[Type 8] E8 Vulnerability

[Azure Flame]

Eights,

someone recently told me "8's feel vulnerable but don't look like they are."

Thoughts?

 

[Standuble]

I'm not an eight and feel the accuracy of that statement depends on the ability to see past the outer layer. My view of eights from my primary experience online ks that they are weak and easy targets and gunning at one is the equivalent of infanticide.

You need to develop an eye to see it though so I would be inclined to agree with your statement.

 

[Amargith]

^ I'll sort of agree to that. At first glance, sure, they look intimidating, invincible and often downright scary. Then you take another look and at the beautiful vulnerable soul underneath.

 

[Azure Flame]

I wish I knew more 8's in real life.

 

[ceecee]

Eights,

someone recently told me "8's feel vulnerable but don't look like they are."

Thoughts?

I think it may be more that we want to be able to feel secure enough to show vulnerability but we're not going to let anyone know/see that.

 

[Mal12345]

^ I'll sort of agree to that. At first glance, sure, they look intimidating, invincible and often downright scary. Then you take another look and at the beautiful vulnerable soul underneath.

I have a hard time seeing type 8 that way, even if true. But these days I think by example, not by adjectives.

One example: My former 8w7 boss, a guy who is tougher than nails and meaner than a grizzly bear defending her cubs, came into the office one day and confided to me his thoughts about Terri Schiavo who was in the news at the time. He looked truly sad and spoke in low tones about the possibility of her being taken off life support.

I've never seen him looking or talking like that before or since.

 

[Azure Flame]

I have a hard time seeing type 8 that way, even if true. But these days I think by example, not by adjectives.

One example: My former 8w7 boss, a guy who is tougher than nails and meaner than a grizzly bear defending her cubs, came into the office one day and confided to me his thoughts about Terri Schiavo who was in the news at the time. He looked truly sad and spoke in low tones about the possibility of her being taken off life support.

I've never seen him looking or talking like that before or since.

In my experience its usually the opposite. the 8's are warm and friendly up until you do something to upset them. Though I've never actually upset one before.

 

[Mal12345]

In my experience its usually the opposite. the 8's are warm and friendly up until you do something to upset them. Though I've never actually upset one before.

This one was sociable after work. But he is a business owner in a tough industry striving to outdo the competition. At work, he is 6 foot 3 of pure meanness.

 

[Seymour]

In the enneagram workshops I've attended, the older 8s have talked about discovering how they tend to accidentally polarize people, because others respond to their aggressive energy (even when they aren't doing anything aggressive). It came as a shock to the 8s to realize how they come across as aggressive even when they were feeling anything but, subjectively.

To others, though, the softer side of an 8 can come as a real surprise. It was certainly surprising to me to listen to the hurt that 8s experience when their outward aggressive energy triggers negative (and often not objectively deserved) responses from others.

 

[Mal12345]

In the enneagram workshops I've attended, the older 8s have talked about discovering how they tend to accidentally polarize people, because others respond to their aggressive energy (even when they aren't doing anything aggressive). It came as a shock to the 8s to realize how they come across as aggressive even when they were feeling anything but, subjectively.

To others, though, the softer side of an 8 can come as a real surprise. It was certainly surprising to me to listen to the hurt that 8s experience when their outward aggressive energy triggers negative (and often not objectively deserved) responses from others.

8s at Enneagram conferences are not the 8 that I've known at work. His entire purpose was to make you NOT FORGET his "command" to do everything HIS WAY. And if you didn't like it, you could just step on down the road.

 

[Seymour]

8s at Enneagram conferences are not the 8 that I've known at work. His entire purpose was to make you NOT FORGET his "command" to do everything HIS WAY. And if you didn't like it, you could just step on down the road.

The ones that go to workshops are ones that have been forced to at least start working through their own issues. 8s are usually not naturally introspective types until everything else fails. Of the four at the last workshop, every one had worked through multiple failed relationships, addiction problems, etc. Being an 8 sure looks exhausting from the outside.

 

[Mal12345]

The ones that go to workshops are ones that have been forced to at least start working through their own issues. 8s are usually not naturally introspective types until everything else fails. Of the four at the last workshop, every one had worked through multiple failed relationships, addiction problems, etc. Being an 8 sure looks exhausting from the outside.

8 disintegrates (or sometimes integrates) to 5. When they begin scheming and plotting, that is the darker side of 5. Or they can be more introspective, as you said, as a last resort.

My wife is a 9w8. One time she showed me a picture of herself as a young girl with her face in her hands, looking bummed about something. She admitted she was bummed at the time - but she said she was also scheming. It was a perfect portrait of 8 moving to 5.

My former boss, 8w7, could be introspective and softer at times. One time he mentioned something about having a hard childhood with a tough father, and the manager, who overheard this, was shocked at this sudden expression of something deeper than his usual immediate impulse to rage.

 

[Azure Flame]

Ha. Yes I once read that 8's aren't so much aggressive in a shouting teeth clenching kinda way (although they can be that way too), so much as their actions and decisions are inherently aggressive.

