[Fe] Do others feel compelled to advise people?

[raz]

I admit, I have a hard time keeping my own problems in check, but I have absolutely no problem trying to sort through another person's issues. If someone's having a problem that I feel I can fix, I jump at the opportunity.

For example, just now in my math class, a girl was asking the teacher for help planning out her curriculum. She had spoken to advisers already, but was asking the teacher for input. I had already learned about how the curriculum planning worked on my own, and planned out my curriculum without the aid of an adviser. So, naturally, I thought I could fix her problem if I could just find out what it was.

I kept asking her while she was talking to the teacher, but the teacher kept telling me it was between her and the student. I pulled up the classes they were talking about on the computer, and it just bothered me so much to not be able to help. I swear, regardless of how much my teacher told me to leave them alone, I kept trying to find ways back into the conversation. I just kept thinking, "LET ME FIX IT!" Eventually I had to give up, and they treated me like I knew nothing. I know I was wrong in butting in. It's just something kept making me keep trying.

Is anyone else like that? It's why I kind of want to become an adviser at my college.

 

[Totenkindly]

I think it's a good motivation to have, but you'll have to temper it to stay out when people don't want you involved. What you were doing today was making the objects of your "help" uncomfortable, not helped.

If you find yourself getting pushy with it, you should examine your motivations for why you feel the need to be involved and make sure it's all for the people in need rather than for any sort of self-validation.

(Speaking from my own introspective experience here.)

 

[raz]

So, then it's not good enough to just want to fix the problem? I guess that's a lack of Fe on my part. When I look at it, I see a ton of tangible results from doing it. I don't look at it from the point of view of, "I really helped that person! I feel good about myself!"

 

[Maverick]

I think it's a good motivation to have, but you'll have to temper it to stay out when people don't want you involved. What you were doing today was making the objects of your "help" uncomfortable, not helped.

If you find yourself getting pushy with it, you should examine your motivations for why you feel the need to be involved and make sure it's all for the people in need rather than for any sort of self-validation.

(Speaking from my own introspective experience here.)

+1

Completely agree there, good base motivation, but has to be tempered. I know I have the same urge but I do not advise anyone unless asked or it's clear the other person wants my help. The other has to feel comfortable about receiving help in the first place.

Now when someone talks to me about a problem, I don't offer a fix, I listen and acknowledge... and I find that it gives better results than giving what seems to me to be a solution.

 

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

Yep. I like giving advice.

 

[Eldanen]

People like giving advice but they don't like taking it .

 

[INA]

People who consistently make it a point to advise people who didn't solicit their advice have issues. But what better way to validate self than to see others adopt your guidance? It's confirmation you're not just a deluded quack.

 

[Totenkindly]

So, then it's not good enough to just want to fix the problem? I guess that's a lack of Fe on my part...

Possibly.

The point is not whether or not you can solve the problem, it's that you were crossing boundaries established by the people you wanted to help, and they didn't want your help, and they were desiring to do it on their own for whatever reason.

And if you're trying to help people by violating boundaries they've established, then you're giving them what they actually want. You were more interested in problem solving than meeting those particular people's needs at the time.

 

[raz]

I was more interested in the problem solving. I wasn't really that interested in "advising" them per se. It was more of they were having problems in an area that I felt I could help in. It just sucked being told to back off. I think I went about this thread in the wrong way.

 

[alicia91]

I'm the same way. But I'm just like that in general - love to fix things, solve problems, make things better, more efficient etc. so I find myself wanting to give advice and help sort things out. But I learned a long time ago to read the situation and see if my help is wanted. If it's not, it some times bothers me if I think they are wasting time, resources, etc. when I have the easy fix.

But.. oh well, if they don't want it..........what can you do?

 

[Economica]

So, then it's not good enough to just want to fix the problem? I guess that's a lack of Fe on my part. When I look at it, I see a ton of tangible results from doing it. I don't look at it from the point of view of, "I really helped that person! I feel good about myself!"

Until not too long ago I used a similar rationale to explain why I played therapist to practically everyone in my life to a greater or lesser extent: They had a problem on which they could use outside perspective, I enjoyed analyzing people's problems, where was the harm?

Up to a certain point, there wasn't any harm. I still like to think I've done a lot of good (forum examples of my advice: 1a, 1b, 2, 3a, 3b), although I now attribute my successes more to the fact that I was a trustworthy, sympathetic friend who asked tough questions and actively listened to the answers and less to my illustrious analyses.

However, there were signs that my interest in playing therapist was unhealthy: First, I was taking it to the point of lost-cause altruism in some cases, which ran conspicuously contrary to my official Nietzsche-Rand morality. Second, I curiously had difficulty seeing the merits and enjoying the company of people who had no use for my therapy. Third, I took spirited offense at one such person's goodnatured suggestion that I seek therapy in order to revisit my severance of my relationship with my parents. Blackwater gave me a taste of my own medicine for the second and third symptom; here's a quote from an email he sent me not too long before I started this thread (courtesy of Google Translate and some editing by me):

If we turn to Christian, I simply do not understand why the two of you regularly end up quarrelling at preparties and the like. It is possible to have a cool relation to someone without constantly coming into conflict. I have had such relations with various persons in the circle around us without it causing disturbances. But you and Christian regularly land in toxic exchanges. For the record, I feel very sure that you have both done your part, and Christian certainly has his shortcomings, but you should still be able to slip through preparties and the like without e.g. participating in discussions in which Christian also participates. (...) Perhaps you did not quite see where I was headed when I brought up Christian's suggestion that you get therapy and your characterization of his suggestion as an 'indictment'? I have - ever since that time 1.5 years ago - speculated whether it was a kind of Freudian slip on your part. As if your internal representation of visiting a psychologist was that it was embarrassing, weak, a stain on one's honor; - Something you could 'accused' of. That would at least be congruent with an understanding of oneself as a 'superior'; [Economica] who sends her friends to the psychologist, but who is herself above that kind of wretchedness.

