[INFJ] ENFPs or INFPs- Which are Better for INTJs?

[Zarathustra]

INTJs and ENFPs are in Mirage/Illusionary relations, which are psychologically soothing but may get too boring over time: Mirage Relations

INTJs and INFPs are in Benefit/Request relations where INTJ is Benefactor to INFP. These are asymmetric relations where INFP will be prone to putting INTJs on a pedestal: Benefit Relations

(INTJ is INTp/ILI in socionics while INFP is INFj/EII)

Which one is best - you decide

Do you have any more of these articles for the other relations?

A lot of mistyped ExFJs maybe? I really suspect a chunk of female "ENFPs" online are ESFJs (tertiary Ne, same "Get Things Going" interaction style, may think that their adherence to certain trendy ideals makes them the "free spirit & progressive" stereotype of the ENFP).

Totally agree.

In fact, I just wrote about that in this thread as a potential explanation as to why there are so many proclaimed EFP 2s on PersonalityCafe.

I hate to write this but, I think...intj-infp is not an easy relationship.
I think there could be easier ones.

I hate to write this, but I think you just got in a dispute with your boyfriend.

 

[Lady_X]

Whaaaatt?? How could an esfj mistype as an enfp. They're so sj'ish! And fe'ish! And way more e'ish!

I can see their ne tho. I like it.

 

[Zarathustra]

Whaaaatt?? How could an esfj mistype as an enfp.

Because they're Fe users; they don't really know themselves.

 

[uumlau]

Yeah, with INTJs, you usually start with 5w6 and then move out from there.

I've considered the same typing Oro has come up with, but, whenever I do, I think you myself, "But I dunno, uumlau could be something else."

I think the direction my mind has been heading has always been towards 9, but that's a pretty rare type for an INTJ, so I always go back to 5w6.

I recommend you get this book (http://www.amazon.com/Personality-Types-Using-Enneagram-Self-Discovery/dp/0395798671).

It's way more in-depth than anything you find on the internet.

I already have that book (it's Oro's, but same difference). I don't find it enlightening.

FWIW, I took another test at PB's suggestion. Results are here: http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42299&p=1860998&viewfull=1#post1860998

 

[Cimarron]

Wait a minute---This is 245 posts long? What in the world...? I thought there would only be fuel enough for say 15 posts...

 

[uumlau]

Wait a minute---This is 245 posts long? What in the world...? I thought there would only be fuel enough for say 15 posts...

It takes more than three licks to get to the center of an INTJ!

 

[xenaprincess]

I hate to write this, but I think you just got in a dispute with your boyfriend.

no, that's a typical back and forth we have with recipes, where he is so [goddamned, friggin'] literal about a recipe, when in fact they are sometimes written like poems, which have a lot of stuff left out. It is a recipe, not instructions on how to make an atom bomb.

So, typically I do the cooking and he swoopss by and makes the occasional 'correction', adding stuff like garlic powder, when I'm not at the stove. It is a little infuriating, but I let it go.

He is just one intj, and can't be held to represent the whole genome. But I think in general, intjs can be....difficult. I say that with gentle, white gloves. But honestly, you must admit that intjs can be difficult? Of course, any type can be difficult depending on your own personality. I can see how infp's could be difficult if you're the type that wants to get stuff done and decided.

I mean, you have long posts about dominating the world. Cannot be the easiest type to get along with!!! (and I write this, not in the midst of a dispute with my SO)

 

[uumlau]

no, that's a typical back and forth we have with recipes, where he is so [goddamned, friggin'] literal about a recipe, when in fact they are sometimes written like poems, which have a lot of stuff left out. It is a recipe, not instructions on how to make an atom bomb.

So, typically I do the cooking and he swoopss by and makes the occasional 'correction', adding stuff like garlic powder, when I'm not at the stove. It is a little infuriating, but I let it go.

