[ESFJ] Does everyone REALLY have an ESFJ mom?

[KDude]

By extension: are all mothers really Feelers? I think one or two other people volunteered xSTJ moms, that was all.

My mom is definitely not a Fe type. I would say STJ as well.

 

[Anew Leaf]

Hmm, maybe I should have said "hardly anyone will admit to having an NT mom." I just looked back through this entire thread where a lot of people volunteered what they think their mom's type is. Patches said hers is an ENTJ. I think mine is an INTJ (she has tested as such too). THere were no others!

By extension: are all mothers really Feelers? I think one or two other people volunteered xSTJ moms, that was all.

If the statistics are correct in saying that intuitives make up about 25% of the populace... And only 25% of women are thinking types... How many NT women do you think there are out there? Then looking at this forum with the few hundred regular posters... And then this tread with a dozen or two participants... Why is it surprising that only two people say they have NT mothers? makes sense to me.

And, uh, no... All mothers are not feelers, but there will be a greater number of them versus thinking types.

 

[CzeCze]

I think the way we know people is heavily skewed by the nature of the relationship. "ISFJ" and "ESFJ" are the stereotypical types for mom. I'm guessing women will try (to different degrees and extents) to fulfill roles and behave in ways towards their kids that would make them seem more 'isfj' and 'esfj'. My guess for my mom is 80% INTP or 20% stoic INFP. But even she says (and I can see) how her behavior towards her children had more Fe/FJ and wasn't necessarily how she would treat anyone else.

I can't believe most peoples moms really are XSFJ. Maybe as we get older and can see our parents more as individuals and less as our parents and also can compare our own age/life experience to theirs at their ages while raising us the guesses for "XSFJ" will come down?

Has anyone read 'the managed heart' about flight attendents and how their job conditioned them to behave/respond in their personal lives? I think it's a common book to read in sociology classes. And I think it's an interesting parallel.

 

[Viridian]

I suppose mother who are F types are more inclined to have children when they have the choice not to than the ones who are T types...

There's also the fact that a lot of parents look F-ish from the child's perspective, I think.

 

[rav3n]

My mother's an ISFP and myself, an eNTJ have an ENTP son. It's possible he believes I'm an ESFJ, although not likely...

 

[Engineer]

My mom's an ISFJ. I didn't know the stat until now, but that's still pretty cool... she's closer on the E/I spectrum.

 

[Coriolis]

I agree that it can be hard for young (I)NTs to bridge the gap with SFs, especially SFJs. I would say that it takes maturity for people of vastly different types to get along, more than with similar types. And a young NT is understandably not mature. I think that is the root of the problem.

But also there is the issue of power -- generally, the child is subordinate to the parent. The ESFJ may not want to understand / can't understand the young INT at all, and still expect to parent well, which won't work. So essentially the NT is having the wrong parenting style enforced on them, and the shit hits the fan.

I was at odds with my (ESFJ) mother about many things, particularly rules and customs with little basis in logic, and feel she didn't understand me on certain levels. The unconditional love, acceptance, and support she nonetheless gave me were an essential component of the security I felt as a child.

At the same time, when I got to be 13 or 14, I started to feel what was almost a shift in the balance of power. I had learned enough in certain practical and intellectual areas that she started to ask my advice more, and take my suggestions. I suppose I could have taken advantage of this, but did not, either out of respect for her, or simply because it never served my purposes to do so.

 

[Red Herring]

If the statistics are correct in saying that intuitives make up about 25% of the populace... And only 25% of women are thinking types... How many NT women do you think there are out there? Then looking at this forum with the few hundred regular posters... And then this tread with a dozen or two participants... Why is it surprising that only two people say they have NT mothers? makes sense to me.

And, uh, no... All mothers are not feelers, but there will be a greater number of them versus thinking types.

Actually, the sgtatistics I heard were more along the line of 40% intuitives, 60% sensors (no gender difference) and 50/50 T/F (but a gender difference - 40% thinker women and 40% feeler men).

Fort what it's worth. My mother is probably ENTP. She became somewhat more balanced with age (S/N and T/F are almost balanced now) but was much more of a stereotypical ENTP as a girl or a young woman. The soft and nurturing parent is my INFJ Dad.

As others have probably said, motherhood probably leads you to adopting an ESfJ-ish role (with traditional fathers playing the classic ESTJs). They can't hide their true colors though.

