ENTJ vs ESTJ

[Avocado]

Explain.

 

[yeghor]

Explain.

entj = ceo or dictator

estj = commander or drill sergeant

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

In a nutshell, the ESTJ is an extraverted thinker who is more likely to strive to uphold the current order of things (if it ain't broke, don't fix it). This doesn't mean they can't be forward thinking reformers, it just means that they will be most likely to measure all new ideas and experience against a storehouse of sensory info and past experiences to find the best, most logical, most efficient system. The ENTJ is an extraverted thinker who will also seek to implement a streamlined, efficient system, but they will rely on their introverted intuition to see new alternatives and methods which may not yet have been put into practice. Both types are, by nature, primarily schemers, planners, and administrators.

 

[Evo]

In a nutshell, the ESTJ is an extraverted thinker who is more likely to strive to uphold the current order of things (if it ain't broke, don't fix it). This doesn't mean they can't be forward thinking reformers, it just means that they will be most likely to measure all new ideas and experience against a storehouse of sensory info and past experiences to find the best, most logical, most efficient system. The ENTJ is an extraverted thinker who will also seek to implement a streamlined, efficient system, but they will rely on their introverted intuition to see new alternatives and methods which may not yet have been put into practice. Both types are, by nature, primarily schemers, planners, and administrators.

This.

 

[Avocado]

In a nutshell, the ESTJ is an extraverted thinker who is more likely to strive to uphold the current order of things (if it ain't broke, don't fix it). This doesn't mean they can't be forward thinking reformers, it just means that they will be most likely to measure all new ideas and experience against a storehouse of sensory info and past experiences to find the best, most logical, most efficient system. The ENTJ is an extraverted thinker who will also seek to implement a streamlined, efficient system, but they will rely on their introverted intuition to see new alternatives and methods which may not yet have been put into practice. Both types are, by nature, primarily schemers, planners, and administrators.

I know an ESTJ and an ENTJ and they hate each other.

 

[HongDou]

I know an ESTJ and an ENTJ and they hate each other.

I'd pay to see that fight go down.

 

[atlascatcher]

I'd pay to see that fight go down.

Vee versus Red on the latest season Orange is the New Black, literally fighting.

 

[Avocado]

Now, I am pretty sure my mother is ESTJ, but my Step-father is ESTx. What is ESTP vs ESTJ?

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Now, I am pretty sure my mother is ESTJ, but my Step-father is ESTx. What is ESTP vs ESTJ?

The difference hinges on the fundamental differences between Introverted Sensing and Extraverted Sensing and between Extraverted Thinking and Introverted Thinking.

Picture two CEOs of a company. The ESTJ CEO is going to be more prone to a by-the-book management style. He or she will prefer not to take risks unless they see it as a sure thing. Second, they will probably have more patience for facts, data, charts, and so on. The ESTP CEO is the troubleshooter called in to make quick decisions on the fly. The ESTJ, on the other hand, would be less comfortable being asked to make decisions without first examining all of the past data. The ESTP will not have much patience for long board meetings filled with charts and a lot of talking, as he or she will begin to see it as a waste of time--they will want action and results NOW, not tomorrow.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Now, I am pretty sure my mother is ESTJ, but my Step-father is ESTx. What is ESTP vs ESTJ?

The difference hinges on the fundamental differences between Introverted Sensing and Extraverted Sensing and between Extraverted Thinking and Introverted Thinking.

Picture two CEOs of a company. The ESTJ CEO is going to be more prone to a by-the-book management style. He or she will prefer not to take risks unless they see it as a sure thing. Second, they will probably have more patience for facts, data, charts, and so on. The ESTP CEO is the troubleshooter called in to make quick decisions on the fly. The ESTJ, on the other hand, would be less comfortable being asked to make decisions without first examining all of the past data. The ESTP will not have much patience for long board meetings filled with charts and a lot of talking, as he or she will begin to see it as a waste of time--they will want action and results NOW, not tomorrow.

The ESTJ will probably be the better manager of personnel and resources. The ESTP, on the other hand, will prefer to leave such (as they perceive it) mundane tasks to some ESTJ assistant so that he/she can go meet potential investors and secure new sources of income.

It really does boil down to the Supervisor vs Promoter stereotypes.

 

[Avocado]

They may be both ESTP. My mother is just really tidy and organized.

 

[yeghor]

ESTJ

 

[meowington]

the company I work for :

ESTJ = CEO
ENTJ = Financial director (nr 3)

The ESTJ is bossy, rigid and moody. Thinks very black-white. Hates practical change, loves it when it makes money.
The ENTJ is the one who drives the company. Comes up with the ideas and strategies. Definitely better with people. Reformer as someone said.

Both have gigantic ego's. I get along with both as long as they show appreciation. They get along with eachother very well, cause they both share lots of business intelligence. Both have a strong need and focus for success and demand admiration/respect. You don't want either to go against you.

 

[Avocado]

the company I work for :

ESTJ = CEO
ENTJ = Financial director (nr 3)

The ESTJ is bossy, rigid and moody. Thinks very black-white. Hates practical change, loves it when it makes money.
The ENTJ is the one who drives the company. Comes up with the ideas and strategies. Definitely better with people. Reformer as someone said.

Both have gigantic ego's. I get along with both as long as they show appreciation. They get along with eachother very well, cause they both share lots of business intelligence. Both have a strong need and focus for success and demand admiration/respect. You don't want either to go against you.

Probably, I live with two super-social-conservative ENYJ's.

