ENFP with high Ti?

[anNE_cognito]

I know it's possible for an ENFP to have high Ti because [almost] anything is possible, but how probable is it? I'm really starting to question my ENFP self-typing because I feel like my Ti might be too high for an ENFP. I've considered the possibility that I might be ENTP, or even INTP, but I feel like my Fi is too high to be either of those types. ENFP has Ti in the trickster position (or the vulnerable position according to socionics), but I feel like I value Ti too highly and use it too often for it to be that low in my function stack. I wonder if maybe I'm an enneagram 5 (a whole other post entirely), and that could be making it appear that I have high Ti when actually I don't? I think I definitely value/prefer using Te over Ti, but is it possible that I've somehow developed my Ti more than the average ENFP? I was raised in an academic environment where learning was highly valued (and also required).


At this point, I'm fairly certain that my preferred functions are Ne, Fi, Te, Si (probably in that order, although not necessarily) but I feel like my Ni, Fe, and Ti are fairly well developed as well (my Se is definitely not very well developed at all). The more I read about/study Jung's functions and mbti, the more confused I get.

 

[miss deceit]

I know it's possible for an ENFP to have high Ti because [almost] anything is possible, but how probable is it? I'm really starting to question my ENFP self-typing because I feel like my Ti might be too high for an ENFP. I've considered the possibility that I might be ENTP, or even INTP, but I feel like my Fi is too high to be either of those types. ENFP has Ti in the trickster position (or the vulnerable position according to socionics), but I feel like I value Ti too highly and use it too often for it to be that low in my function stack. I wonder if maybe I'm an enneagram 5 (a whole other post entirely), and that could be making it appear that I have high Ti when actually I don't? I think I definitely value/prefer using Te over Ti, but is it possible that I've somehow developed my Ti more than the average ENFP? I was raised in an academic environment where learning was highly valued (and also required).


At this point, I'm fairly certain that my preferred functions are Ne, Fi, Te, Si (probably in that order, although not necessarily) but I feel like my Ni, Fe, and Ti are fairly well developed as well (my Se is definitely not very well developed at all). The more I read about/study Jung's functions and mbti, the more confused I get.

Unfortunately going by the parameters of this typology system, an ENFP cannot have strong Ti. One can work on developing it, but for an ENFP Ti will never be something they have a natural ability at.
Also if you don't mind me saying, judging by this post I wouldn't say you have strong Ti. Ti as a function understands the logical "rules" of systems (in Socionics moreso, but even in MBTI this is still applicable) and then will create their own logically consistent framework. From this post, it looks as if you're trying to claim to be good at 7 out of 8 functions and also disregarding the logical framework of the typology system you are working within and judging by the last sentence it seems said logical framework confuses you. For what it's worth, I'm not saying this is a bad thing, I'm pointing out that you may be overestimating the strength of your Ti and that your natural abilities likely would be found in other functions. Typology by it's very nature categorizes people into "boxes" and shows what you're strong and weak at, you cannot be strong at everything.

 

[Majesty]

"I know it's possible for an ENFP to have high Ti because [almost] anything is possible, but how probable is it?"

You can try developing a function, but this won't change the fact that this will still be painful for you to try using, you won't naturally have an understanding of it, and this won't magically make you be as proficient in this area as someone who has it in a higher dimensionality than you do. Also, if you think that anything is possible, then why do you feel the need to ask about it's probability? This is a contradiction within your reasoning that you've failed to recognize.

"I've considered the possibility that I might be ENTP, or even INTP."

"I think I definitely value/prefer using Te over Ti, but is it possible that I've somehow developed my Ti more than the average ENFP?"

If you're certain that you value Te over Ti, you're not an Alpha xNTx. Also, if you're this inconsistent in your arguments on a daily basis, then no.

"At this point, I'm fairly certain that my preferred functions are Ne, Fi, Te, Si (probably in that order, although not necessarily) but I feel like my Ni, Fe, and Ti are fairly well developed as well (my Se is definitely not very well developed at all)."

With Ni and Fe, those will be more well developed because of it's dimensionality for an ENFP, but throughout your post, you're not really explaining how you grasp Ti aside from saying that you're an academic (which isn't exclusive to Ti valuers/is irrelevant information to take into account while trying to decide the strength of it) and/or you think it's high or low (you're not explaining the, "why," behind your conclusions).

"The more I read about/study Jung's functions and mbti, the more confused I get."

If you're going to try typing yourself in Socionics, then treat it as a separate system from MBTI and this will cause less confusion.

