Note: this post is written on the go, and could sound a bit arrogant and crude. It's not meant that way, I'm just amused by this topic, I swear
If any of it does not ring true to you, feel free to comment and add to it. This was just how I perceived things.
Satine, thank you for your long post. It was really informative and showed me how it an ENFP would "feel" in this situation. It honestly sounds just like how she would feel. I obviously did not have this deep knowledge of ENFP emotion, even though she says I understand her the most out of anyone, I guess that the understanding wasn't this deep. I can't say that I agree that this type of analysis is accurate or the best way to do it, but I respect the fact that everyone is different and can feel however they want. I don't think my way of doing things is always the best way either, but I still feel that the emotion in your post is an overreaction, given what I know about my intentions and level of care, but I guess the whole point is that she has to be able to dwell in those emotions a bit, and slowly reintroduce logic and facts into the situation and hopefully be able to override the emotional scarring. I mean if we had dated for a couple of months instead of 3 years or didn't have such a deep connection, I would totally see where you are coming from. I guess this really is not as bad as a situation as I thought at first. It is a test for both of us. Besides the obvious for me, if she doesn't trust that I still love her the same, then despite my level of pain at first, I will know that we were never really meant to me. Her bond to me was not strong enough (doesn't matter whose fault it is) to overcome a situation like this, and it would save us a future heartache.
Oh hon...there's so much you still have to learn about your wonderful little ENFP
I agree that your past should count for something. And it does, otherwise she'dve been gone out of your life by now. Trust me. She wants that man back that she dated for 3 years and felt safe and loved by. Her bond to you is more close than you could think. But she lives by her feelings. And the kind you stirred up are very powerful and very present atm. I dunno how far along she is in controlling what I like to call 'the wild horse that is Fi'. You clearly have no idea how deep that runs. That's alright, if you can put your pride and condescending ways aside, you'll find it quite a discovery and relish it in the end, seeing the value.
Let me be clear. I understand where you're coming from. But you have yet to learn to see where she's coming from, as much as she does vice versa.
Let me clarify a bit more. Since I am known to be concise, I will just babble ENFP style and see how that goes for once haha. It wasn't as if I pulled this out of thin air because I knew it would hurt her. That's just mean. A big trigger was needed. It all grew from an incident that at the time I blew out of proportion (I regained composure over a day and told myself that her intentions were not to hurt me, no matter how stupid her actions were). I don't mean for these to be perceived as excuses or anything, just walking you through my head to allow you to walk in my shoes. Here is what happened. I was experiencing a ridiculous level of anxiety that day (for the record the level would have to be ridiculously high for me to complain or even want to admit/talk to someone about it; I usually just deal with shit in solitude and try not to affect anyone's life). The stresses of life leading up to that point plus the fact that I was in the process of switching anti-depressants (which I started taking a few months ago), only compounded everything. My neurotransmitter levels and ratios were readjusting (the two drugs target different reuptake pumps in the brain). A few days before I had inflammation of my deepest back muscles (there are three layers, so we're talking deep), and by this point I hadn't started corticosteroid treatment and the inflammation had peaked. I was in a SHIT ton of pain, unable to even rotate in my bed and barely able to breathe. And that was with painkillers. Aside from the pain and me being high (which by the way is a great recipe for almost completely inhibition of rash and emotional decision making by the prefrontal cortex aka the executive center of the brain, ever heard of Phineas Cage? That dude turned into an ass lol), the addition of very shallow breathing caused in increase in blood CO2 levels, which has been shown to trigger anxiety and panic, so add that to my previous level of anxiety and pain. So I text my girlfriend who is out with her friends and having fun, I did not want to disturb her by calling, and tell her I'm having a lot of anxiety and feel like shit bla bla and she says she will call me later but never did. That really hurt. I have never shown any sign of needing emotional support ever before from her, have always dealt with things on the inside, trying not to affect her (other than maybe being a bit more antisocial lately, but as an INTJ under a lot of stress I should be allowed that, but that's neither here or there). Anyways, exposing my vulnerability