 

[LanaBanana]

You guys, I also need help with this, because I'm not sure if I'm ESTJ or ENTJ. I've seen this though, and it might help:

ESTJs are detail-minded, and rely on their own personal experience when making decisions. They have a strong desire to adhere to the moment, to take care of present concerns, and to find unity through harmony with the traditions of the past. Very traditional, very down to earth, able to brainstorm and think of every possibility.

ENTJs are futuristic-minded, big picture people who can foresee things before they happen, who are driven to bring to completion some grand, larger goal for their life (like a career they chose in childhood, and have never wavered from). They tend to obsess on future things, but also are highly observant of the facts of their environment and the potential for immediate action. Very visionary, very goal-oriented, tend to decide on one clear path of action and not deviate from it.

 

[Riva]

Few of the worse descriptios i've ever seen about estjs are in this thread.

the company I work for :

ESTJ = CEO
ENTJ = Financial director (nr 3)

The ESTJ is bossy, rigid and moody. Thinks very black-white. Hates practical change, loves it when it makes money.
The ENTJ is the one who drives the company. Comes up with the ideas and strategies. Definitely better with people. Reformer as someone said.

Both have gigantic ego's. I get along with both as long as they show appreciation. They get along with eachother very well, cause they both share lots of business intelligence. Both have a strong need and focus for success and demand admiration/respect. You don't want either to go against you.

This is probably the worst.

Estjs theoretically have better social skils having Si (immediate here and now handling including people vs Ni of entjs which is lost in head trying to make sense and strugling to deal with the immediate).

And

They also have tert Ne - entjs have Se - which is sillier, sees and also INDUCES more possibilities and way more communicative than Se.

 

[meowington]

^ few of the worse descriptios i've ever seen.
This is probably the worst.

Yeah, at least I hope so

I know other ESTJs, who are far less dominant than my boss.
Or ESTJs who are indeed more social. One is a sales guy, who is so socially cunny, he could trick you into thinking he's an F.
In all honesty I generally do not like ESTJs. I distrust their Te (at first glance, I think they are superficial and/or judgemental), they distrust my Ni (they think I'm schemy/devious or insincere).

PS. What's so bad about the descriptions LanaBanana mentioned ?

 

[EJCC]

In a nutshell, the ESTJ is an extraverted thinker who is more likely to strive to uphold the current order of things (if it ain't broke, don't fix it). This doesn't mean they can't be forward thinking reformers, it just means that they will be most likely to measure all new ideas and experience against a storehouse of sensory info and past experiences to find the best, most logical, most efficient system. The ENTJ is an extraverted thinker who will also seek to implement a streamlined, efficient system, but they will rely on their introverted intuition to see new alternatives and methods which may not yet have been put into practice. Both types are, by nature, primarily schemers, planners, and administrators.

^ This is good. Let's just get rid of the idea that ESTJs can't be reformers, because they can be, and very often are. They just aren't likely to want to overhaul an entire system when it doesn't need to be overhauled (as you said, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"). Too much effort for too little payoff. ESTJs and ENTJs are both all about efficiency, but ESTJs are the ones who are very focused on -- and very good at -- maintaining a balance between efficiency and practicality. The question with ESTJs isn't "How should things be?", but is instead "How should things be, that is actually feasible?"

You guys, I also need help with this, because I'm not sure if I'm ESTJ or ENTJ. I've seen this though, and it might help:

ESTJs are detail-minded, and rely on their own personal experience when making decisions. They have a strong desire to adhere to the moment, to take care of present concerns, and to find unity through harmony with the traditions of the past. Very traditional, very down to earth, able to brainstorm and think of every possibility.

ENTJs are futuristic-minded, big picture people who can foresee things before they happen, who are driven to bring to completion some grand, larger goal for their life (like a career they chose in childhood, and have never wavered from). They tend to obsess on future things, but also are highly observant of the facts of their environment and the potential for immediate action. Very visionary, very goal-oriented, tend to decide on one clear path of action and not deviate from it.

I don't like these descriptions at all, because ESTJs aren't really in the moment. The ones who make decisions primarily in the now -- as in RIGHT NOW -- are ESxPs. ESTJs think more about the immediate future (how things should be feasibly changed), as well as the past (Si, their go-to for how things should be done).

I posted about ESTJ vs ENTJ elsewhere -- let me try to find the post and drop it off here.

 

[EJCC]

Found it:

My theory is that it's because STJs often find themselves more invested in the details of things than NTJs do. I've seen the Ni vs. Si difference with regard to those two sets of types as a matter of strategy vs. tactics. STJs, considering their natural tactical abilities, find themselves much more involved in details, on the ground level. NTJs, on the other hand, handle the general strategy, without needing to get quite so immersed in the entire enterprise. Both STJs and NTJs are frustrated by things being done wrong, and may be offended by things being done wrong, but when STJs are so much more invested in the details, they naturally see a lot more that's wrong with everything on a daily basis, and are required, in a sense, to invest themselves in it -- with that investment being, among other things, an emotional one. Also, if ESTJs have more of a reputation for this sort of hair-trigger offendedness than their introverted cousins, it's because being Te-dominant makes them more likely to barge into things and try to fix them when they're broken -- meaning, even more situations come up on a regular basis that would make them invested in issues, emotionally tied to their inevitable success or failure, etc.

 

[LanaBanana]

Those infos are indeed better than the ones I hace found. Thanks! Definitely gives me some food for thought. I still have no idea which one am I though.