He is just one intj, and can't be held to represent the whole genome. But I think in general, intjs can be....difficult. I say that with gentle, white gloves. But honestly, you must admit that intjs can be difficult? Of course, any type can be difficult depending on your own personality. I can see how infp's could be difficult if you're the type that wants to get stuff done and decided.

I mean, you have long posts about dominating the world. Cannot be the easiest type to get along with!!! (and I write this, not in the midst of a dispute with my SO)

I find that lots of INTJs take up cooking as a hobby, and they aren't ones to follow a recipe. Their fascination instead seems to be finding new ways of mixing things together, or experimenting to find the perfect way to prepare a favorite dish.

Try this book out on your INTJ: http://www.amazon.com/dp/0316118400/?tag=googhydr-20&hvadid=2573424581&ref=pd_sl_634yt5ohhx_b I'm not so interested in cooking, myself, but when I do, this is how I think of it. It would explain his penchant for swooping by and adding garlic, for example.

One other thing to note about INTJs: when INTJs become very literal, it means we're still too ignorant of a topic to properly intuit anything about it. That's why we can be utterly intuitive about a math problem, but extremely literal when dealing with human relationships. This doesn't mean we're entirely ignorant, of course: in software development, I have to treat any new technology or language very literally for a while - to the point where I'm impatient for the intuition to kick in and show me how to fill in all the blanks.

 

[lost]

25 pages? I'll say neither but if you must, ENFP with a weak F.

 

[Esoteric Wench]

I hate to write this but, I think...intj-infp is not an easy relationship. I think there could be easier ones.

...I think in general, intjs can be....difficult. I say that with gentle, white gloves. But honestly, you must admit that intjs can be difficult? Of course, any type can be difficult depending on your own personality. I can see how infp's could be difficult if you're the type that wants to get stuff done and decided.

I mean, you have long posts about dominating the world. Cannot be the easiest type to get along with!!! (and I write this, not in the midst of a dispute with my SO)

See here it is. I don't think that it's that INTJs are difficult to get along with per se. I think that it's that it's more difficult for INFPs and INTJs to get along than for ENFPs and INTJs to get along.

I've come to believe that one can predict with relative certainty the positive feelings and the obstacles that any two types will encounter when interrelating. Obviously, many factors other than type are involved when two types interact, however type always plays a role.

If the aforementioned theory is correct, then is it not reasonable to say that one type pairing faces more or less obstacles than another type pairing? Thus, I've come to conclude that an INTJ-INFP pairing will face Dom Fi (INFP) and Aux Te (INTJ) clashes that will make such relations more conflict-proned than an ENFP-INTJ pairing.

ENFP and INTJs both have their Fi and Te in the auxilliary and tertiary positions (thought they are reversed). Imagine a mature INTJ or ENFP who has good control of their tertiary function and can use both their auxiliary and tertiary functions with relative ease.

INTJ = Ni > Te > Fi > Se
ENFP = Ne > Fi > Te > Si

This means you have two people with dominant intuition who both use Te and Fi well. Such a match might be said to have been made in heaven. Whereas take a look at the INFP / INTJ pairing:

INTJ = Ni > Te > Fi > Se
INFP = Fi > Ne > Si > Te

An INFP's dominant Fi feels very different than tertiary Fi. What's more, I've heard more than one INFP say on this forum and IRL that Te (that likes to "get stuff done and decided" as xenaprincess said) feels very "destabilizing" to them. Well look how prominent an INTJ's Te is. Thus, we can say that in the above scenario, there is an inherent Te aux/Fi dom obstacle to overcome between INFPs and INTJs.

Does this make sense?

 

[PeaceBaby]

I am tired of everyone arm-wrestling over the INTJ's ...

I say the INTJ's need to arm-wrestle for ALL of the NFP's!

'cause we're awesome ...

 

[PeaceBaby]

Does this make sense?

I you, but no. It didn't explain a why for me.

