[NF] Do you ever just 'know' how things are going to pan out?

[Virtual ghost]

What ruffles NTs feather’s is that you can’t plot it out methodically with charts and graphs. That’s only because you’re not sure how you arrived at the conclusion. What you are certain of is that it will come to pass.

Are you sure about that ?
The moment of understanding can't really be put into words instantly but with time the conclusion can be reason with. Also you can search for concrete confirmation of data or you can import it in the existing known trends in order to see where this goes and see if the threads suggest "hidden variable".

Ah ah And how do you TRY to piss some FP off ?

I always talk in "personalized deaf finitions" my dear. So you may get lost quickly, mind the gap

I do it to stimulate my own creativity. Totally selfish I know !

I don't really try, I just succeed with this in real life since I am totally not FP. I require clear communication so that I don't have to guess what the person actually said, I am pretty coldblooded regarding good and bad things, I don't know what to do with myself so I am climbing social letter and I am willing to make certain compromises regarding that, I can talk about science and politics whole day, I don't spend money on a whim and I am pretty cheap, I never had a pet, never dated anyone, I see creativity more as a means than the final goal, I am rejecting all forms of spirituality and religion, I am known for cutting the person in half right from the door .... etc. (although I don't have bad intentions, I am just serious, determined and I don't want mistakes)


Therefore FPs often get defensive around me and they called me all kinds of things: Asshole, robot, war criminal, slime, mentally ill person ... and many more. What make me roll eyes more than everything else. So when that fails to provoke open reaction they just turn to various forms of depression. So I actually try to avoid them or leave them be since I don't really want to be a torturer.

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

So I actually try to avoid them or leave them be since I don't really want to be a torturer.

Good boy.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Not really, in the case you were more nitpicky person you would have noticed that I am using the term "trying".


*but that is a story for some other thread*

 

[Population: 1]

Are you sure about that ?
The moment of understanding can't really be put into words instantly but with time the conclusion can be reason with. Also you can search for concrete confirmation of data or you can import it in the existing known trends in order to see where this goes and see if the threads suggest "hidden variable".

I’ve got almost 47 years of experiences to reach that conclusion. I’ve met people, people’s girlfriends/boyfriends or just plain friends, made a call on the spot and X amount of time later had my prediction come to pass. How within moments of meeting someone did I gather enough evidence to draw the correct outcome? It isn’t something that happens every time I meet someone but it does happen often enough. I get a feeling and I can’t describe it with logic. People have looked at me like I’ve gone mad but I make a point to mention it then so that when later rolls around they know I’m not just saying I knew it all along.

NTs hate I have a feeling from what I’ve noticed. They scoff at such things. I’m certain that I don’t possess magical powers and that my mind is processing details about the person. Similarities to other people in mannerisms, facial expressions, and in vocal patterns. My brain is drawing on comparisons but I’m not sure what the criteria is.

I’ve probably explained this poorly. I chronically feel like crap at this point so my brain isn’t always working at peak efficiency.

 

[Yuurei]

Yes, often.

Sometime in very specific ways. For example with my husband. He didn't like me at all at first-was a friend's roommate-but we eventually got ot be friends. We were out for a walk when I realized how I felt about him.
But I thought to myself that it'd never work out. I'd never been in a relationship before, never asked anyone out.

But then tat voice in my head, the one that I KNOW is always right said " heh, yeah you're gonna look back on his and laugh when you two are together in a few months." it was not wishful thinking nor trying to convince myself it was just fact as if I had already read this book.
I know that it sounds crazy but this happens often. This 'voice in my head' is not the same as my random subconscious musings. It is less a thought and more a statement, someone coming to me from the future and saying " this WILL happen. I've seen it."

In non-specific terms; yes. I know things will turn out but only because I can deal with just about anything. I know that matter what happens I'll be okay.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I’ve got almost 47 years of experiences to reach that conclusion. I’ve met people, people’s girlfriends/boyfriends or just plain friends, made a call on the spot and X amount of time later had my prediction come to pass. How within moments of meeting someone did I gather enough evidence to draw the correct outcome? It isn’t something that happens every time I meet someone but it does happen often enough. I get a feeling and I can’t describe it with logic. People have looked at me like I’ve gone mad but I make a point to mention it then so that when later rolls around they know I’m not just saying I knew it all along.

NTs hate I have a feeling from what I’ve noticed. They scoff at such things. I’m certain that I don’t possess magical powers and that my mind is processing details about the person. Similarities to other people in mannerisms, facial expressions, and in vocal patterns. My brain is drawing on comparisons but I’m not sure what the criteria is.

