Effects of INxJ tertiary functions

[Park]

I still get input from Fi. But like I say, I don't particularly trust it.

For me, Fi often works parallel with Ti. I detect a feeling and analyze it with Ti.

 

[Athenian200]

For me, Fi often works parallel with Ti. I detect a feeling and analyze it with Ti.

I know what you mean, sort of. But I believe that's reflected Fe, not Fi. I don't know for certain, but that's what I think. It's like I project emotion outwardly, and then I analyze the instinctive "tint" of the perceived emotion from the environment against my memories I've previously established as reflective of what I normally evaluate things as, and interpret the difference as part of my internal emotional state. The more "mirrors" or people I interact with, the better my understanding of that emotion. I can also pick up on it from reflections on Ni, though ideas, which facilitates things. It's hard to describe.

 

[Park]

I'm pretty sure it's Fi. I do this a lot when I design things. I have a feeling inside my head which I try to visualize. It's a delicate process because Ti can so easily tear the feeling into pieces.

 

[Athenian200]

I'm pretty sure it's Fi. I do this a lot when I design things. I have a feeling inside my head which I try to visualize. It's a delicate process because Ti can so easily tear the feeling into pieces.

How do you know that it's Feeling and not Intuition? Unless the thing you are designing is based on emotion?

 

[Park]

How do you know that it's Feeling and not Intuition? Unless the thing you are designing is based on emotion?

The things I design are based on emotions.
The design process goes like this:
My heads fills up with feeling tones which evolve into complex images/symphonies of feelings - not like lucid dreaming but a similar mode. Often very intense and delightfull. When the feeling image in my head reach perfection I gently apply Ti and try to visualize it. Sometimes I can't visualize the feeling inside my head and have to let it go. I'm very truthfull in this process, if the feeling I have in mind doesn't match what I am able to create physically - I discard it.

 

[Metamorphosis]

As a Tertiary Function, Fi typically leads ITJs to retreat into solitary actions that have no constructive worldly effect but are aimed at providing a justification for calling themselves good people. Another example is obsession with the purity of one's soul. For example, being a vegetarian while working at Taco Bell--not out of any great love for animals (the person might hardly know anything about what cows are like), but to be able to say, "Well, at least I never ate any animals." Or engaging in pointless acts of honor, like maintaining super-self-control or "doing one's duty" or going down with the ship. Nothing is gained by going down with the ship; it's a hyper-introverted act aimed at providing a rationalization for one's goodness without regard to real-world consequences. Nearly all of these tertiary-Fi acts involve refraining from action viewed as unethical rather than taking positive action that would accomplish something. They're a retreat from the world--or rather, a rationalization for disregarding worldly matters.

wow...so true...especially the going down the ship part...

 

[quietgirl]

INFJ here... maybe I can provide some sort of insight on tertiary Ti.

I find my Ti shows up when I am analyzing how I feel. If something happens, I immediately project (and act upon) feeling and then detach and analyze them to bits. Sometimes after analyzation, I end up having a completely different perception of what is going on. However, during the analyzation, I don't actually "feel" the feelings. I'm not comparing them to any sort of moral values - I'm more picking them apart. It's like I'm using my Fe immediately in the situation and then switch into the Ti to analyze the situation and then flip back to Fe to handle the situation. Hopefully that made some sort of sense. It tends to confuse the people around me.

My Ti also shows up when I'm stuck on an idea & I start analyzing everything in accordance with it. I do this with type theory occasionally - i'll start mentally typing everyone around me & attributing their behaviors to their cognitive functions. It's like I get stuck in an analyzation trap. I'm not sure how this compares to someone with a dominant Ti, but I usually have no idea how to get out of the trap.

My Ti also shows up when I am stressed. I will literally be paralyzed by analyzation and it's usually the only time I cannot make decisions. I'll just keep thinking and thinking and thinking about the same subject and never actually act on it or come to any sort of conclusions. If I do act on it, it tends to be spontanously (that may be the inferior Se coming out as well) and insensitively. In other words, I end up dominated by a negative form of Ti.

Another way it may manifest is when I am upset, I tend to try to get as far away from a situation as possible and then I'll start the analyzation process. However, I never do this gracefully & it usually involves completely shutting people out of my life - which is the opposite of what I initially do. So, I'll be completely connected to someone in every way possible and then something happens & I completely shut them out while I'm analyzing the problem. I'd think this may be the tertiary Ti manifesting it's ugly head as well - but I could be wrong.

And I may be way off with this one...

If any other INFJ's have problems saying how they feel in a romantic situation - I've read this may be common among us - would you chalk it up to Fe or possibly our tertiary Ti working with Fe? I find I do things to show I care - such as handmade cards, cooking dinner for others, etc. My actions are charged by Fe, my opinions & arguments are definitely charged by Fe... but to actually say my innermost feelings is rather difficult for me. I tend to take them straight into detached analyzation mode - which occasionally leads them to get stuck in there.

