EJCC's Instinctual Stacking?

[Starry]

Have you considered So/Sx...

^^^yup

 

[EJCC]

So it looks like most people -- myself included -- are settled on so-dom. Which leaves the second one. I'm leaning towards so/sx, but I'm still stuck on the fact that I don't "vibe" right with some sx friends of mine. What are everyone's thoughts/reasoning for and against so/sx, for me? [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION]? [MENTION=7991]chana[/MENTION]? @Anybody? ...@Bueller?

Also [MENTION=5684]Elfboy[/MENTION], what made you say that my vision (or whatever word you used) wasn't wide enough to be so-dom?

I think what I said is that I don’t get the least so variant vibe (?), but sx wouldn’t really surprise me. A ‘least’ variant often shows up as a sort of callousness, because essentially it’s a challenged ability to empathize with a certain need and it shows up as an occasional irritability with that need in others- but not everyone has it. And there are people here who seem to me to have a certain callousness I associate with a certain stacking yet they identify differently, so I’m not 100% about it anyway. I don’t really see *any* of the callousnesses in you, so I don’t especially have an opinion (fid is someone else I don’t see any of the callousness in) except that I’d guess so variant isn’t least for you. You know, according to the very scientific and objective *vibe theory*, so take it ‘fwiw’.

There are things you wrote in the op that indicate (to me, *vibe theory*) you’re not least sx variant either- but I wanted to at least post this much, with the hope that I’ll get back to it.

@ very scientific and objective "vibe theory". I only trust "vibe theory" from those who are skilled at applying it. And you seem like you'd be very skilled at it.

Interesting. Isn't Fidelia also so/sx? I feel like I've been compared to her a couple of other times, on the forum... Probably because we both give a lot of friendly 1w2 advice.

Also, do you think my example of sp excuses to back out of things, would be an example of anti-sp callousness?




Edit: I found an interesting (though kind of over-the-top) description here, and I bolded what I relate to:

- Inherent kind of intensity about others - engaging them, understanding them, seeing them
- Furthest energy from SP (more than sx/so somehow)
- Arguable, but often an inherent sense of sophistication, appreciation of arts and love of the 'cultural conversation'
- Wide, ubiquitous presence, hard to grasp, up-in-the-air, wishy-washy, wide-ranging passion and interest
- Inherently moral, awareness of large social causes taken extremely seriously (sexism, racism, homophobia ...)
- Almost dangerously magnetic charisma, sharp-wit, perfected, elegant social appearance/competence, ability to make everyone relax, often floats from group to group or person to person with grace and ease, feeling close to no-one while others 'feel very close' to them
- Focus on the importance of others in your life: that one friend, your family, that small group of people that experienced such and such with you - rigorous loyalty for such
- Seems to 'relax' among people, not necessarily engaging them just 'being' with them, like being in a hot, calming bath
- Ruthless selectivity within social sphere, inherent kind of social elegance makes for a pickier person
- Love of humanities, law, history, European culture, anything where so/sx can feel a part of the ghostly whispers of thousands of people that have walked the same earth, may have been writing the same poetry...
- Incredibly sharp emotional perception and 'people awareness', can make spell-binding councillors, life-coaches, etc
- I think the genius behind the Pixar movies is absolutely SO/SX understanding, a kind of light genius that wants to get darker but keeps the kids in mind - America has a much bigger so/sx energy to me, than England and Europe
- Seemingly grounded (or 'salt of the earth' because vision is so 'wide' so can cover all bases. Actually not grounded at all.
- When more stressed: love of connection can lead to compulsive, impulsive spending, organising trips away with family (the combination of a loved one and a best friend is like taking crystal meth), the type that will splash out on a yacht to give to close knit community without thinking has to go home and re-mortgage the house ... enforced fun, expensive, personalised events for 'special few'/small community let in by so/sx
- Dependency on small community around, needs the collective voice to steer
- The social world (i.e. culture, history, media) is A-sexual so, when stressed, the SO/SX can inherent this A-sexual world and struggle to build romantic relationships. This can be confusing for other people because the intensity of intellectual and emotional connection i.e. friendship, may lend itself to romance but nothing happens
- Stressed and dark SO/SX form many of these borderline connections
- Dupes others into thinking the so/sx is a wise, cultural kind of Gandalf, is a lie

^ I relate to general gist of that last bullet point, a whole lot. I mean, hell, consider my reputation on the forum!*

*or what I presume to be my reputation on the forum

Edit: Re: the "ruthless selectivity" bullet point, that's just another way of saying what I said earlier in this thread, about having a huge network of friendly acquaintances that I ignore a lot of the time because they aren't high priority. It sounds douchey when I say it that way, but I can't think of a better way to describe it.