Interesting you mention the polarizing reactions. When I was in the military, it was almost as if I wasn't allowed to be upset. ever. I was supposed to be a ray of sunshine everywhere I walked. Some people didn't like it, and would make a big scene. I once picked up a chair and lifted it over my head so I could put it on the other side of the row of tables. some girl got upset and told me I was a monster and then lectured me on why I'm obnoxious and how to behave correctly... lol. Talk about how to make a man feel good about himself. There are other things too. Parents get upset because I make too much noise in the kitchen, slamming cabinets and not really caring, lol. My ESTJ father would always barrel into the kitchen and just stand there with this incredulous look on his face and say, "What the hell is going on in here?"

"... I'm making lunch..."

 

[Galena]

Parents get upset because I make too much noise in the kitchen, slamming cabinets and not really caring, lol. My ESTJ father would always barrel into the kitchen and just stand there with this incredulous look on his face and say, "What the hell is going on in here?"

"... I'm making lunch..."

Not even an 8, but fuck when this happens. So much.

 

[violet_crown]

I feel at home with myself, and am something of an open book. It was never so much a point of concealing my vulnerabilities as never being fully aware of them. It's so easy for me to just turn off my feelings, and do what I feel is required. In the last couple of years, I've become more in touch with those wounds. The feeling of vulnerability, woundedness, and the desire for intimacy--to love and be loved--are inextricable to me. Acknowledging one is to acknowledge all others, which isnt so easy when the default belief is that you need no one.

Having the courage to explore those vulnerable places is a direct effect of a more active spiritual life. That feeling of connection to God gives me the faith that I can truly survive anything. That there's no need to fight everything and everyone all the time. That I can be open because on a very essential level I'm safe. Knowing that, I just want to give everything I have. I want to use that capacity I have for strength to serve and ensure that those around me are equally provided for. All of it rests on that ability to really live with pain, have courage, and not be such a puss about things.

 

[Animal]

I will copy a post I wrote on another forum about this matter:

Sometimes my inclination is to give to someone I care about, but I protect myself from that very impulse, because people are self-serving and that's what you have to do to survive in this world. My own nurturance towards others is my enemy and I'm at odds with it. As a teen I convinced myself that if I became vulnerable to someone, they would control me completely, and then betray me, and I would die of a broken heart.

I'm afraid if I start to care about someone I'll lose control of my own life. I'll lose everything I've worked for... my castle will crumble. So instead, at the first sign that I can't trust them, I shut them out emotionally and put them in the "you don't matter" category alongside everyone else. I feel this way because I do love to give, and people have taken advantage of it. It's up to me - and no one else- to make sure that doesn't happen.

 

[miss fortune]

I can identify with what [MENTION=10984]DJ Arendee[/MENTION] said about being forced to be a ray of sunshine... I worked a sales job for about 2 1/2 years where that was a requirement... gloss over any negative and accentuate the positive. I got more and more pissed off the more I saw how things were being run and eventually started speaking my mind regardless of the rules. I got pulled into the owner's office one day and was told that I was too influential on people to run around telling things as they are and was asked to lie... I was explicitly asked to lie. I left and did not return. Fuck that shit.

I've spent most of my life being labeled too- something... too energetic, too opinionated, too happy to share said opinion, too intense... whatever (though not too loud... I pride myself at my ninja-like stealth ) and the older I've gotten and the more I've gotten to know myself, the less I've cared about that sort of bullshit. Some people don't like that, but they really have little to no power in my life, so they don't matter

Funny though, the more confident I am in being stubborn, disagreeable, opinionated and blatantly honest, the more confident I am in being honest and open about my shortcomings and failures as well. A lesson and precaution to others in some cases and in some cases it's just kind of a funny story I know who I am now and what I can do and I'm proud of what I've done with my life so far even if it might not impress others... what do I have to hide from? I'm stronger than they may think that I am.

Of course there's always using vulnerabilities in order to fool someone into thinking that I'm not a threat... not that I'd EVER do that

 

[Azure Flame]

I can identify with what [MENTION=10984]DJ Arendee[/MENTION] said about being forced to be a ray of sunshine... I worked a sales job for about 2 1/2 years where that was a requirement... gloss over any negative and accentuate the positive. I got more and more pissed off the more I saw how things were being run and eventually started speaking my mind regardless of the rules. I got pulled into the owner's office one day and was told that I was too influential on people to run around telling things as they are and was asked to lie... I was explicitly asked to lie. I left and did not return. Fuck that shit.

Sounds like my experience as a naval officer.

"I know its miserable but you need to pretend its not because you have 40+ people working for you who depend on you for their morale."

 

[rav3n]

^ I'll sort of agree to that. At first glance, sure, they look intimidating, invincible and often downright scary. Then you take another look and at the beautiful vulnerable soul underneath.

Yes and no. If you're not in our inner circle, you can't access the gooey center since there's insufficient trust. When there's insufficient trust, it's impossible to emotionally hurt an eight since we have kevlar defense and coping mechanisms so if you try, be prepared for a scorched earth policy. If you manage to manipulate an eight, you're either a master or more likely, it's because we let you since we feel you mean us no harm and you're headed in the direction we want to go.

 

[Azure Flame]

Yes and no. If you're not in our inner circle, you can't access the gooey center since there's insufficient trust. When there's insufficient trust, it's impossible to emotionally hurt an eight since we have kevlar defense and coping mechanisms so if you try, be prepared for a scorched earth policy. If you manage to manipulate an eight, you're either a master or more likely, it's because we let you since we feel you mean us no harm and you're headed in the direction we want to go.

I think this only reigns true with experienced 8's. But yes I agree.