 

[anNE_cognito]

Yeah, I keep forgetting socionics is an entirely different system from mbti and I should treat them as such. Why do I think I have high Ti? Because I value logic and consistency, and am bothered by people who are illogical and inconsistent (and yes it bothers me when I myself am illogical and inconsistent). I'm very interested in the "why's" of things, and will sometimes pursue answers and explanations relentlessly until I get them. I want to understand, and I want the truth. I feel compelled to figure stuff out until it makes sense to me, which isn't always an easy task. I do a lot of thinking, and a lot of analyzing--I can't let things go until I understand them (or understand them pretty well, at least). I don't know, maybe I just have Ti confused with Fi?

 

[Dreamer]

Yeah, I keep forgetting socionics is an entirely different system from mbti and I should treat them as such. Why do I think I have high Ti? Because I value logic and consistency, and am bothered by people who are illogical and inconsistent (and yes it bothers me when I myself am illogical and inconsistent). I'm very interested in the "why's" of things, and will sometimes pursue answers and explanations relentlessly until I get them. I want to understand, and I want the truth. I feel compelled to figure stuff out until it makes sense to me, which isn't always an easy task. I do a lot of thinking, and a lot of analyzing--I can't let things go until I understand them (or understand them pretty well, at least). I don't know, maybe I just have Ti confused with Fi?

The bold above registers to me as your Fi being triggered, not an underlying Ti (Presuming the accuracy of your typing). Ask yourself in these scenarios, why these inconsistencies in others bother you, as well as when present within yourself.

Fi seeks a personal truth, an internal value system, which ultimately, projects onto those around you in how you make sense of the world. Any external inconsistencies can rattle your internal understanding if you haven’t yet developed a stable foundation from which to operate. Maintain a solid core, and any external inconsistencies can register merely as those outside of yourself.

Hope this helps.

 

[Vendrah]

I know it's possible for an ENFP to have high Ti because [almost] anything is possible, but how probable is it? I'm really starting to question my ENFP self-typing because I feel like my Ti might be too high for an ENFP. I've considered the possibility that I might be ENTP, or even INTP, but I feel like my Fi is too high to be either of those types. ENFP has Ti in the trickster position (or the vulnerable position according to socionics), but I feel like I value Ti too highly and use it too often for it to be that low in my function stack. I wonder if maybe I'm an enneagram 5 (a whole other post entirely), and that could be making it appear that I have high Ti when actually I don't? I think I definitely value/prefer using Te over Ti, but is it possible that I've somehow developed my Ti more than the average ENFP? I was raised in an academic environment where learning was highly valued (and also required).


At this point, I'm fairly certain that my preferred functions are Ne, Fi, Te, Si (probably in that order, although not necessarily) but I feel like my Ni, Fe, and Ti are fairly well developed as well (my Se is definitely not very well developed at all). The more I read about/study Jung's functions and mbti, the more confused I get.

You might consider that you are just a Ne-dom, without any feeling or thinking preference.
ENFPs 5 actually exist, yet they are actually more close to a pure Ne-dom (actually, N-dom) rather than ENFPs, even though there are many kinds of pure Ne-doms, like ENTP 4 and ENFP 5 are sort of different.
ENFP 3 is also a type that has a expected T/F borderline.

 

[Majesty]

You might consider that you are just a Ne-dom, without any feeling or thinking preference. ENFPs 5 actually exist, yet they are actually more close to a pure Ne-dom (actually, N-dom) rather than ENFPs, even though there are many kinds of pure Ne-doms, like ENTP 4 and ENFP 5 are sort of different. ENFP 3 is also a type that has a expected T/F borderline.

"You might consider that you are just a Ne-dom, without any feeling or thinking preference," explain how this is possible.

Then, the ENTP 4 and ENFP 5 combinations aren't very probable due to these numbers as a core typing for them contradicting that they'd have their PoLR as their weakest function.

With being borderline in these dichotomies, its about the functions and you can't value both of those axis's simultaneously.

 

[Abcdenfp]

The bold above registers to me as your Fi being triggered, not an underlying Ti (Presuming the accuracy of your typing). Ask yourself in these scenarios, why these inconsistencies in others bother you, as well as when present within yourself.

Fi seeks a personal truth, an internal value system, which ultimately, projects onto those around you in how you make sense of the world. Any external inconsistencies can rattle your internal understanding if you haven’t yet developed a stable foundation from which to operate. Maintain a solid core, and any external inconsistencies can register merely as those outside of yourself.