 

[Elfboy]

[MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION]
- you seem more self focused than an So dom 1 (ie, "how am I measuring up towards the standards for my life?"). So dom 1, especially So dom 1w2 is more fixated on improve the community in terms of specific standards they hold.
- oddly enough, I can see So/Sx for you and Sp/So for you, but not So/Sp.
- that said, I'm beginning to doubt you are a core 1 at all. I could easily see you as a 7w6 with a strong gut fix. if you are a 1, you are ridiculously integrated

 

[EJCC]

- you seem more self focused than an So dom 1 (ie, "how am I measuring up towards the standards for my life?"). So dom 1, especially So dom 1w2 is more fixated on improve the community in terms of specific standards they hold.

The thing about So 1 descriptions is that they really, really apply to adolescent me. Based on what [MENTION=5871]Southern Kross[/MENTION] and [MENTION=7254]Wind-Up Rex[/MENTION] have said in this thread, I'm guessing it's just a maturity/balance thing -- that I learned not to just follow what my gut wants me to do, all the time, i.e. to go correcting everyone's mistakes whenever I feel like it.

Examples:
- At age 5, I went up to a guy who was holding a cigarette, looked him sternly in the eyes, and said "NO SMOKING."
- At age 11 or 12, I ran up to the blackboard when a teacher's back was turned, corrected her spelling error on the blackboard, and ran back.
- From ages 11 to 13, I openly rebelled against any teacher that I didn't perceive to be as smart as me; I figured that if you weren't smarter than me, then you shouldn't be teaching me. (It was very hierarchical, that thought process.) So I got sent to the principal's office for mouthing off to professors, at least once per semester. And for my entire childhood, until age 15, I was completely unable to suffer fools gladly.

Present-day me knows when it's appropriate to do shit like that, and when it's not. And 99% of the time, it's not. Only if I'm friends with you, or if I get a vibe from you like you are very good at taking criticism, will I go no-holds-barred on you and your incorrect opinion. (I may have actually done that to you in the past, Elfboy. And I'm sorry about that.) And nowadays, I'm more likely to get into an argument with someone if their incorrect/offensive statement really surprises me in a bad way; for example, a few years ago I met a friend of a friend for the first time, and he started talking about "The Muslim Church". I had never heard anyone use that phrase before, but it's completely, ridiculously wrong, so I couldn't stop my gut reaction and I went "Excuse me? There's no such thing!" And then off we went for five minutes or so, until our mutual friend shut us up.

Usually I try to keep control of those urges, though. Which, I suppose, has fooled both myself and the forum.

- oddly enough, I can see So/Sx for you and Sp/So for you, but not So/Sp.

That is odd. What's your motivation, there?

- that said, I'm beginning to doubt you are a core 1 at all. I could easily see you as a 7w6 with a strong gut fix. if you are a 1, you are ridiculously integrated

This will likely convince you that I'm a 1, but I'll take that as a compliment!



Edit: Now that I think about it, I really do relate to parts of sp/so descriptions that emphasize being very hard on yourself. Is that a thing that so/sx can do just as much, given particular circumstances?

 

[Starry]

What are everyone's thoughts/reasoning for and against so/sx, for me? [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION]?

I should probably mention that I'm not just using 'vibe' theory here...oh no. I'm also drawing from 'you remind me of...' and so rest-assured, I have made full-use of the '2 most popular TypoC typing strategies' together!

^^^okay I admit to having used other, more-realiable strategies (as well) in order to arrive at a semi-informed conclusion regarding your stacking but I suck at creating responses that makes this seem like a true statement.

For starters you're not an e1 sp. I've read more than one enneagram author describe the e1 sp as the most anxious of all 27 types...out-worrying and obsessing even the e5 & e6 sp. <---And no, I apologize, I don't have any names or citations handy to attach to this statement but I actually read this again in the link you, yourself, provided in I believe the 'so-last SJs' thread (?) Anyway...here the desire for perfection in all things is at epic proportions. And the anxiety/worry is compulsive. In other words, these are the people that...if there is nothing to worry/obsess about...they will create something to worry/obsess about...and it's my personal theory that they feel secure when worrying because they believe this hyper-vigilance will prevent them from making a mistake. I believe the e1 sp is highly linked with obsessive-compulsive disorder which is very much in line with my ISTJ e1 sp sister that has a somewhat moderate but highly-resistant-to-therapy case of OCD. And it also reflects the experience of a young INTJ e1 sp male from our site. His relatively notorious thread illustrated quite well just how deep this need for perfection and the accompanying anxiety/obsession goes for the e1 sp.