Thoughts?

Oh, and hello!

 

[nightning]

Another way it may manifest is when I am upset, I tend to try to get as far away from a situation as possible and then I'll start the analyzation process. However, I never do this gracefully & it usually involves completely shutting people out of my life - which is the opposite of what I initially do. So, I'll be completely connected to someone in every way possible and then something happens & I completely shut them out while I'm analyzing the problem. I'd think this may be the tertiary Ti manifesting it's ugly head as well - but I could be wrong.

*waves hi*
I've never thought of this until you brought it up... I also have a tendency to overanalyze on some topics. I know I don't have enough data and anything I come up with would be nothing more than empty speculations, but I couldn't stop myself. I see it more as Ni wanting to understand something and Ti failing to keep up. Tertiary Ti in development is a drag. Without it, you're in happy Fe mode. As long as other people are happy, so will you. Right now, it's at a stage that I see potential problems but I'm unable to correct them. It's frustrating.

If any other INFJ's have problems saying how they feel in a romantic situation - I've read this may be common among us - would you chalk it up to Fe or possibly our tertiary Ti working with Fe? I find I do things to show I care - such as handmade cards, cooking dinner for others, etc. My actions are charged by Fe, my opinions & arguments are definitely charged by Fe... but to actually say my innermost feelings is rather difficult for me. I tend to take them straight into detached analyzation mode - which occasionally leads them to get stuck in there.

I've never been able to get Fe and Ti to work together on anything, especially when dealing with relationships. Expressing feelings is more related to Fi... There is so much unsaid that I want to share... but Fe fears the consequences. So in order to get it out, I have to completely shut down Fe. It's the cold detached analytical mode you've referred to. Even for non-emotionally charged ideas, I've never been able to truly describe the depth of something. It's not for the lack of trying...

That brings something else up. Is this an INXJ thing? Whenever I write/type, I have a tendency to use the backspace a lot... as in type a sentence half way and have to make corrections. People I've talked to who are of other types usually don't do that. This also shows up in speech. I tend to get choppy whenever I have to explain something.

 

[Natrushka]

That brings something else up. Is this an INXJ thing? Whenever I write/type, I have a tendency to use the backspace a lot... as in type a sentence half way and have to make corrections.

Yes, I do this often. I (just did it) know what I want to say but putting it down is often difficult. I also use the 'back' or 'cancel' button a lot

 

[Athenian200]

I really relate to almost everything quietgirl and nightning said just now. Does anyone else relate to this:

It's as if my feelings are on focused on the object, the manifestation. I am aware of what the other person is feeling, in the moment, and reacting to it. But to know/express how I actually feel, I seem to draw myself out of Fe. I tend to have a hunch, or insight, and an idea about how I feel. Then I watch how I perceive other people's emotions, and then try to determine how I feel, sort of using my perception of their emotional state as a "marker." The more "markers," or people I interact with, the better I know my own state. But I really only know my internal feelings from analysis of my perceptions of their emotions, and of my past actions, even though in the moment I react with Feeling, the impression fades as soon as I withdraw into myself again, leaving only a fact and/or a pattern/perspective.

In other words, I determine how I feel about something through the reactions of other people, because my emotion doesn't consciously "work" apart from from the Feeling object.

The thing is, I can recreate the Feeling object in my mind, and relive my response to it, so that I can know how I feel. But once I look inside to reflect on it... it's like all that's left is my inferences based on the feeling, or something, like part of the impression fades when the stimulus is gone. So, it's like while I'm not directly aware of how Feeling affects the subject, but only how it affects the object, I can easily infer how it has affected the subject, although I don't directly feel that part as much as "become aware" of it.

Did that make sense?

 

[Recluse]

Yes, I do this often. I (just did it) know what I want to say but putting it down is often difficult. I also use the 'back' or 'cancel' button a lot

I often type out a full post, inspect the phrasing for clarity . . . and then don't send it. This allows me to sort my thoughts without the need to actually share them.

 

[quietgirl]

That brings something else up. Is this an INXJ thing? Whenever I write/type, I have a tendency to use the backspace a lot... as in type a sentence half way and have to make corrections. People I've talked to who are of other types usually don't do that. This also shows up in speech. I tend to get choppy whenever I have to explain something.

I do this too! AND I had to edit my last post to not only add something, but also fix a spelling error. This was after spending a good 15 minutes actually writing the post...

I usually get choppy if I had to explain something on the spot.

 

[the state i am in]

INFJ here... maybe I can provide some sort of insight on tertiary Ti.

I find my Ti shows up when I am analyzing how I feel. If something happens, I immediately project (and act upon) feeling and then detach and analyze them to bits. Sometimes after analyzation, I end up having a completely different perception of what is going on. However, during the analyzation, I don't actually "feel" the feelings. I'm not comparing them to any sort of moral values - I'm more picking them apart. It's like I'm using my Fe immediately in the situation and then switch into the Ti to analyze the situation and then flip back to Fe to handle the situation. Hopefully that made some sort of sense. It tends to confuse the people around me.