Hope this helps.

i agree with the bolded that this may be the case, and as a ENFP I also like things to make "logical" sense but my systems are definitely my own and even if they look illogical outside they are complex and actually come from a great deal of investigation/ research until they match a pattern that i believe to be true or "right" i am a 7 though so … But i also agree the two systems should be separated to avoid confusion though they both serve a purpose in self-actualization

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Make sure you're not confusing Te or even Si for Ti.

Or, ENFP might be inaccurate

 

[Vendrah]

"You might consider that you are just a Ne-dom, without any feeling or thinking preference," explain how this is possible.

Then, the ENTP 4 and ENFP 5 combinations aren't very probable due to these numbers as a core typing for them contradicting that they'd have their PoLR as their weakest function.

With being borderline in these dichotomies, its about the functions and you can't value both of those axis's simultaneously.

Both MBTI and Jungian typology does allow you to have the borderlines, even though both recommends you to not have any. It is not my fault that the internet sources with their stack does not.
Jung has a whole big description about the pure Ne-dom type, "Extraverted Intuitive type", which is a type that has no preference for thinking or feeling - even though he mentions that it is common for people to have an auxiliary function, that does not mean everybody has one, otherwise he would not be able to write a pure Ne-dom description. How common are these borderlines is something that was never truly ever studied, but they are quite likely to be reasonably common. There is nothing wrong into not having a clear secondary function, and nobody is really forced to choose.

 

[Majesty]

Both MBTI and Jungian typology does allow you to have the borderlines, even though both recommends you to not have any. It is not my fault that the internet sources with their stack does not.
Jung has a whole big description about the pure Ne-dom type, "Extraverted Intuitive type", which is a type that has no preference for thinking or feeling - even though he mentions that it is common for people to have an auxiliary function, that does not mean everybody has one, otherwise he would not be able to write a pure Ne-dom description. How common are these borderlines is something that was never truly ever studied, but they are quite likely to be reasonably common. There is nothing wrong into not having a clear secondary function, and nobody is really forced to choose.

"Both MBTI and Jungian typology does allow you to have the borderlines, even though both recommends you to not have any," so, if they recommend for you not to have any, then what's the point in suggesting it?

"It is not my fault that the internet sources with their stack does not," you're making the assumption that all I've done is read online sources.

"Jung has a whole big description about the pure Ne-dom type, "Extraverted Intuitive type", which is a type that has no preference for thinking or feeling - even though he mentions that it is common for people to have an auxiliary function, that does not mean everybody has one, otherwise he would not be able to write a pure Ne-dom description," I believe that the point of the individual descriptions are to showcase how it manifests as a dominant function as opposed to him advocating in favor of this idea.

That aside, I've noticed that you never addressed my two other previous points in your response and I'd be very interested in seeing you do so.

 

[Vendrah]

"Both MBTI and Jungian typology does allow you to have the borderlines, even though both recommends you to not have any," so, if they recommend for you not to have any, then what's the point in suggesting it?

"It is not my fault that the internet sources with their stack does not," you're making the assumption that all I've done is read online sources.

"Jung has a whole big description about the pure Ne-dom type, "Extraverted Intuitive type", which is a type that has no preference for thinking or feeling - even though he mentions that it is common for people to have an auxiliary function, that does not mean everybody has one, otherwise he would not be able to write a pure Ne-dom description," I believe that the point of the individual descriptions are to showcase how it manifests as a dominant function as opposed to him advocating in favor of this idea.

That aside, I've noticed that you never addressed my two other previous points in your response and I'd be very interested in seeing you do so.

Two previous points? WTF?
I just said that the OP does not need to have a preference for thinking or feeling and that could be just a Ne type, it is this simple, look at the size of drama you are doing over that simple statement. I assume you had only ever read internet sources exactly because for you not choosing for thinking or feeling seems impossible because I know it is impossible for the internet sources, yet it is there and even described in Jung.
There is no further need for any "clarification" because I am being very clear. OP doesn't need to bother so much picking between Feeling or Thinking if OP doesn't want or need to.

 

[Majesty]

Two previous points? WTF?
I just said that the OP does not need to have a preference for thinking or feeling and that could be just a Ne type, it is this simple, look at the size of drama you are doing over that simple statement. I assume you had only ever read internet sources exactly because for you not choosing for thinking or feeling seems impossible because I know it is impossible for the internet sources, yet it is there and even described in Jung.
There is no further need for any "clarification" because I am being very clear. OP doesn't need to bother so much picking between Feeling or Thinking if OP doesn't want or need to.

Yes, these:

"Then, the ENTP 4 and ENFP 5 combinations aren't very probable due to these numbers as a core typing for them contradicting that they'd have their PoLR as their weakest function."

and

"With being borderline in these dichotomies, its about the functions and you can't value both of those axis's simultaneously."