Likewise you're not an e1 sx. Oops, I just noticed the clock and I'm running out of time here...so I'll just say that the e1 sx is more angry and self-righteous. I mean, obviously not all the time. I'm remembering two ISTJ e1 sx's that I used to work with that were so truly warm and charming when they were not pissed off ha...but holy hell piss one of them off? I believe that with e1 sp the anger is turned inward on self subsequently turning into anxiety (not that my sister can't get self-righteous though heh)...and with e1 so...the outward focus turns anger into 'accountability' which is absorbed differently if that makes sense. There's more of an 'we're all in this together' connection to the anger. But with the e1 sx...there is more of an 'entitlement' thing going on which makes them far more likely to direct their anger and frustration at individuals not living up to their standards.

So anyway...I believe you are an so dom. I do not think sp is next in line because you do not present with that 'leashed' quality that I believe Rex & Glycerine mentioned...or that start-stop/push-pull. You are entirely open. I get that it is tempting to put sp somewhere other than last because it seems that you do address sp concerns...but that is the trick to figuring this all out. I believe an ESTJ e1 will naturally feel they have some kind of handle on 'sp' regardless of where it is in the line-up. <--- And I know that explanation leaves a lot to be desired...but like an ESTJ e1 so/sx will look like they've got...what we generally, and somtimes mistakenly, attribute to sp...in order far more than say an ENFP e7 sx/sp (like myself).

You 'vibe' like a healthy so/sx. Healthy so/sx's have the best energy as far as I'm concerned and I'm actually envious of this stacking. They are so open and expansive...curious, gregarious, gracious...sharp, active minds...but sx keeps them grounded & down-to-earth...but still foward-moving (not that painful 'leashed' back-and-forth thing). I totally see you this way.

 

[SilkRoad]

Based on some of the comments/descriptions here, so/sx is starting to make more sense for you. I think I got really stuck on reading something about how so/sx was a very "crazy/manic" type.

And actually, if you're an so/sx ESTJ and Fidelia is an so/sx INFJ, it would make more sense why you guys vibe quite similar in a lot of ways...

 

[EJCC]

Based on some of the comments/descriptions here, so/sx is starting to make more sense for you. I think I got really stuck on reading something about how so/sx was a very "crazy/manic" type.

And actually, if you're an so/sx ESTJ and Fidelia is an so/sx INFJ, it would make more sense why you guys vibe quite similar in a lot of ways...

Not only that, but we're also both 1w2!
[MENTION=7111]fidelia[/MENTION] = Sista from anotha mista.

I'll reply in more detail when I have time, later today, but I'll just say for now that, although I'm still curious about devil's advocate opinions, you guys are extremely convincing about so/sx, and I'm just about ready to make it official.

 

[violet_crown]

Not only that, but we're also both 1w2!
[MENTION=7111]fidelia[/MENTION] = Sista from anotha mista.

[MENTION=9273]Vasilisa[/MENTION] is another one. It's apparently an instinctual stacking that produces some real dames.

 

[SilkRoad]

I know someone who is, I am pretty sure, ESTP type 7 (probably 7w8) and probably sx/so or so/sx - and she is definitely crazy/manic/hyper. Though I always have hilarious times and laugh a lot when I see her.

But I think I'd been thinking more of someone like that (in terms of so/sx) which kind of confused me.

 

[Southern Kross]

I agree that so/sx is looking pretty likely.

 

[EJCC]

I should probably mention that I'm not just using 'vibe' theory here...oh no. I'm also drawing from 'you remind me of...' and so rest-assured, I have made full-use of the '2 most popular TypoC typing strategies' together!

^^^okay I admit to having used other, more-realiable strategies (as well) in order to arrive at a semi-informed conclusion regarding your stacking but I suck at creating responses that makes this seem like a true statement.

For starters you're not an e1 sp. I've read more than one enneagram author describe the e1 sp as the most anxious of all 27 types...out-worrying and obsessing even the e5 & e6 sp. <---And no, I apologize, I don't have any names or citations handy to attach to this statement but I actually read this again in the link you, yourself, provided in I believe the 'so-last SJs' thread (?) Anyway...here the desire for perfection in all things is at epic proportions. And the anxiety/worry is compulsive. In other words, these are the people that...if there is nothing to worry/obsess about...they will create something to worry/obsess about...and it's my personal theory that they feel secure when worrying because they believe this hyper-vigilance will prevent them from making a mistake. I believe the e1 sp is highly linked with obsessive-compulsive disorder which is very much in line with my ISTJ e1 sp sister that has a somewhat moderate but highly-resistant-to-therapy case of OCD. And it also reflects the experience of a young INTJ e1 sp male from our site. His relatively notorious thread illustrated quite well just how deep this need for perfection and the accompanying anxiety/obsession goes for the e1 sp.