at that point and being blown off by the one I cared about most tore me apart, much like what my ENFP is going through right now. So then I overreacted, and extrapolated her behavior on that one night and basically conveyed that she has always treated me like that, which OBVIOUSLY is not true. I just wanted to hurt her. Yes I was an asshole, but at the moment she was a bitch so it felt justified. I was more upset than you can imagine (INTJs have feelings that logic can't control as well). The next thing I knew I said I wanted to break up and never see her again bla bla bla. So that's how it all happened, and I really feel like I was a passenger in the car with my emotions driving. The next day, I was over it. I didn't think she didn't care about me, didn't reevaluate our whole relationship based on one night, etc etc
Sweety, there's no shame in needing emotional support. You should've asked a long time ago. That's the thing with INTJs. That's something I learned in the
9th year, read it, 9th year of my relationship. I was so used to him tending to himself. I knew he loved me. I had no clue why,coz he never needed me for anything. I felt like a luxury item, there to pretty up his life. So, I got engrossed in other projects. I started staying up, when he went to bed...alone. He suddenly had trouble sleeping. Found himself incapable of falling asleep without me in the bed. He didn't say anything, didn't wanna be a burden, didn't wanna stop me from doing what I wanted to do. He indicated a couple of times that it wasn't smart of me to stay up that long and that he would like me to join him once a while. I did. I felt something was wrong, but he wasn't telling me, and I couldn't get him to formulate it (I have the habit of pestering him until he blows when I know he's fighting wit somethig), and, I admit, I was distracted by my project. At some point, he formulated that he wanted me to go to sleep with him every night. I did, for a week, then took one night to do a one nighter. He said that that was ok. Two weeks after I started this routine, he blows. Tosses everything at my head, how he doesn't feel supported, loved, and starts punishing me for things I'm no longer doing!
It's a good thing we'd been together as long as we were. I stood there, calmly, seeing that he finally burst. Recognizing that this was actually a build up of months and was no longer relevant to this timephrame. It was aout something we'd already fixed. And he knew that, logically, mentally. But his feelings only just now caught up. Do you have any idea how disorienting that is to someone who doesn't know you that well? Or who doesn't have that amount of experience yet? You guys aren't a picnic emotionally eithe, sweetheart. But that's why we love you...coz you are that complex and that warm, and you do have that gooey core. Just...share it with us. Tell us to push your buttons if you have trouble expressing it. It increases that bond, that you said was lacking. And the equality, the appreciation between the two partners.
She fucked up becoz you never *ever* asked this of her before. Just as you didn't see first what impact you made on your girl when you had 'a bad day', she didn't see the impact it had on you when she didn't instantly pick up on your need. Now that you've been through it..learn. Show her when you need her. She'll love you even more for it, I promise. And, she'll learn to pick up on it when you struggle exprsesing it. It'll intensify your bond and make you grow towards each other.
How should she know which part I mean? Maybe just listen to me when I say which part I meant and which I didn't? Not trying to be an ass, I do understand that her core was disrupted and she is confused. But after a while she should step up and realize that I AM the only person that would know, and for her to try to take responsibility for figuring it out takes away from all of the growth and trust we have built. And given the fact that I have been appreciative, valued her, and always had her back no matter what, the decision should not be too difficult, in my opinion.
From where I'm standing, she's not the only one that still needs to work on her bond with you. For real. You have *no clue* what you got at home there, and what she's like. And that's ok. It takes a life-time to explore the inner pool that makes up a soul of an ENFP. As much as it'll take a life-time to understand the inner workings of an INTJ, and how for instance they do continuity soooo much better than we ever could (that's what causes that decisiveness and that smooth control
). What I mean is, I don't think she realizes yet that INTJs tend to...well, once they set their mind on something, not change their mind unless some life-altering change comes about. And, ime, that includes love. My INTJ pretty much considers Love: mission complete. I admire that..it makes me feel safe and my god, it is something I admire, as I'm always reevaluating my relationships with others, including my SO (this does not mean I do not love him or don't wanna spend my life with him, just that I'm aware that I don't know what will happen in the future).
