Do people need to reproduce to feel complete?

[Blackout]

I just wish we could stop comparing ourselves so often or completely with our ancestors or far off and distant way of life. It doesn't always prove or deny anything and we have proven to be very adaptable and capable of conscious change or control of ourselves.

Obviously, people choose to not have kids if they don't want to, it's just this unspoken expectation that still many cannot really see beyond because its' become so conditioned into how we see reality and I suppose many people just don't creativity or independence to imagine a life without the time consuming commitments of family/children even if they never liked the idea all that much in the first place, or liked their own family or origin. I mean, it's like we're all just supposed to keep appearances and external 'realities' in check when even though below the surface none of it is true.

 

[Blackout]

We share the same DNA with every living thing on Earth over the last four thousand million years. We are intimately related to every living thing. As well our gene pool started with about five thousand of us only one hundred thousand years ago, and as a result our genes are remarkably homogeneous.

We have already reproduced and there are about seven thousand million of us alive today. We are all closely related and in prosperous countries we already look after each other. Prosperity is increasing across the world and in the last twenty years more than two hundred million Chinese moved from poverty to prosperity. And we expect this to continue.

So in prosperous countries we can devote ourselves to our families or we can devote ourselves to the wider community.

Yes, through shipping the manufacturing industry overseas, lol.
(not saying it's wrong)
By the mighty Zeus! such strange and unmistakable magic! how does such wondrous take place! No one can say!

If you work really hard! tree's and abundance will magically appear out of the earth and the clouds will open up and money will appear from the skies and things will just randomly happen by the great magical sky-castle god's and totally lack of education and religion! because like, religion makes all things possible!


ZEUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And by whose ideas or account does overpopulation count for!? FACTS BE DAMN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[EcK]

[MENTION=5159]Lexicon[/MENTION] .

 

[Evo]

I find it amusing that everyone has answered no. But it still seems like an unconscious drive irl for people.

I'm not allowed to say I don't want kids. To anyone. Without getting shit for it, or at the very least, without someone getting uncomfortable. Saying no to this question seems pretty unrealistic still imo.

 

[Bush]

I find it amusing that everyone has answered no. But it still seems like an unconscious drive irl for people.

I'm not allowed to say I don't want kids. To anyone. Without getting shit for it, or at the very least, without someone getting uncomfortable. Saying no to this question seems pretty unrealistic still imo.

For serious. Everyone has their own path in life, and everyone can do what they want to do. Fuck everything and everybody else.

There's that standard barrage of questions, you know? And by "question" I mean "a shitload of external pressure."

"Oh, when are the two of you going to get engaged?"

"Oh, when are you guys gonna get married?"

"So when you gonna have a kid?"


But as a father of one (and only one, forever), it turns out that it doesn't stop there.

"When are you gonna have another one?"



You know what's cool, though, is getting asked that by a mother of three or four, and then asking the same question. Hems and haws forever.

 

[Evo]

For serious. Everyone has their own path in life, and everyone can do what they want to do. Fuck everything and everybody else.

There's that standard barrage of questions, you know? And by "question" I mean "a shitload of external pressure."

"Oh, when are the two of you going to get engaged?"

"Oh, when are you guys gonna get married?"

"So when you gonna have a kid?"

I've even been asked these questions when the people know i'm single...

But as a father of one (and only one, forever), it turns out that it doesn't stop there.

"When are you gonna have another one?"

You know what's cool, though, is getting asked that by a mother of three or four, and then asking the same question. Hems and haws forever.

that's just evil haha. I like it!

 

[Dreamer]

HAHAHAHA [MENTION=14015]Urarienev[/MENTION] I am cracking UP! That is way too hilarious and slightly perverse/creepy. The creep factor makes that comment so much better.

 

[small.wonder]

I find it amusing that everyone has answered no. But it still seems like an unconscious drive irl for people.

I'm not allowed to say I don't want kids. To anyone. Without getting shit for it, or at the very least, without someone getting uncomfortable. Saying no to this question seems pretty unrealistic still imo.

I hear you, and for the record my response was "No, but..."