Likewise you're not an e1 sx. Oops, I just noticed the clock and I'm running out of time here...so I'll just say that the e1 sx is more angry and self-righteous. I mean, obviously not all the time. I'm remembering two ISTJ e1 sx's that I used to work with that were so truly warm and charming when they were not pissed off ha...but holy hell piss one of them off? I believe that with e1 sp the anger is turned inward on self subsequently turning into anxiety (not that my sister can't get self-righteous though heh)...and with e1 so...the outward focus turns anger into 'accountability' which is absorbed differently if that makes sense. There's more of an 'we're all in this together' connection to the anger. But with the e1 sx...there is more of an 'entitlement' thing going on which makes them far more likely to direct their anger and frustration at individuals not living up to their standards.

So anyway...I believe you are an so dom. I do not think sp is next in line because you do not present with that 'leashed' quality that I believe Rex & Glycerine mentioned...or that start-stop/push-pull. You are entirely open. I get that it is tempting to put sp somewhere other than last because it seems that you do address sp concerns...but that is the trick to figuring this all out. I believe an ESTJ e1 will naturally feel they have some kind of handle on 'sp' regardless of where it is in the line-up. <--- And I know that explanation leaves a lot to be desired...but like an ESTJ e1 so/sx will look like they've got...what we generally, and somtimes mistakenly, attribute to sp...in order far more than say an ENFP e7 sx/sp (like myself).

You 'vibe' like a healthy so/sx. Healthy so/sx's have the best energy as far as I'm concerned and I'm actually envious of this stacking. They are so open and expansive...curious, gregarious, gracious...sharp, active minds...but sx keeps them grounded & down-to-earth...but still foward-moving (not that painful 'leashed' back-and-forth thing). I totally see you this way.

Thank you for the thorough analysis! Like Wind-Up Rex's post, yours is extremely convincing. And I very much appreciate the complimentary final paragraph.

The first bolded, I don't relate to at all, which is a good case against sp. I do tend to worry, but not when there's nothing to worry about. However, the bolded does seem like a pretty good case for my mother being sp/so; I think she uses worry as a control mechanism, in a similar fashion.

The second bolded, I thought was very interesting. I think I relate to it? Definitely food for thought, either way.

And I was tempted to argue with the final bolded, until I realized that I really am very open in a lot of ways. The cards I keep close to my chest are so select, and so unlikely to ever be brought up, that people tend to think that I have nothing to hide. So, yes, I agree that I'm probably just about as open as a type 1 Te-dom can be.

As y'all can se, I have officially changed my stacking to so/sx -- thank you all so much for your help, and if anyone objects, feel free to come forward with your evidence.

 

[Elfboy]

[MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION]

I noticed you typed as Sp/Sx for a short period. do you relate to this post? I feel it describes So last quite nicely

(from Peony of typewatch)

One important aspect of the social instinct is the awareness of how other people relate to each other. This perception can go missing from the perception of many social lasters. Social lasters seem to go with 'How I relate to A, how I relate to B', and so on. They can very well have many friends, but they still don't get how friend A might mean to friend B, and how the the relationship between the said social laster and friend A may depend on friend B as well.
This makes for many social lasters being left out in the cold when their friend's relationship to other friends took a turn, which then affected the friend's relationship with the social laster.
I am certain many social lasters know what I am talking about

 

[EJCC]

EJCC

I noticed you typed as Sp/Sx for a short period. do you relate to this post? I feel it describes So last quite nicely

(from Peony of typewatch)

I actually don't relate to this. Recent personal experience has shown the opposite response, from me. This past August/September, two of my closest friends -- an INFJ and an ENFP, who had been dating each other -- broke up. Since then, our friend group has divided itself a bit, with some friends choosing the INFJ over the ENFP, and vice versa. I, on the other hand, have had it both ways, maintaining my friendships with both friends and the entirety of our friend group. That required a lot of strategizing on my part -- especially since I am so much on the side of the ENFP that I now hold very low esteem for the INFJ -- but through honest (but calculated) interactions with most of my friends (including the ENFP and the INFJ), I have had little trouble adapting to the situation.

The only stress the situation has caused me, has been my frustration with the INFJ, who has taken to constantly contacting all the friends he has left (myself included) as a coping mechanism/attempt to stave off loneliness... which is annoying because of how strongly it reeks of well-meaning self-centeredness. Trying to be a good friend, but not for the sake of his friends.

But I digress. My point is: the way everything played out seems much more So-first, than So-last.

 

[Nicki]

You seem very so/sp from your posts.

 

[EJCC]

Bump!

You seem very so/sp from your posts.

^ I've heard this feedback from a bunch of people since this post, and I'm wondering what y'all's argument for so/sp is?

I mean, I'm still pretty sure of so/sx, but this has happened enough that I've gotten curious. Why do I vibe sx-last?