I’ve probably explained this poorly. I chronically feel like crap at this point so my brain isn’t always working at peak efficiency.

I can accept this. After all you are from much more "factual" and structured culture than I am. Even if direct throwing away of hunches strikes me more as a ST thing than NT thing.
If it is a big deal situation you should try to gather more info then just a hunch, but hunch is generally a good starting point to start digging deeper into the issue.

 

[cascadeco]

I’ve got almost 47 years of experiences to reach that conclusion. I’ve met people, people’s girlfriends/boyfriends or just plain friends, made a call on the spot and X amount of time later had my prediction come to pass. How within moments of meeting someone did I gather enough evidence to draw the correct outcome? It isn’t something that happens every time I meet someone but it does happen often enough. I get a feeling and I can’t describe it with logic. People have looked at me like I’ve gone mad but I make a point to mention it then so that when later rolls around they know I’m not just saying I knew it all along.

NTs hate I have a feeling from what I’ve noticed. They scoff at such things. I’m certain that I don’t possess magical powers and that my mind is processing details about the person. Similarities to other people in mannerisms, facial expressions, and in vocal patterns. My brain is drawing on comparisons but I’m not sure what the criteria is.

I’ve probably explained this poorly. I chronically feel like crap at this point so my brain isn’t always working at peak efficiency.

To the bolded, I believe this to be the case. I mean I'm not going to speak for everyone, but I am pretty certain this is how it works for me.

Yes, it's a lifetime of observation, experience, and drawing from things / projecting. For me too, it's not entirely even direct experience, I strongly feel (though I don't think I've written about it before) that I've learned a lot about psychology and people through all of the reading I have done -- characters, psychological profiling and relationships written about by *really* intelligent and insightful authors... so I've built on my understanding of people and 'types' through all of that as well.

So yeah- for me there's a lot to do with body language, what people say and more importantly do NOT say or do, and things like that. And probabilities too; like, I've used this example before, and of course there are grays, but if someone for example is obsessed with the brand of car they drive / it's image driven, I can derive a whole hell of a lot of other things about their personality that are very likely to be true, based on just that factoid alone. Things like that. Or, body language/expressions/convo between a couple or in watching family dynamics? Oh that is interesting and can be easy to see if something is 'off' in a dynamic or if someone is more domineering than another, if someone is probably unhappy but trying to pretend they are ok with things, etc.

Regarding situations/events, it's a matter of - well if this action is taken, this person will likely react this way or do this thing, which means this will happen, which means that will inevitably occur... things like that.

Do I think I'm infallible? Of course not. That's stupid. And any error in judgment can be a pleasant surprise down the road - but just adds more 'data' to my database going forward.

 

[Virtual ghost]

However this topic has a certain flaw in logic: If you have enough willpower and resources the future can turn out just as you want it to be. What is textbook self-fulfilling prophecy but future can indeed be "invented" with raw willpower. However judging by pure definitions this still qualifies as "just knowing the future".

 

[Population: 1]

I can accept this. After all you are from much more "factual" and structured culture than I am. Even if direct throwing away of hunches strikes me more as a ST thing than NT thing.
If it is a big deal situation you should try to gather more info then just a hunch, but hunch is generally a good starting point to start digging deeper into the issue.

I probably should have broadened my scope to T’s instead of NT. Sometimes I’m able to delve deeper but sometimes I only encounter the person a couple of times and they float on the periphery of the group I’m engaging with so it’s almost impossible to investigate further.

To the bolded, I believe this to be the case. I mean I'm not going to speak for everyone, but I am pretty certain this is how it works for me.

Yes, it's a lifetime of observation, experience, and drawing from things / projecting. For me too, it's not entirely even direct experience, I strongly feel (though I don't think I've written about it before) that I've learned a lot about psychology and people through all of the reading I have done -- characters, psychological profiling and relationships written about by *really* intelligent and insightful authors... so I've built on my understanding of people and 'types' through all of that as well.

So yeah- for me there's a lot to do with body language, what people say and more importantly do NOT say or do, and things like that. And probabilities too; like, I've used this example before, and of course there are grays, but if someone for example is obsessed with the brand of car they drive / it's image driven, I can derive a whole hell of a lot of other things about their personality that are very likely to be true, based on just that factoid alone. Things like that. Or, body language/expressions/convo between a couple or in watching family dynamics? Oh that is interesting and can be easy to see if something is 'off' in a dynamic or if someone is more domineering than another, etc.

