Environment Debate.

[Numbly Aware]

Does your environment control you?
Then, does your environment affect you?

(Secretly, I'd like to see some ENTJs and their so called logical answers)

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

NOPE. Because I've chosen a life in which there is little risk to feel controlled.

Yes. That's why I choose honest and positive people that can enter my life.


Even if I'm an extrovert I get easily exhausted with people. I tend to have deep and intense interactions

and go back to my loneliness to charge my batteries, analyse my day, focus on the main things, so that I can plan another creative time ahead/

 

[Virtual ghost]

NOPE. Because I've chosen a life in which there is little risk to feel controlled.

Yes. That's why I choose honest and positive people that can enter my life.

Even if I'm an extrovert I get easily exhausted with people. I tend to have deep and intense interactions

and go back to my loneliness to charge my batteries, analyse my day, focus on the main things, so that I can plan another creative time ahead/

Just because you don't sense someone's control that doesn't mean that it isn't there.

 

[á´…eparted]

Everyone is controlled by their environment. Every creature alive is.

 

[cascadeco]

I am impacted by my environment, yes. I do think I can make choices to change my situation if I want to, however, so I don't exactly feel controlled by my environment. I can change many elements of my environment, though there are things that can't be changed - ie a basic need for food, water, shelter.

This seems like the 'do we actually have free will' philosophical thing, though....so I suppose it's how you look at it/ one could go round in circles on this topic.

 

[ceecee]

Everyone is controlled by their environment. Every creature alive is.

To a point. If something impacts me or my people, especially in a negative way - I'm going to control it or at least make changes in a positive way.

 

[á´…eparted]

To a point. If something impacts me or my people, especially in a negative way - I'm going to control it or at least make changes in a positive way.

Oh of course. That's not to say we can't do something about it. Nor does it say that we don't do any of the controlling ourselves.

 

[miss fortune]

for many of the best AND worst parts I was in control of my own environment and realizing that you created a really shitty situation for yourself fucking SUCKS because then you only have yourself to blame for it

yeah, that type of thing can impact you.. I made some really bad decisions at one point and I can say that it really had an impact on who I am now and as much as I'd like to say that the shit situations I got myself into were not my fault, I can't claim that because I know better than that

however, back on topic, no matter who you are your environment has a definite impact on your life and who you end up becoming and how you react to it does as well

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

Just because you don't sense someone's control that doesn't mean that it isn't there.

Explain yourself master ENTJ ! By doing so, The poor slave I am will tell you the truth

 

[Virtual ghost]

Explain yourself master ENTJ ! By doing so, The poor slave I am will tell you the truth

It is quite simple actually:

No matter what you do you will probably pay taxes of some kind
If OPEC (Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries) decides to mess with energy prices you will feel it
Why did you get any education ? Because you were though that this is for your own good (and it probably is but someone else channeled you into this)
How many buildings/roads did you construct in your life ? How many did you use ?
How many times did you decide to play along simply because you don't care eather way ?
Do you produce your own food or set laws regarding the standards or food production ?
Does your country have problems with crime or people who strike from the shadows ?
Did you ever wonder how your picture of the world came to be ?

Etc Etc.

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

It is quite simple actually:

No matter what you do you will probably pay taxes of some kind
If OPEC (Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries) decides to mess with energy prices you will feel it
Why did you get any education ? Because you were though that this is for your own good (and it probably is but someone else channeled you into this)
How many buildings/roads did you construct in your life ? How many did you use ?
How many times did you decide to play along simply because you don't care eather way ?
Do you produce your own food or set laws regarding the standards or food production ?
Does your country have problems with crime or people who strike from the shadows ?
Did you ever wonder how your picture of the world came to be ?

Etc Etc.

Some of those questions are quite interesting.

But that isn't control in the way I hear it myself.

Control is to me physical or psychological.

Did you ever wonder how your picture of the world came to be ?

Yes...but for most people it is unconscious anyway ! Psychology doesn't exist to make the slaves more submitted (and blind)...

I do belive in something one can't control to. You can't control your karma. What you must live you'll live it, whatever you do or don't do,

you'll have opportunities on your way...

You can change your own life, your way of thinking, your behaviour and attitude (with a lot of will, trust and control OVER YOURSELF)you can't change the world,

but you can change your environment by "small actions".

 

[Virtual ghost]

Some of those questions are quite interesting.

But that isn't control in the way I hear it myself.

Control is to me physical or psychological.

Did you ever wonder how your picture of the world came to be ?

Yes...but for most people it is unconscious anyway ! Psychology doesn't exist to make the slaves more submitted (and blind)...

I do belive in something one can't control to. You can't control your karma. What you must live you'll live it, whatever you do or don't do,

you'll have opportunities on your way...

You can change your own life, your way of thinking, your behaviour and attitude (with a lot of will, trust and control OVER YOURSELF)you can't change the world,

but you can change your environment by "small actions".

What I wrote is unromatic, but that doesn't mean that it is wrong.
Typical 1th worlder can effect their environment but the truth is that their environemnt effects them much more than they are willing to admit.

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

I agree with you. "Typical 1th wordless" is not me. I have a disgust for control (don't forget I have a strong wing 8).

I'm not directly controlled in my job. I prefer to leave a relationship where I feel controlled (that's why I left my last ENTJ).

I observe the world and how it works, I read quite a lot. I can assure you by believing (and practicing) you have an impact on the world,

much more than you can be controlled, it really works, and you view it differently.