You do love her. And you have cared for her, and you guys build something magnificient together. But you need to start seeing the value of what she contributes, if you expect her to do the same. And you need to realize that this beautiful creature in your life is still getting to know you, and she is eager to do so..that's why she is taking this time to assess the situation. I know it's emotionally uncomfortable, but it is for the best, I promise. And you, from your part, need to stop thinking you know everything there is to her. Coz I'm sorry..*chuckles*...you clearly don't. And thank god for that, it'll keep you intrigued with her for a loooong ass time to come and vice versa
These things will happen. And they will happen again. I promise. I've had this happen in my relationship every year or every two years. The first time you freak. The second time you're still blindsighted but know how to fix it. The third time you see it coming and get started early on. After a while, it becomes a fun challenge and part of life.
These are the trials you have in a relationship. And these are the things that make you grow stronger or break you apart. INTJ-ENFP relationships can be incredible when they stand together as a team. Always give each other the benefit of the doubt and always be willing to see each others pov, and you'll find those trials to be a piece of cake
Well that is very self-righteous. Especially given what I've read about ENFPs making ridiculously bad judgment calls a lot of times. That sounds like something an INTJ would say (which would even be considered as coming off as cocky by our own standards lol), and I would trust a decision like that more with an INTJ over an ENFP, all else held equal. I just really believe that thinking is more likely to arrive at the correct decision than feeling, so hopefully she will implement her Te function, which I am glad has been developing as we have dated
I mean feeling is great and all, but it just creates disasters that thinking fixes, hehe. She should know that as a her boyfriend, AND as an INTJ, I don't lie. It's just something I don't do. It's something I detest. It's something I don't get over (except I have forgiven my girlfriend before, after my center core was shattered like hers). She knows how I feel about lies. Lying (we're not talking just a white lie here) to me is like telling an ENFP that all they care about is themselves and that everything that they do to make people happy is an attempt to manipulate them and get what they want. She should know how big of a move it was for me to agree to forgive her, even though it has been a relatively slow process. That should be something she uses to help her come around. Of course I won't tell her that, that would be emotional blackmail. And although my forgiving hasn't been an overnight process, I have still maintained love while rebuilding trust separately, and did not do it with her out of my life like she wants to do with me. I don't get why people can't say something they don't mean in a time of weakness. Like I said, I'm leaving it all in her hands now. I've done everything I can to be the best boyfriend I can before the argument, and directly after the argument. If she can't see that, I think I'm better off with a non-ENFP that is not a fair weather fan.
What did I tell you about setting that Pride aside? Do it now. If you were dating me, and you showed me this kind of attitude, I would KICK YOUR ASS. Not dump it yet but reeducate you bigtime. From where I'm standing, you're a student, and beginner at emotions. She's at least taking the time to figure out how to proceed. You seem to be consumed by the feeling that if things don't go as you wish, it must be someone elses fault. Projecting, basically. And I'll be arrogant in my own right now and say, I'd wager it comes from the emotional insecurity she's causing by reevaluating your relationship and you have no way of knowing what will happen next. That's alright, it is a taxing feeling to deal with. But do not sit there and tell me you're superior in the way you make decisions and deal with these things compared to her or other ENFPs. You're not. You're standing there trying to force your way thrugh this rough patch becoz you don't find it comfortable, which btw, would result in a disfunction in the relationsip and a festering wound. She's taking the time to figure out how to clean it out properly and give it time to heal.
Do not sit there and think that you'd be better at making these decisions unless you've got some proof to back it up. You'd better start appreciating the things she's naturally inclined to do better than you, or you start dating yourself, if you like yourself that much better. For that matter, while you're waiting for her to sort stuff out, why don't you self-reflect a bit about what exactly it is about her that makes you wanna hold on to her *that* much, if you're so superior to her. And no, I'm not being pissy or defensive. I'm amused. And I'm giving you a challenge that can help you. Up to you to see if it is worthy of your attention
As for the not lying. You just did. That's another thing she'll have to figure out. It's a paradox. You do not lie, you say, and youve always probably acted as such, but suddenly *something* made you lie to hurt her. She's yet to figure out how and why things make you lie. And decide if she can live with that or change that, if need be. Don't worry, she's also very much probably reevaluating how to *not* trigger this in you by reviewing her own reactions and her own beliefs.
whoa did you really just call him self righteous and then go on to belittle the way an enfp processes information while saying how much better your approach is and laughing about it like it was cute for anyone to assume otherwise???