Do I think I'm infallible? Of course not. That's stupid. And any error in judgment can be a pleasant surprise down the road - but just adds more 'data' to my database going forward.

I agree that the omission or avoidance of subjects is equally telling about a person.

I’ve been wrong on occasion as well but as I’ve aged I’ve sharpened my observations I guess. Engaging individuals online is also something different and I’m not as experienced with it as I’ve spent most of my existence engaging people face to face or on the phone. Life before the net.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

No. Lissa, you're tearing me apart.

 

[Zhaylin]

I can but I don’t usually care to do so.
I did think I had magical abilities when I was a kid and into my early 20’s (to a lesser degree). Then I learned about micro-expressions.

Many years ago, I was out in Service with a dear friend (Jehovah’s Witness- going door to door). She struck up a conversation with someone and it was going well. My friend was so excited and happy when the lady was interested in a Bible study. When we made it back to the car, she was telling others about it. I just looked at her and said the lady wasn’t really interested at all. She was just being polite and nice.
Sure enough, the study never happened lol. She never forgot about that day when I burst her bubble and frequently turned to me later for my read of the person.

I’ve had countless similar such occurrences throughout my lifetime.
I think it’s the result of a good balance of the functions. I’ve only been wrong a couple of times.

But predicting relationships and such? Not my business, not my thing. If I know someone and sense they’re troubled, I’ll reach out to act as a sounding board but that’s about it.
Governments and fashion?- even less of my thing rofl.

 

[Tina&Jane]

Sometimes, but I don't think it's really intuition or "magic." For me, it's more considering all the variables in a situation and predicting from there what might happen. I get some pretty far fetched ideas that are very out of touch, unlikely to happen, and really just speculation, but when the information I'm using is more grounded in reality the predictions tend to be more accurate.

 

[Vendrah]

Sometimes I do, but often in terms of rationalization, not in a suddenly and out of nowhere insights. Actually, I even developed a way to guess results in a shooting game (team A vs team B) and I was right something like 15-20 cases versus 2 times wrong, but that went out entirely as rationalization, not raw intuition. And I do use it to my advantage, and I "change the future" when I can and it is convenient. There was a specific versus where I was able to tell my team leader that we were going to be brutally defeated 2 weeks in advance. He paid attention to me, he tried to take care of it, I tried to help, but, well, we failed and were brutally defeated 2 weeks later lol. I even held my laugh when someone said right the game started "we are going to kick their ....". I sometimes refer myself as oracle, and I sometimes I want to make people think its likef magic when it is actually smart and very well arrranged rationalism with some intuition.

However, it happens a lot to me to be accurate right by the wrong justifications, I mean, my why of the stuff happens sometimes is wrong, but it just happens by the way.

The cases where it comes unexplainable out of nowhere are rare, but when they happen (and I dont try to change it) I am mostly right.

However this topic has a certain flaw in logic: If you have enough willpower and resources the future can turn out just as you want it to be. What is textbook self-fulfilling prophecy but future can indeed be "invented" with raw willpower. However judging by pure definitions this still qualifies as "just knowing the future".

In most cases, likely, however not all cases. Sometimes the prediction is like a math problem: There are some cases where you are actually aware of the problem but you dont know the solution or the solution is only one.
Just a random example, if you have enough resources to know that it is going to rain in the next hour, that doesnt mean that you have willpower and resource to stop the rain. You may have resources and willpower to know that it is going to rain but that doesnt mean that you can stop the rain.

 

[Virtual ghost]

In most cases, likely, however not all cases. Sometimes the prediction is like a math problem: There are some cases where you are actually aware of the problem but you dont know the solution or the solution is only one.
Just a random example, if you have enough resources to know that it is going to rain in the next hour, that doesnt mean that you have willpower and resource to stop the rain. You may have resources and willpower to know that it is going to rain but that doesnt mean that you can stop the rain.

To finally answer. Getting to the point where you want to be and controlling every detail along the way are two separate things. Therefore if you allow yourself timetable that isn't 100% rigid you can get the future you want without hitting every wall. Also if we take rain as a symbol of problems that still doesn't mean that you can't develop a skill to see it coming. Or that you can't organize a trip in such a way that you are sleeping in motels during the worst weather. Perhaps you can't stop the rain but you can find shelter and with that you have basically stopped the rain regarding your cause.


Also if you don't know a solution to a problem you can search for the person that knows it, after all we are living in the times where it is impossible to know everything. Therefore even if no one knows you can still make a foundation on which the issue will be cleared out by people who have some expertise on the issue.