That is of course, like everything, some daily efforts to develop step by step....


Should I give an important piece of information : I 'm not looking for power. I'm just not interested in power struggles.

I hate feeling controlled as well as I hate controlling others. That's none of my business.

I like to understand, master and feel secure in my environment. That is totally different.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I agree with you. "Typical 1th wordless" is not me. I have a disgust for control (don't forget I have a strong wing 8).

I'm not directly controlled in my job. I prefer to leave a relationship where I feel controlled (that's why I left my last ENTJ).

I observe the world and how it works, I read quite a lot. I can assure you by believing (and practicing) you have an impact on the world,

much more than you can be controlled, it really works, and you view it differently.

That is of course, like everything, some daily efforts to develop step by step....


Should I give an important piece of information : I 'm not looking for power. I'm just not interested in power struggles.

I hate feeling controlled as well as I hate controlling others. That's none of my business.

I like to understand, master and feel secure in my environment. That is totally different.

Yes, but just because you don't feel controled that doesn't mean you are not.
Everything you said is on local/personal level, however the actual control is subtle and on large scale level. (also control doesn't have to be a bad thing)


If it is easier for you to live with picture that you are not controled on some way then feel free to live like it. However on factual level you will not convince me that that you are free of control, since no one is.

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

Yes, but just because you don't feel controled that doesn't mean you are not.
Everything you said is on local/personal level, however the actual control is subtle and on large scale level. (also control doesn't have to be a bad thing)


If it is easier for you to live with picture that you are not controled on some way then feel free to live like it. However on factual level you will not convince me that that you are free of control, since no one is.

As "no one is" my personality and perception of the world make me focus on personal (and not local) level. Whatever the world becomes tomorrow I know how I wanna lead
my life and with which kind of surrounding. This is the most important thing to me.

And the way one chooses to lead one's life is the way that suits him/her best. Whatever happens outside, one must protect "his/her inside".
Control is not all about outside traps and tricks. It is also how you master your unconscious, what you choose to say or not say, what you choose to remember and focus on,
how conscious you are about yourself and your place in that crazy world and so on.

It is not "easier for me" as you said so. It is all the contrary. I'm not attracted by easy things.
Working on consciousness is not an easy thing. If you think so, well, let it be !

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

With subtitles

 

[Virtual ghost]

As "no one is" my personality and perception of the world make me focus on personal (and not local) level. Whatever the world becomes tomorrow I know how I wanna lead
my life and with which kind of surrounding. This is the most important thing to me.

And the way one chooses to lead one's life is the way that suits him/her best. Whatever happens outside, one must protect "his/her inside".
Control is not all about outside traps and tricks. It is also how you master your unconscious, what you choose to say or not say, what you choose to remember and focus on,
how conscious you are about yourself and your place in that crazy world and so on.

It is not "easier for me" as you said so. It is all the contrary. I'm not attracted by easy things.
Working on consciousness is not an easy thing. If you think so, well, let it be !

The topic of the thread is: does your environment controls/affects you ?
And I claim that everybody is controled to some degree by their environment because we live in heavily interconnected world. Since technology, infastructure, law, money and geopolitics effect EVERYONE on the planet.

My point was that you can believe what you want but in the terms of facts you are simply wrong. In the case you just lived in the mountain cabin for 10 years there would perhaps be some weight in your words, but this is simply denial. (I don't see how it can be anything else)

 

[Kanra Jest]

Our environment controls us because everything is cause and effect. Everything done creates a ripple. Big or small. Our environment can ripple through us, helping shape us as we grow and learn through our perceptions and observations. This goes both ways however, for just as the environment can influence you, you can influence it. Influence is more accurate term than control.

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

The topic of the thread is: does your environment controls/affects you ?
And I claim that everybody is controled to some degree by their environment because we live in heavily interconnected world. Since technology, infastructure, law, money and geopolitics effect EVERYONE on the planet.

My point was that you can believe what you want but in the terms of facts you are simply wrong. In the case you just lived in the mountain cabin for 10 years there would perhaps be some weight in your words, but this is simply denial. (I don't see how it can be anything else)

I think the 8 is generally speaking more into denial than an open minded and idealistic 7. I feel you very aggressive and just because I don't agree with you, you now try to impress me.
You want to be right at all cost. I don't like the way you communicate, it does not make me want to share more.
Bye bye master right ! May your life be all controlling and straight to the point. This is none of my business.

Accepting others' ideas could be a path for development. But some people here justify themselves (and their huge ego) and have no intention to develop creativity in others.
I find it very boring. That's not my way of being.

"The topic of the thread is: does your environment controls/affects you ?"
Do you think people can't read the topic, or... in your mind is it not allowed that one's freedom expresses itself in another way than yours ?
The way you try to (unconsciously) correct me and try to get me on your "logical way" (which is actually very much close minded to me!) shows how narrow you can be.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I think the 8 is generally speaking more into denial than an open minded and idealistic 7. I feel you very aggressive and just because I don't agree with you, you now try to impress me.
You want to be right at all cost. I don't like the way you communicate, it does not make me want to share more.
Bye bye master right ! May your life be all controlling and straight to the point. this is none of my business !

Ok, because for me this is justa a "logical problem". There is no point to bring values into this.
Also I am not trying to impress you, I am just trying to show you the pretty obvious truth.

But you are right this doesn't lead anywhere so it is best that we stop.