Oh yes he did
If the NFP posts in this thread are an indication, then NFPs tend to keep themselves secret. All those posts included some kind of rule that NFPs have deep inner stuff that other people can trip over which lets the NFP recoil, blah blah blah. In other words, stuff they don't say until too late. Which sounds like a weird relationship. So either they're talking about what happens at the beginning of relationships, or they're talking about built in fail points for any relationship.
Ergo....
something happened earlier--that eight month ago thing--and the ENFP in question has been waiting, looking for confirmation of some righteous pattern.
This hypothesis brought to you by partial information, shallow analysis, and internet authority syndrome.
Kalach, you're right. However, INTJs have a knack for opening us up. And, if they earn our trust, seeing it all. It just takes...a lot of time to see it all
Not to mention, some stuff we're unaware of and often discover due to you guys. You push buttons and come places where nobody else has ever ventured and stirr stuff up that..we've never even had to deal with before. It's a discovery as much for the INTJ as it is for the ENFP.
Fecaleagle you are making a terrible assumption, one that many intjs make. That other people are below them, in intellect, in the way they make decisions, in the cultural aspect and so on. Plus tends to look down on other types. (as do many INTP, I myself sometimes catch myself doing these things) You clearly need to get off the high horse. Stop using your type as an excuse of what you do. Type is stereotypical, people are particulars. People are types in the context of certain traits, only that. No one can 100% say they fit their type. Atleast I know I dont.
If you want this girl back you need to be able to show humility, give her time and show her how much you want her back. Pride wont get you far in relationships, but you already know that now.
There are certain things that are needed in a relationship. Respect for differences of oppinions, humility to other peoples decisions, commitment to one person, the ability to put the other persons needs above your own, a want to communicate openly and freely and ability to love the person unconditionally. If you cant do those in a relationship it is better to stay single, as it would minimize the hurt on both sides.
Do what you feel is right to deal with the situation but dont rush things. If you really love her you should also be able to let her go.
Ask yourself am I doing this for me, am my own pride in the way for me to say goodbye to her. Look in to the future how are things going to pan out for you? Are you going to end up a emotional wreck from this because of selfish feelings and wants or are you able to let her go and feel you did all you could?
Listen to the man, he knows
My point: she's trying to figure out herself and your relationship. She's not perfect, nor has she ever claimed to be so. You're both still searching and growing together. Don't project blame on her. There's nothing to blame anyone for. These are just growing pains, so go and work with your girl on what can be the most awesome thing in the world
edit: I'll mention this again, the reason I sound emotional in my posts, is *becoz* I'm trying to empathize and undesrtand her side of it and translate it to you (as much as that's possible on the internet). This means that I might not agree with what she's doing, and I would've handled it differently, but I try to understand where she's coming from and am trying to explain to you why she did what she did, so you can work with that. Afterall, you're not dating me, you're dating her. Same thing, my understanding your side of it might feel nice and get you validated, but it won't get you squat with her. As once again, you're dating her, not me. And since she's not here, you'll have to be the one to explain your side to her, so she can understand you as well as you do her and you can look for answers together. I know this can make it feel like I'm saying 'she's right, you're wrong', which can cause some resentment in you, but that's not what I'm trying to do. The point is to make you understand her side as well as you understand your own, so you can relay that to her and togehter figure out what works fo you.
Good luck
) things through. I´m not the only NFP who had the impression that you tend to look down on her though (stupid mistakes she made, poor decision making, inferior processing, etc.) ... this might be something to keep an eye on.