Also, it's funny that you're claiming that I'm the one causing drama over one statement when you only addressed one out of three of the counterpoints I gave.

By the way, whether they want to or not isn't relevant to the point of the discussion (in determining the validity and/or consistency of your claims).

 

[Vendrah]

Yes, these:

"Then, the ENTP 4 and ENFP 5 combinations aren't very probable due to these numbers as a core typing for them contradicting that they'd have their PoLR as their weakest function."

and

"With being borderline in these dichotomies, its about the functions and you can't value both of those axis's simultaneously."

Also, it's funny that you're claiming that I'm the one causing drama over one statement when you only addressed one out of three of the counterpoints I gave.

By the way, whether they want to or not isn't relevant to the point of the discussion (in determining the validity and/or consistency of your claims).

Validity and consistency of my claims?
Really, what about the consistency and validity of your "claims" on the other post? And every other post in this thread? Well, for these there are nothing.
Stop with the overcompensated doubt over me where you pretend to have a critical attitude over me only while blindly accepting things from the other sources ("its about the functions and you can't value both of those axis's simultaneously" already tells).

 

[Majesty]

Validity and consistency of my claims?
Really, what about the consistency and validity of your "claims" on the other post? And every other post in this thread? Well, for these there are nothing.
Stop with the overcompensated doubt over me where you pretend to have a critical attitude over me only while blindly accepting things from the other sources ("its about the functions and you can't value both of those axis's simultaneously" already tells).

Since you've failed to address any of my previous two points and keep deflecting by making assumptions about my motives, I believe there's no point in furthering this discussion.

 

[miss deceit]

Validity and consistency of my claims?
Really, what about the consistency and validity of your "claims" on the other post? And every other post in this thread? Well, for these there are nothing.
Stop with the overcompensated doubt over me where you pretend to have a critical attitude over me only while blindly accepting things from the other sources ("its about the functions and you can't value both of those axis's simultaneously" already tells).

Majesty asked you two very fair questions, you proceeded to then accuse her of causing drama and make assumptions regarding her intelligence and what she has and hasn't read. In your posts, you consistently throw accusations their way in order to avoid answering criticism. Every single one of your responses is so laced with ad homs it is beyond belief.

 

[Vendrah]

Since you've failed to address any of my previous two points and keep deflecting by making assumptions about my motives, I believe there's no point in furthering this discussion.

I had "failed"?
Whatever, there is no point, really.

Majesty asked you two very fair questions, you proceeded to then accuse her of causing drama and make assumptions regarding her intelligence and what she has and hasn't read. In your posts, you consistently throw accusations their way in order to avoid answering criticism. Every single one of your responses is so laced with ad homs it is beyond belief.

I just made one point: The OP does not need to have a preference for thinking and feeling. That is my point, it is simple.

Your narration of the events isn't fair at all, because I am clearly being pursued here.
I can't make any claims freely as others, so I am leaving the thread. Bye bye.

 

[miss deceit]

I had "failed"?
Whatever, there is no point, really.



I just made one point: The OP does not need to have a preference for thinking and feeling. That is my point, it is simple.

Your narration of the events isn't fair at all, because I am clearly being pursued here.
I can't make any claims freely as others, so I am leaving the thread. Bye bye.

Ok play the victim if you want, but it's obviously BS. Bye

 

[Vendrah]

Ok play the victim if you want, but it's obviously BS. Bye

Ok, since you wanted so much to say "ooohhh, Vendrah is blah blah with [MENTION=41240]Majesty[/MENTION] and pretending being the victim", lets end this, shall we?

I make a "official" no-contact request (my first one ever, I am new at this) with both [MENTION=41240]Majesty[/MENTION] and [MENTION=34990]miss deceit[/MENTION], so no longer anyone will be any victim of anything at all.
I mark all the MODs, specially for informing me if there is a need for further action beyond this post to make the no-contact request official: [MENTION=8936]highlander[/MENTION], [MENTION=9811]Coriolis[/MENTION], [MENTION=7111]Fidelia[/MENTION], [MENTION=33717]Hermit of the Forest[/MENTION], [MENTION=5159]Lexicon[/MENTION], [MENTION=13112]Stigmata[/MENTION], [MENTION=30038]The Cat[/MENTION], [MENTION=29849]Yuurei[/MENTION].

I am adding you both Majesty and Miss Deceit to my ignore list, recommend you to add me to your ignore list as well, and we shall have our problem solved.

 

[The Cat]

No contact request has been noted.