 

[Vendrah]

To finally answer. Getting to the point where you want to be and controlling every detail along the way are two separate things. Therefore if you allow yourself timetable that isn't 100% rigid you can get the future you want without hitting every wall. Also if we take rain as a symbol of problems that still doesn't mean that you can't develop a skill to see it coming. Or that you can't organize a trip in such a way that you are sleeping in motels during the worst weather. Perhaps you can't stop the rain but you can find shelter and with that you have basically stopped the rain regarding your cause.


Also if you don't know a solution to a problem you can search for the person that knows it, after all we are living in the times where it is impossible to know everything. Therefore even if no one knows you can still make a foundation on which the issue will be cleared out by people who have some expertise on the issue.

Cool, it doesnt change what I said although. If what you want is to truly and completely stop the rain, you cant do it. You can change what you want however. Thats being adaptive, but being adaptive is one thing, changing the future is entirely different.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Cool, it doesnt change what I said although. If what you want is to truly and completely stop the rain, you cant do it. You can change what you want however. Thats being adaptive, but being adaptive is one thing, changing the future is entirely different.

First.
This is perhaps adaptation but this is still direct changing of the future outcome, adaptation is still changing the future since things went the other way than they naturally go. 10 000 years ago people got hit by rain all the time and that affected their health and property. While with modern construction this is not longer a serious problem for the most part. What suggest that that the natural course of events has been changed deliberately.

Second
Your use of rain is fishy example to begin with, it is true that laws of physics can't be changed but just if one component can't be fundamentally changed that does mean that 10 others can't. If a individual can't change anything with it's willpower then the history classes in schools would not exist. Since "all those great man" wouldn't be able to do anything, what is obviously false. The rain was probably the problem for some of them in some situations but they pushed through it buy controlling other factors. You don't need control over all factors to change the outcome.

 

[Vendrah]

First.
This is perhaps adaptation but this is still direct changing of the future outcome, adaptation is still changing the future since things went the other way than they naturally go. 10 000 years ago people got hit by rain all the time and that affected their health and property. While with modern construction this is not longer a serious problem for the most part. What suggest that that the natural course of events has been changed deliberately.

Second
Your use of rain is fishy example to begin with, it is true that laws of physics can't be changed but just if one component can't be fundamentally changed that does mean that 10 others can't. If a individual can't change anything with it's willpower then the history classes in schools would not exist. Since "all those great man" wouldn't be able to do anything, what is obviously false. The rain was probably the problem for some of them in some situations but they pushed through it buy controlling other factors. You don't need control over all factors to change the outcome.

Back to square one then, you seem a little lost here.

In most cases, likely, however not all cases. Sometimes the prediction is like a math problem: There are some cases where you are actually aware of the problem but you dont know the solution or the solution is only one.
Just a random example, if you have enough resources to know that it is going to rain in the next hour, that doesnt mean that you have willpower and resource to stop the rain. You may have resources and willpower to know that it is going to rain but that doesnt mean that you can stop the rain.

By the way...I never said that everything is destiny!
Rain was just one random example that shows that not everything we know its going to happen can be changed.
As also you said, you cant change the laws of physics with just willpower. Thats another example.
There is at least one case that is a future that you cant change with willpower (the laws of physics), so this topic does make sense.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Back to square one then, you seem a little lost here.



By the way...I never said that everything is destiny!
Rain was just one random example that shows that not everything we know its going to happen can be changed.
As also you said, you cant change the laws of physics with just willpower. Thats another example.
There is at least one case that is a future that you cant change with willpower (the laws of physics), so this topic does make sense.

And I am talking to you about organizing the country/system and that rain is solvable problem. As long as you control it's impact/effect along the way it doesn't matter if it happens or not.

 

[Vendrah]

"However this topic has a certain flaw in logic: If you have enough willpower and resources the future can turn out just as you want it to be. What is textbook self-fulfilling prophecy but future can indeed be "invented" with raw willpower. However judging by pure definitions this still qualifies as "just knowing the future"."

The whole point of rain was pointing out at least one case that, even with 'enough' willpower and resources, the future wont turn out just as you want it. As I said indirectly before, in most cases, with enough willpower and resources the future can turn out just as you want it, but that doesnt happen all the cases, so this topic does not have that flaw in logic. I am not talking about country/system organization at all or what to do to supress or reduce or 'control' (water will fall from the sky anyway) all the effects of a predictable and unchangable future.

 

[Maou]

My intuition is scary accurate and negative usually. I honestly hate being right all the time, and just want to enjoy life without seeing all the bad things threatening my peaceful existence in possibility. I hate it when things go wrong, but ill be prepared.