Do people need to reproduce to feel complete?

[Grand Admiral Crunch]

Is it crappy that some people think so? Jennifer Aniston doesn't like the speculation about her reproducing, but she still puts it out there that she may become a mother one day.

For The Record

This past month in particular has illuminated for me how much we define a woman’s value based on her marital and maternal status. The sheer amount of resources being spent right now by press trying to simply uncover whether or not I am pregnant (for the bajillionth time... but who’s counting) points to the perpetuation of this notion that women are somehow incomplete, unsuccessful, or unhappy if they’re not married with children...

Here’s where I come out on this topic: we are complete with or without a mate, with or without a child. We get to decide for ourselves what is beautiful when it comes to our bodies. That decision is ours and ours alone. Let’s make that decision for ourselves and for the young women in this world who look to us as examples. Let’s make that decision consciously, outside of the tabloid noise. We don’t need to be married or mothers to be complete. We get to determine our own “happily ever after” for ourselves.

I have grown tired of being part of this narrative. Yes, I may become a mother some day, and since I’m laying it all out there, if I ever do, I will be the first to let you know. But I’m not in pursuit of motherhood because I feel incomplete in some way, as our celebrity news culture would lead us all to believe. I resent being made to feel “less than” because my body is changing and/or I had a burger for lunch and was photographed from a weird angle and therefore deemed one of two things: “pregnant” or “fat.” Not to mention the painful awkwardness that comes with being congratulated by friends, coworkers and strangers alike on one’s fictional pregnancy (often a dozen times in a single day).

 

[kyuuei]

It is crappy, for a variety of reasons. I won't ever deny that on a most basic of levels reproduction has a high emphasis because that's what it takes to survive. You don't just want anyone's genes to live on--you want YOURS to live on. It's an instinct based on human nature.. even if your genes are inferior, you don't care.

And, on a societal level, it still has practical applications that are .. pretty real. The reality is? I come across patients all the time.. and the ones with longer life spans are ones with children to help care for them when they're too old to do for themselves anymore. The people who end up sicker tend to be alone. You think a husband or wife is enough--until one passes, and then you're all alone. Children are heavily relied on, especially in our current society, for jobs, progression and change, mental well being, and survival of ourselves to the very end.

But.. with all of that said. As much as I find children important. They are not the only things to live for now. There are so many kids that need loving people in their lives in other ways, and that could be directly impacted by ideas and work that people do. There is a way to feel like you are contributing to the survival of society without "have a baby". There are many, endless important number of ways. And I think this is healing both men and women... women still have this stigma if they don't have children or cannot. They feel inadequate. That won't go away anytime soon. Men were stuck in a self-fulfilling prophecy of being inadequate to parent children without a woman around.

But redirecting our emphasis to people impacting society and thus children benefiting from that to me is the way to go. The growing encouragement of men putting their children first and having emotional connections to their children is something my mother never saw in her day. There was no way a dad would put on a little red riding hood costume so his daughter could be the wolf when my mom was growing up. I'm sure it happened occasionally.. but it is celebrated now-a-days as a beacon and example of what people want for children. And women are finally starting to get the limelight for inventions and innovations that were once stolen by men to perpetuate stereotypes. It isn't shameful for a woman to be the breadwinner while a husband cares for children anymore. It was a fact my dad had to hide for a while in our family growing up.. that my mother made more money than he did for a few years. It shouldn't matter to anyone, but it did at the time still. Things are different, and I hope they continue to be different.

Children should grow up dreaming of being an adult in any and all of its facets.

 

[Lark]

No.

 

[prplchknz]

It is crappy, for a variety of reasons. I won't ever deny that on a most basic of levels reproduction has a high emphasis because that's what it takes to survive. You don't just want anyone's genes to live on--you want YOURS to live on. It's an instinct based on human nature.. even if your genes are inferior, you don't care.