(And, I am not in this to say which is better. I have a ... history shall we say ... of pointing out what I think are the potential pitfalls of INTJ - NFP pairing, from the NFP POV.)

 

[Turtledove]

25 pages? I'll say neither but if you must, ENFP with a weak F.

Thankyou! I wouldn't touch an INTJ with a stick. They're good at giving advice on things and ideas, but not well developed in the relationship department (particularly guys or at least my idea of what a relationship is.)

 

[uumlau]

I you, but no. It didn't explain a why for me.

(And, I am not in this to say which is better. I have a ... history shall we say ... of pointing out what I think are the potential pitfalls of INTJ - NFP pairing, from the NFP POV.)

Personally, I think it has more to do with both ENFP and INTJ being N-doms. I generally get along with ENTPs and INFJs as well. INFPs, as Fi doms, vibe more like INTPs than ENFPs, to me, with a prickly, judgey core that often gets in the way of their efforts to be nice and accommodating. The ENFP approach to accommodation is to generally assume the best about others, which is kinda how you need to deal with most INTJs, cuz otherwise you're going to assume that INTJs are too cold or arrogant or whatever. The INFP approach to accommodation is as [MENTION=14594]xenaprincess[/MENTION] put it, "It is a little infuriating, but I let it go." INFPs are tolerant, but appear to keep close track of all the negatives and positives. ENFPs gloss over the negatives until a particular individual essentially "proves" to be irredeemably evil.

Both INFP and ENFP have advantages and disadvantages w/r to INTJs: ENFPs can be too easy to get along with, and real conflict points end up being avoided until they're impossible to avoid, at which point it all blows up. INFPs' prickliness can be an advantage, because it forces the discussion of the more unpleasant matters.

Of course, in the end, it comes down to having a real relationship with a real human being. Typology helps mostly with respect to figuring out where the other person is coming from: what you do with that information determines whether the relationship has a chance.

 

[Salomé]

You can have the ENFPs. Leave the INFPs alone.

In theory, the INFP is ideal for no one. We are the antithesis of the social ideal (which one? most any one), and therefore not what people imagine when they dream of their hypothetical, perfect match.

I think you guys are pretty much perfect.

Cue a song from The Smiths now please. Anyone will do.

Apart from your tendency to do that...

 

[Zarathustra]

He is just one intj, and can't be held to represent the whole genome. But I think in general, intjs can be....difficult. I say that with gentle, white gloves. But honestly, you must admit that intjs can be difficult? Of course, any type can be difficult depending on your own personality.

I said as much at the beginning of the thread.

I can see how infp's could be difficult if you're the type that wants to get stuff done and decided.

To me, this is best explained by the NiSe/NeSi divide.

And, interestingly, it's what the Socionics page said about INTJ-ENFP relationships.

*considers the SFP question again*

Does this make sense?

I just think it's very simplistic.

It's the model we all start with.

I think there's some truth to it.

But it's not the holy grail.

(And, I am not in this to say which is better. I have a ... history shall we say ... of pointing out what I think are the potential pitfalls of INTJ - NFP pairing, from the NFP POV.)

It's called being a hater.

See: [MENTION=14453]Turtledove[/MENTION]

 

[Esoteric Wench]

I am tired of everyone arm-wrestling over the INTJ's ...

I say the INTJ's need to arm-wrestle for ALL of the NFP's!

'cause we're awesome ...

+1

 

[Zarathustra]

I am tired of everyone arm-wrestling over the INTJ's ...

I say the INTJ's need to arm-wrestle for ALL of the NFP's!

'cause we're awesome ...

*repeats same joke*

 

[Zarathustra]

I am tired of everyone arm-wrestling over the INTJ's ...

I say the INTJ's need to arm-wrestle for ALL of the NFP's!

'cause we're awesome ...

*repeats same joke*

 

[Starry]

Just posting to see if my post will also dupilcate itself.

edit: nope