 

[KDude]

Sometimes I think my Dad is the ESFJ of the two (not in a caregiver sense though.. more like all around more funny, popular, people oriented.. Wikipedia has a pic of Terry Bradshaw listed as an ESFJ. I can see similarities between him and my dad). My mom otoh... she's like that Landlady in Kung Fu Hustle. I also made a comparison recently of her being similar to the Star Trek character, B'lanna Torres. Needless to say, neither is an F.

 

[Mad Hatter]

My mom is a true ISFJ, and even though it's kind of difficult to type your own family, I thought she was an ISFJ before I had made her take the test (which confirmed it). She's a very loving and nurturing person in general, and even more with her own children (to a degree which I can only admire). I think I wouldn't get along with her as well if she were an ESFJ though. There's definitely some bonding over Ti sometimes.

 

[Jaq]

My mom is ESFJ and she has a ESFP friend/ follower with an INTP and ISFP daughters

 

[SilkRoad]

If the statistics are correct in saying that intuitives make up about 25% of the populace... And only 25% of women are thinking types... How many NT women do you think there are out there? Then looking at this forum with the few hundred regular posters... And then this tread with a dozen or two participants... Why is it surprising that only two people say they have NT mothers? makes sense to me.

And, uh, no... All mothers are not feelers, but there will be a greater number of them versus thinking types.

I agree that there are likely to be somewhat more Feelers than Thinkers in the mom-population. (in the female population generally).

However, from what I've observed on this forum people will consistently claim to know a lot of Ts, NTs, etc in other aspects of life - including the women that they know. Fathers, boyfriends, girlfriends, wives, friends, bosses, etc. It therefore would surprise me if in reality so few people had a T or NT mom. I think that if you look through that thread I initially referred to (where a lot more people volunteered their family member's types) there will be a similar trend. (although I think there are a number of ISTJ moms).

The reason I find all this odd is because it seems to be consistently moms and grandmothers who get typed as xSFJ. There is a big variety among other family relationships, and just relationships in general. Among moms and grandmothers, no. Very little variety. Hordes of xSFJs. Which is why I'm led to conclude that a lot of it is stereotyping.

 

[Elfboy]

my mom is ESFJ, unfortunately

 

[CzeCze]

I get the feeling within these 12 pages people might have proferred (dammit spellcheck, that is a real word!) the idea that XSFJs are more prone to be mothers. This idea blows my mind, especially considering the year we live in. Go back 20-30 minimum years and I'm pretty sure women - regardless of socioeconomic background, race, or personality type - were expected to get married and have kids all around the world. Same for guys though not as much. I'm surprised there isn't a thread about "are all fathers really XXX" The reason there isn't a parallel is the idea that moms are usually XXX type is much more about gender role expectations and less about a real link between personality type and parenthood.

Biowomen regardless of type during 'child bearing age' generally have working uteruses and are able to get pregnant. It is a genetic imperative and therefore usually quite easy to get pregnant. Ergo motherhood. I don't think type has anything to do with it. Most women I know past the age of 40 are mothers. Most women I know past 40 are not XSFJs.

Now, types most likely NOT to be mothers. There's an interesting thread!

I get the feeling this is kinda like the idea that XXXX type of people are bad drivers. You see and remember the anecdotal evidence that backs up what you already believe and forget/ignore the rest. Also, this thread kinda invites people to offer up their own moms as XSFJ examples.

 

[KDude]

The fact that I mentioned Terry Bradshaw as ESFJ on one hand (and he even gets mentioned on one public page as a sort of archetype of one), and then there's this whole "mom" perception on the other hand, shows just how misunderstood that type even is.

I don't expect everyone to know who Bradshaw is, or even to care to look it up (needless to say, he's an old Football legend), but someone like that should make you think twice before pushing all of your grandmas in this category. "Grandma" and ESFJ is not the same thing.

Another person somewhat like Bradshaw (I think) is Matthew McConaughey. They even played Father/Son in some movie recently. A lot of people might type McConaughey as ESFP (again, because he's kind of cool and not your grandma), but I don't think it's as clearcut myself.

I know using celebrities isn't the best way to make an argument. It's just food for thought.

 

[KDude]

Actually, a lot of the blame can probably be laid on Keirsey and his whole "Guardian" category.