And, on a societal level, it still has practical applications that are .. pretty real. The reality is? I come across patients all the time.. and the ones with longer life spans are ones with children to help care for them when they're too old to do for themselves anymore. The people who end up sicker tend to be alone. You think a husband or wife is enough--until one passes, and then you're all alone. Children are heavily relied on, especially in our current society, for jobs, progression and change, mental well being, and survival of ourselves to the very end.

But.. with all of that said. As much as I find children important. They are not the only things to live for now. There are so many kids that need loving people in their lives in other ways, and that could be directly impacted by ideas and work that people do. There is a way to feel like you are contributing to the survival of society without "have a baby". There are many, endless important number of ways. And I think this is healing both men and women... women still have this stigma if they don't have children or cannot. They feel inadequate. That won't go away anytime soon. Men were stuck in a self-fulfilling prophecy of being inadequate to parent children without a woman around.

But redirecting our emphasis to people impacting society and thus children benefiting from that to me is the way to go. The growing encouragement of men putting their children first and having emotional connections to their children is something my mother never saw in her day. There was no way a dad would put on a little red riding hood costume so his daughter could be the wolf when my mom was growing up. I'm sure it happened occasionally.. but it is celebrated now-a-days as a beacon and example of what people want for children. And women are finally starting to get the limelight for inventions and innovations that were once stolen by men to perpetuate stereotypes. It isn't shameful for a woman to be the breadwinner while a husband cares for children anymore. It was a fact my dad had to hide for a while in our family growing up.. that my mother made more money than he did for a few years. It shouldn't matter to anyone, but it did at the time still. Things are different, and I hope they continue to be different.

Children should grow up dreaming of being an adult in any and all of its facets.

I don't want to continue my genes, I hope other people want to continue their genes, i don't want to doom the human race, which isn't gonna happen because lack of sex believe me. I just think other people's genes are more qualified than mine.

 

[Grand Admiral Crunch]

[MENTION=4939]kyuuei[/MENTION] Thank you for the balanced and thoughtful response.

The reality is? I come across patients all the time.. and the ones with longer life spans are ones with children to help care for them when they're too old to do for themselves anymore. The people who end up sicker tend to be alone.

Are sickly people less likely to have kids or are they sickly because of not having kids? Maybe a bit of both? ...I think leaving a spouse alone is a very real and big concern also.

 

[Grand Admiral Crunch]

I don't want to continue my genes, I hope other people want to continue their genes, i don't want to doom the human race, which isn't gonna happen because lack of sex believe me. I just think other people's genes are more qualified than mine.

Maybe your genes are recessive and you would be continuing someone else genes more than your own. It is a gamble, I think, but i'm glad your genes were continued long enough for you to be here.

 

[Santosha]

I don't ever want to feel 'complete'. Then what?

 

[small.wonder]

Yeah, I echo the already expressed sentiment that this is really sad in a number of ways, but I won't go into all of that.

On the specific topic of marriage and motherhood, I think we have a two way street of issues today around that. One is that which has been mentioned, putting too much emphasis on marriage + motherhood and seeing it as some sort of mandatory requirement for a fully lived life. On the opposite side though, I feel that we also have the issue of commitment phobia and the abuse of self sufficiency-- where it reaches a point of emotional detachment and almost feeling like the desire for SO or family is weak or silly.

I've experienced both of the above, but honestly mostly the latter-- feeling that I should be ashamed of my desires for marriage and family, in a culture where getting married before 30 is increasingly seen as scandalous and foolish. Don't get me wrong, I'm not your serial monogomist, I've been single for the last 7 years (the first half of which, was intentional). I'm quite against the notion of people expecting to find completion or happiness through a relationship, or by having children, but I think there's also an inverse danger. As with all things, the balanced happy medium is usually what's best.

Perhaps the bottom line is that topics of marriage and family, are totally personal, and we should never define ourselves or others by their pertaining status (whatever it may be).

