the unrealised fear? Actual rejection is quite different to an irrational fear.

QFT

EDIT

All feelings are irrational. So fear is necessarily irrational.

Some fear has an entirely rational basis.

 

[Delilah]

I find I spend too much time worrying about being everything to everyone out of fear of rejection that I'm rarely myself as a result. It's not that I'm fake, just always on guard, ready to bolt.

Rejection and fear of failure, I have been spinning my reasoning behind those fears a lot lately. The problem for me now, is how to break out of it.
I have already made my case to myself, on why the fear is reasonable and why it is a good idea to keep nearly all humans at arms length (or further) and every argument to the contrary has already been dismissed.
I just don't see the logical upside for changing my ways. All the arguments about "feeling good" and "being happy" and "opening up" sounds like a bunch of hippy voodoo to me.

 

[Mole]

If the cap fits....

Whereas calling someone "bad" is a compliment, I'm supposing?

I don't know why we have to continually keep on fighting Blue.

I don't actually believe your pugnacity.

So why keep trotting it out to me?

It seems to me that your pugnacity is to hide something vulnerable within yourself.

So the next time you feel like being pugnacious with me, just pause and ask yourself what is your most vulnerable feeling.

And then tell me.

And in return, I will tell you my vulnerable feeling.

So in this way we will transform a vicious circle into a virtuous circle.

 

[Salomé]

^ :rolli:
I'm not fighting. I'm debating. I do that when someone is wrong.

 

[Mole]

^ :rolli:
I'm not fighting. I'm debating. I do that when someone is wrong.

Well, let me take another tack -

When you tell me I am wrong, I feel hurt.

And when I feel hurt, my first impulse is to hurt back.

This of course sets up a vicious cycle.

And I would prefer not to be in a vicious cycle with you. I would prefer to be in a virtuous circle with you.

How do you think we might do this?

 

[Salomé]

Well, let me take another tack -

When you tell me I am wrong, I feel hurt.

And when I feel hurt, my first impulse is to hurt back.

This of course sets up a vicious cycle.

And I would prefer not to be in a vicious cycle with you. I would prefer to be in a virtuous circle with you.

How do you think we might do this?

That's 'cos you're an NF. And you fear rejection and crave affirmation from women.

I don't know how to help you with that.

 

[Mole]

That's 'cos you're an NF. And you fear rejection and crave affirmation from women.

I don't know how to help you with that.

Well, you have got me snookered.

No matter what I suggest you come back with the same negativity.

Negativity is fine in its place, but when it is compulsive, it becomes tiresome.

You are now quite out of my reach.

 

[Salomé]

Well, you have got me snookered.

No matter what I suggest you come back with the same negativity.

Negativity is fine in its place, but when it is compulsive, it becomes tiresome.

You are now quite out of my reach.

Honey, it was always thus.

 

[Halla74]

I'm wondering how big of a role fear of rejection plays in your relationships and what it stems from.

I have no fear as such, if I get rejected by someone I care about in some capacity, then it surely doesn't feel good, and I don't like it, but I do not place fear of potential/future rejection at the front end of my decisions as to how to interact with people. I get over things quickly, I always have, my Mother hated it that I was so forgiving. I do learn from my mistakes though, and if rejection occurrs and is hurtful, I hold the other person accountable for their actions and will not give them the same place in my life until they have apologized, demonstrated sincere regret, and make an effort to earn my trust back over time. People fuck up, I have before and been forgiven and it was a huge relief, but there is a right way to do it, and you can't let people walk all over you. Sometimes you have to tell people to fuck off, the effort entailed in restoring things is too great and too much a bother, but you don't know until you try to figure all that out. Life can be very hard sometimes in this capacity, and the people that can hurt you most are those that are closest to you. What a cluster fuck!

NTs are notorious for withholding their deeper feelings from others and can take a long time to truly open up but shut down in a matter of seconds if the other persons reaction is unexpected or unwanted.

SPs are not, but we are human and can get miffed if treated the wrong way.

So what does it take for someone to get you to open up?

I open up a good bit on my own, just out of being me, but I do of course hold back my important personal details until a good amount of trust is established. For them to demonstrate to me that they like me, appreciate me, understand me, and accept me as I am, that will get me to open up.

What role does fear of rejection play in your relationships (not just romantic ones)?

None. I set out to do what I need to, if rejection happens I move on. Don't like my idea? Your loss. Don't want to go to the prom with me? Your loss. I have high self esteem, and I know what I have to offer.

And how is this linked to your self image?

Self image = I'm good to go!