In truth, I have experienced what you are describing, but just not very often. Far and away more frequently, I get comments like, "*gasp* You want marriage and children?!" like they are shocked, would have never expected it of me. I guess that could explain why no one asks me if I'm dating anyone...

Actually, come to think of it, the only people who really ever comment on my marital status are older (Dadish/Uncleish) men that I know-- things like "why is no one pursuing you?!". I'm totally okay with that though!

 

[ZNP-TBA]

I think there is an inbuilt desire for most of us to reproduce. The desire can be tempered or even shut down with a different value system but it still exists. Our genes just care about survival into the future and reproduction is a method of doing it.

 

[Bush]

What I do is put the discussion into a larger context. And because I don't pander to the discussion, this is resented.

Of course it is nice to be pandered to, but there is a wider world where we breathe freely and deeply and think free and deep thoughts.

I hate to meta-derail, but I don't see it as a derail, so much as it is a general statement on reproduction in general and a thought on why we may generally have the drive/expectation to reproduce

 

[Grand Admiral Crunch]

I hate to meta-derail, but I don't see it as a derail, so much as it is a general statement on reproduction in general and a thought on why we may generally have the drive/expectation to reproduce

Meta Derailer!
[MENTION=3325]Mole[/MENTION] could start his own thread if he wants the discussion to be in a broader context.

 

[Grand Admiral Crunch]

I think there is an inbuilt desire for most of us to reproduce. The desire can be tempered or even shut down with a different value system but it still exists. Our genes just care about survival into the future and reproduction is a method of doing it.

Do you think that children provide a certain type of satisfaction that nothing else can? And is this needed for a sense of wholeness? Do people without children feel a lacking and regret not having kids later?

 

[Grand Admiral Crunch]

I find it amusing that everyone has answered no. But it still seems like an unconscious drive irl for people.

I'm not allowed to say I don't want kids. To anyone. Without getting shit for it, or at the very least, without someone getting uncomfortable. Saying no to this question seems pretty unrealistic still imo.

Most of the time, I feel like it is rude to ask women without children about their plans for having kids. In my late 20's, old dudes did that to me frequently. They'd ask when they met me if I had kids and then respond with something like "better get to cracking!" I don't know why these old dudes care or think it is there business, but it seems that they did. Maybe it has something more to do with them than me? I don't know.

 

[ZNP-TBA]

Do you think that children provide a certain type of satisfaction that nothing else can? And is this needed for a sense of wholeness? Do people without children feel a lacking and regret not having kids later?

Yes to all the above actually.

In some sense I see our bodies and 'beings' as vehicles for our genes. I think our genes have a prime directive to propagate which induce in us a mental and emotional desire to see our legacies continue. Of course there are tons of people out there that do not want biological children of their own but I think those urges are repressed at some point before (nothing wrong with that btw, personal choice )

 

[Mole]

Yes, through shipping the manufacturing industry overseas, lol.
(not saying it's wrong)
By the mighty Zeus! such strange and unmistakable magic! how does such wondrous take place! No one can say!

Yes, we can. And we have been able to say so since 1776 with the book The Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith, a Scottish economist and moral philosopher.

Countries, like Australia, that follow Adam Smith, prosper, and those that reject the economics of Adam Smith become failed States.

The modern economics of Adam Smith replaced the religious economics of usury. The religious economics of usury are intuitive, while the modern economics of Adam Smith are counter-intuitive. Who would have guessed that private greed leads to public prosperity?

The economics of usury are sanctioned by religion and superstition, while modern economics require a new epistemology.

It amazes me that after three hundred and fifty years that someone can say they don't know how the wealth of nations is created.

 

[Mole]

We do have a survival instinct, and we do have a sexual instinct, but we do not have an instinct to reproduce.

We can and do satisfy our sexual instinct without reproducing every day. Sex without reproduction is normal and has become normal and convenient since the invention of the contraceptive pill round about the 1960s.

Natural selection has seen to it we have no instinct to reproduce, rather natural selection has given us the sexual instinct.