My Ti also shows up when I'm stuck on an idea & I start analyzing everything in accordance with it. I do this with type theory occasionally - i'll start mentally typing everyone around me & attributing their behaviors to their cognitive functions. It's like I get stuck in an analyzation trap. I'm not sure how this compares to someone with a dominant Ti, but I usually have no idea how to get out of the trap.

My Ti also shows up when I am stressed. I will literally be paralyzed by analyzation and it's usually the only time I cannot make decisions. I'll just keep thinking and thinking and thinking about the same subject and never actually act on it or come to any sort of conclusions. If I do act on it, it tends to be spontanously (that may be the inferior Se coming out as well) and insensitively. In other words, I end up dominated by a negative form of Ti.

Another way it may manifest is when I am upset, I tend to try to get as far away from a situation as possible and then I'll start the analyzation process. However, I never do this gracefully & it usually involves completely shutting people out of my life - which is the opposite of what I initially do. So, I'll be completely connected to someone in every way possible and then something happens & I completely shut them out while I'm analyzing the problem. I'd think this may be the tertiary Ti manifesting it's ugly head as well - but I could be wrong.

And I may be way off with this one...

If any other INFJ's have problems saying how they feel in a romantic situation - I've read this may be common among us - would you chalk it up to Fe or possibly our tertiary Ti working with Fe? I find I do things to show I care - such as handmade cards, cooking dinner for others, etc. My actions are charged by Fe, my opinions & arguments are definitely charged by Fe... but to actually say my innermost feelings is rather difficult for me. I tend to take them straight into detached analyzation mode - which occasionally leads them to get stuck in there.

Thoughts?

Oh, and hello!

i agree so much with this i have to reiterate it. Fe gives us information but, especially for introverted infj, it fades when we are alone. this is esp. frustrating bc alone is when we are actually free to place it within our larger framework, get to work on it with our interpretive tools, etc. we have to use Ti to re-trace what has gone on, to recover it and reconstruct the situation, so that we can understand better, plan better, create more effective action.

we need to do this to glean more so that our Fe will be smarter in the future, equipped with better information. we will have an idea of what we want and are looking for and want to explore, etc. a stronger COMPASS to guide us when the voices of others start to get louder. we need it to help ground us so that we can focus on creating and maintaining the best possible expression of ourselves in our next instance of extraverted activity. but yes, our best intentions and determination often get lost in the mix when we lose the pieces in place and the context dissolves into a new one. gets stuck somewhere in between the old Fe silence and the new Fe noise, the old and the new, and the Ti insights don't get a chance to hold on to their MOTIVE/motivation to change, adapt, act, etc.

I really relate to almost everything quietgirl and nightning said just now. Does anyone else relate to this:

It's as if my feelings are on focused on the object, the manifestation. I am aware of what the other person is feeling, in the moment, and reacting to it. But to know/express how I actually feel, I seem to draw myself out of Fe. I tend to have a hunch, or insight, and an idea about how I feel. Then I watch how I perceive other people's emotions, and then try to determine how I feel, sort of using my perception of their emotional state as a "marker." The more "markers," or people I interact with, the better I know my own state. But I really only know my internal feelings from analysis of my perceptions of their emotions, and of my past actions, even though in the moment I react with Feeling, the impression fades as soon as I withdraw into myself again, leaving only a fact and/or a pattern/perspective.

In other words, I determine how I feel about something through the reactions of other people, because my emotion doesn't consciously "work" apart from from the Feeling object.

The thing is, I can recreate the Feeling object in my mind, and relive my response to it, so that I can know how I feel. But once I look inside to reflect on it... it's like all that's left is my inferences based on the feeling, or something, like part of the impression fades when the stimulus is gone. So, it's like while I'm not directly aware of how Feeling affects the subject, but only how it affects the object, I can easily infer how it has affected the subject, although I don't directly feel that part as much as "become aware" of it.

Did that make sense?

yep. we need as much context to work with in order to understand how and why we would feel a certain way. we are still analyzing ourselves from the outside in, not internally like Fi creatures. we do not store our feelings as like email attachments to the actual objects (Si) when we recover and recollect and remember them (infp). we do not have long convoluted case histories and legal precedent that we use to tell us what to do, how we feel, what the weight of this is. we have insights that we glean from the context of our various situations, we absorb the externally expressed signs and signals of emotive semiology/symbolism, and we use those to reconstruct, posit, place our imagined self into the situation and understand what could be going on internally.

the symbolic content of the object, meaningful within the context of the system of signs we currently use, it's constantly changing and evolving. and without the symbolic object present in our attention, we lose touch with the particular feeling/mood we had been *catching* in the moment when the object was presented/represented to us