 

[gromit]

It's natural to want to reproduce. But it shouldnt define anybody and we shouldn't look down on people who don't (or people who do).

 

[Yama]

Nope. Don't want to and never will. Don't need to in order to feel complete.

 

[Forever]

Would anyone answer yes to this question? (I mean I'm not, but... curious.)

 

[ceecee]

Would anyone answer yes to this question? (I mean I'm not, but... curious.)

I'm sure there are people who would, especially if their relationships have religious factors or they live in a society that places significance on children for other reasons. India comes to mind.

 

[Grand Admiral Crunch]

Would anyone answer yes to this question? (I mean I'm not, but... curious.)

I don't know if anyone here will, but there are people who think that they themselves need kids and everyone else does also. And they believe that those without kids are lesser adults and less interesting.

 

[Grand Admiral Crunch]

I don't ever want to feel 'complete'. Then what?

Then you have diapers to change

 

[Forever]

I'm sure there are people who would, especially if their relationships have religious factors or they live in a society that places significance on children for other reasons. India comes to mind.

Ah yes, that would make sense.

I don't know if anyone here will, but there are people who think that they themselves need kids and everyone else does also. And they believe that those without kids are lesser adults and less interesting.

I never have heard of that. It sounds bizarre that I would think less of a person without kids. I have never thought noble of person having kids unless they had like a dozen or more and all grew up quite normal haha.

 

[Cowardly]

I don't want to continue my genes, I hope other people want to continue their genes, i don't want to doom the human race, which isn't gonna happen because lack of sex believe me. I just think other people's genes are more qualified than mine.

My genes will go down with me, as I've ordered.

 

[Mole]

We share the same DNA with every living thing on Earth over the last four thousand million years. We are intimately related to every living thing. As well our gene pool started with about five thousand of us only one hundred thousand years ago, and as a result our genes are remarkably homogeneous.

We have already reproduced and there are about seven thousand million of us alive today. We are all closely related and in prosperous countries we already look after each other. Prosperity is increasing across the world and in the last twenty years more than two hundred million Chinese moved from poverty to prosperity. And we expect this to continue.

So in prosperous countries we can devote ourselves to our families or we can devote ourselves to the wider community.

 

[Grand Admiral Crunch]

We share the same DNA with every living thing on Earth over the last four thousand million years. We are intimately related to every living thing. As well our gene pool started with about five thousand of us only one hundred thousand years ago, and as a result our genes are remarkably homogeneous.

We have already reproduced and there are about seven thousand million of us alive today. We are all closely related and in prosperous countries we already look after each other. Prosperity is increasing across the world and in the last twenty years more than two hundred million Chinese moved from poverty to prosperity. And we expect this to continue.

So in prosperous countries we can devote ourselves to our families or we can devote ourselves to the wider community.

Sometimes I feel like you just come here to derail threads

 

[Mole]

Sometimes I feel like you just come here to derail threads

What I do is put the discussion into a larger context. And because I don't pander to the discussion, this is resented.

Of course it is nice to be pandered to, but there is a wider world where we breathe freely and deeply and think free and deep thoughts.

 

[kyuuei]

[MENTION=4939]kyuuei[/MENTION] Thank you for the balanced and thoughtful response.



Are sickly people less likely to have kids or are they sickly because of not having kids? Maybe a bit of both? ...I think leaving a spouse alone is a very real and big concern also.

Kids are statistically more likely to be healthy, capable of helping, and care about the health of their parents and in turn motivate parents to care for themselves. Kids a re good motivators. Also, kids can stave off needing assisted living for many years. To use my own family as an example, my mother cared for my grandmother who was thought would be dead in 6 months. .... for 8 years. I treated my mother's disease personally and got her from so weak she couldn't walk well to being pretty normal and independent.
Stuff like that. Kids are usually gonna be around and not yet suffering from medical ailments. These are obviously macroscopic generalizations and certainly not the only way. But it is the most common one.