 

[small.wonder]

Okay, I have to add to my response on this topic. I came back directly to this thread because of seeing a picture of a family I know-- it was of the five of them at a wedding together, their three children now grown (the youngest is 17, I believe). There is something that so tugs my heart about seeing that! The likeness of the parents features in the children, and the community a family can become. It's really beautiful.

Don't get me wrong, I come from a not-so-beautiful, pretty normal family where there was little communication or listening (really I do love them though). I realize that families aren't perfect, but I would really love to have one. The only reason that I haven't yet, is that I believe having the right partner is crucile to having a healthy foundation to build a family on. And that's another topic.

 

[ZNP-TBA]

Yes, we can. And we have been able to say so since 1776 with the book The Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith, a Scottish economist and moral philosopher.

Countries, like Australia, that follow Adam Smith, prosper, and those that reject the economics of Adam Smith become failed States.

The modern economics of Adam Smith replaced the religious economics of usury. The religious economics of usury are intuitive, while the modern economics of Adam Smith are counter-intuitive. Who would have guessed that private greed leads to public prosperity?

The economics of usury are sanctioned by religion and superstition, while modern economics require a new epistemology.

It amazes me that after three hundred and fifty years that someone can say they don't know how the wealth of nations is created.

I think your take on modern economics is a little outdated. Adam Smith was a classical economist but a lot of progress (progress is debatable of course) has been made since Smith's day. Most modern and Western economies today practice a form of Neo-Keynesianism.

I think the thrust of Smith's argument and that of most classical economists was that some kind of respect for private property rights leads to public prosperity. Sometimes this is looked at as greed and others look at it as common sense.

Interest (usury) was explained well by the Austrian School of Economics I think. Interest is the value of time preference.

We might be going off topic though.

 

[ZNP-TBA]

We do have a survival instinct, and we do have a sexual instinct, but we do not have an instinct to reproduce.

We can and do satisfy our sexual instinct without reproducing every day. Sex without reproduction is normal and has become normal and convenient since the invention of the contraceptive pill round about the 1960s.

Natural selection has seen to it we have no instinct to reproduce, rather natural selection has given us the sexual instinct.

You're playing around with two concepts here, sexual instinct and reproduction without connecting them. Why has evolution provided us with a sexual instinct and ability to receive sexual gratification (i.e. why does sex feel good?). My intuitive answer (and I think it's supported with research) is that we have a sexual instinct to obtain the pleasure sought in sex for the purpose of reproducing. It's nature's way of 'rewarding' and motivating our species to reproduce. When we satiate our sexual instinct without reproducing (using contraceptive countermeasures) we are merely 'tricking' our bodies into thinking they are reproducing when, in fact, they are not.

I'm not a prude but the visceral and 'naked' purpose of sex is reproduction. Pleasure from it is simply nature's reward.

 

[ZNP-TBA]

Okay, I have to add to my response on this topic. I came back directly to this thread because of seeing a picture of a family I know-- it was of the five of them at a wedding together, their three children now grown (the youngest is 17, I believe). There is something that so tugs my heart about seeing that! The likeness of the parents features in the children, and the community a family can become. It's really beautiful.

Yeah I get the same satisfaction out of seeing that too. That 'feeling' is not wholly logical but it's there. I can't help but to wonder what my own family would look like and be like. The desire for children waxes and wanes on me. On the one hand I sometimes think about how awesome it would be but then I see others (good parents btw) raise their children and how their lives have gone through a paradigm shift. Their lives have become about their children first and this is for at least 18-20 (or more depending on how many children are expected/desired). I see it as a worthy endeavor, even exciting, but also limiting and restricting and I don't know how I feel about that quite yet.

Don't get me wrong, I come from a not-so-beautiful, pretty normal family where there was little communication or listening (really I do love them though). I realize that families aren't perfect, but I would really love to have one. The only reason that I haven't yet, is that I believe having the right partner is crucile to having a healthy foundation to build a family on. And that's another topic.

I appreciate that you put a high value on yourself and expect no less than from your future partner. It bodes well for having children and raising them in a healthy, loving, and productive environment. What kind of mother do you want to be? I mean career wise (stay at home or one of you guys staying at home or both working with trusted caretakers to watch your children when you're working). Would you home school?