 

[SilkRoad]

I would love to see someone volunteer their grandmother as ISTP or ENTP or something like that. I think PB said one of her grandmas is INTJ, though.

Is there an argument that in the last few decades (like, since our moms and grandmothers) there are more T women than there used to be?

It could make sense in some ways, but if MBTI is really nature rather than nurture, I don't think that should be the case.

 

[Cimarron]

Actually, a lot of the blame can probably be laid on Keirsey and his whole "Guardian" category.

Yes, but I do think that SJs are more likely than other types to have a personality like the "Guardians" that he described. And following from that, a personality more comfortable with the idea of raising (being a guardian for) children as a "calling" of his/her life. Sense of duty and traditional role and social expectation also more likely impact SFJ types somewhat more powerfully (but not overwhelmingly; as CzeCze said, it is a biological drive) than other types, and all those things also support the motherhood mentality. Probably not as disproportionate as we see, but giving a slant toward it.

Not to mention that women of the generation that are mothers or grandmothers now may have often been expected/taught to "act" like SFJs, even when they aren't...

 

[SilkRoad]

Yes, but I do think that SJs are more likely than other types to have a personality like the "Guardians" that he described. And following from that, a personality more comfortable with the idea of raising (being a guardian for) children as a "calling" of his/her life. Sense of duty and traditional role and social expectation also more likely impact SFJ types somewhat more powerfully (but not overwhelmingly; as CzeCze said, it is a biological drive) than other types, and all those things also support the motherhood mentality. Probably not as disproportionate as we see, but giving a slant toward it.

I just tend to think that the slant is likely to be very slight. A bit more of a slant with there being more SJs in the population and quite a lot of xSFJ women - but only a bit of a slant. A tiny one in terms of "xSFJ will more likely choose to be parents." I just don't think people make those kinds of choices on that basis, by and large. And there have been loads of children throughout history resulting from unplanned pregnancies, in or out of married relationships. Women of all types have sex and are capable of conceiving. In so many cases motherhood has barely been a "choice", and that would apply to the generation of our moms and grandmothers too, in large part.

I mean, do people think it's a real aberration for my mom to be INTJ? I'm almost getting that impression from some posts. And she did want kids. It was not forced upon her.

Not to mention that women of the generation that are mothers or grandmothers now may have often been expected/taught to "act" like SFJs, even when they aren't...

I think this is key. Perhaps in many cases it is too hard to look beyond circumstances/socialization/expectations etc to what someone's true type is. I don't know.

I guess I just think people should take a harder look at their moms and grandmothers. I'm sure many of you do have ESFJ moms and grandmas. But I also think in reality it's probably quite a bit less heavily weighted in that direction.

Incidentally, I'm none too sure about either of my (now dead) grandmothers as I don't feel I knew either of them well enough. But I am pretty much certain my Finnish grandmother was an F, and my Canadian grandmother more likely T. My somewhat wild guesses would be IxFJ or IxFP (really don't know about S/N) for Finnish grandmother, and ESTJ for Canadian grandmother. But I did not know either of them well and may be falling into some generational/role stereotypes if I try to type them.

My grandfathers both died before I was born so though I've obviously heard about them, I really have no idea. Though actually I suspect there's a good chance they were both NTs.

 

[KDude]

Yes, but I do think that SJs are more likely than other types to have a personality like the "Guardians" that he described. And following from that, a personality more comfortable with the idea of raising (being a guardian for) children as a "calling" of his/her life. Sense of duty and traditional role and social expectation also more likely impact SFJ types somewhat more powerfully (but not overwhelmingly; as CzeCze said, it is a biological drive) than other types, and all those things also support the motherhood mentality. Probably not as disproportionate as we see, but giving a slant toward it.

Not to mention that women of the generation that are mothers or grandmothers now may have often been expected/taught to "act" like SFJs, even when they aren't...

In any case, I think it plays out differently from locale to locale (or culture or culture). Guardians in the abstract.

I also think EFJ men resemble ETPs at times (the people oriented, outgoing side of ETP at least), but carry less... umm.. weight or swagger, if you will (can't think of a good word for it atm... just that Se dominants just range from being imposing to stylish to noticably irresponsible in some eyes.. ). That all said, they can still be typical dudes. It's not like they're all condemned to be the Church Lady.