(What, your friends don't send you mails like this one? )

Jennifer and InaF3157's takes regarding motivation are similar:

If you find yourself getting pushy with it, you should examine your motivations for why you feel the need to be involved and make sure it's all for the people in need rather than for any sort of self-validation.

People who consistently make it a point to advise people who didn't solicit their advice have issues. But what better way to validate self than to see others adopt your guidance? It's confirmation you're not just a deluded quack.

Basically, I think I compulsively played therapist because doing so sustained my narrow, but prestigious identity as "the insightful problem-solver".

Today, after a lot of soul-searching, I rather think I must have managed to expand (my own perception of) my social value; at any rate I no longer feel that urge to get at people's problems and solve them when there's nothing in it for me (and by nothing, I mean nothing, including the thrill of a challenge). In fact I can't even recall when I last used my standard, almost always rewarding conversation opener: "So, how's your relationship with your parents?"

---

raz1337, the fact that you feel, sorry, think that:

I went about this thread in the wrong way.

makes me wonder if perhaps your case of compulsive problem-solving is not too different from mine. That would explain if the responses you have gotten are disconcerting to you, at any rate. Of course, if your case is indeed like mine, then you're probably not going to agree that it is anytime soon. Should you be willing to entertain the notion that it might be, however, then try asking yourself: "What social value do I have (i.e. what do other people appreciate me for) besides problem-solving?" If you feel that your identity is incomplete without that element, well, then you're in good (or at least my ) company. Let the soul-searching begin!

---

... And yes, I'm aware of the irony of this post, considering that I'm claiming the past tense for my own compulsive advice-giving.

 

[ArbiterDewey]

I'm a problem-solver myself (may be an ISTJ thing too, just throwing it out there). I tend to only offer my advice once I realize that the other people giving an attempt at it have failed to accomplish things in the best way. I guess this assumes that the best way to do it is "my" way, but 9/10 times when it's something I'm highly knowledgeable in, I am right.

On another note, if you ONLY solve other people's problems to escape your own and validate self, this is unhealthy (I know, I've been there too). It really depends on the circumstances too.

 

[wolfy]

Yeah, I love teaching people. I've had to temper the urge.

 

[SillySapienne]

Yes.

I pretty much view much if not most of human verbal communication as a means to share personal experience, feelings, opinions, and advice.

We attempt to connect with others in order to try to better understand ourselves, each other, and the world in which we live.

Whenever a problem arises in a conversation, I believe that all participants who are able to offer some potentially beneficial advice, should.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm always having to remind myself that people probably don't want advice, and especially not mine. For instance, when someone is sharing a problem, my automatic line of reasoning is that they're doing so because they want a solution, which, from what I've heard, is generally wrong.

 

[kuranes]

If someone seems to be having an urgent problem, that I think I know a solution to, and I have the time, I will typically offer it. Usually the people who get such advice are thankful. I have had people who were looking for help, and couldn't speak English, look at me with a lot of relief and gratitude, when I spoke up and managed to use my limited Spanish to help them.

Conflicts on this subject, for me, don't typically happen with people being surly about unwanted advice, although that has happened a few times. Instead it normally happens when I hear someone giving a person wrong advice. I always have to think hard about whether to diplomatically say something like "an alternative way to accomplish that is..."

However, giving somebody advice about how to navigate on a computer or how to find something in the city is different than telling people about larger issues such as self-discipline, spiritual philosophy, socio-economic fairness, etc.

Sometimes people "ask" for advice in indirect ways too, that can be misunderstood. When someone vents about a problem that they are currently stumped with, they don't always want a solution. Sometimes they just want to know that someone sees their situation from their POV, or maybe "cares" about them.

Sometimes I may complain that "we don't seem to have a Spring in Chicago. We go right from late Winter into Summer." One sort of friend may understand that I am just venting. Another may say sarcatically "Well, what do you expect to do about it ? Call 'Customer Service' " ?

I was telling a friend about how regular dealers are beginning to use "Craigslist" to sell products that are not bargains whatsoever; which is the what the original premise of the online resource was, to offer used items at "garage sale" prices and for there to be a directory of sorts for that. Consumers selling to one another directly.

I explained the situation to him offhandedly. How I have to wade through a lot of retailers offering items at full market price ( or worse ) to find "the little guys". It's a hassle because it takes extra time. I foolishly mentioned to him that I found this annoying, and characteristically he started trying to explain to me the POV of the retailers trying to make a buck in this new internet oriented society. I had to remind him, playfully but still somewhat seriously, that I don't always say things just to have reality restated to me. Sometimes I just want a friend to agree with me that "yeah, that sucks, man", in more of a "us against the world" way. I tease this guy ( who is the most generous person I've ever met, and a great guy ) all the time for his stance by saying "Whose side are you on?" He's told me that other friends of his tell him the same thing, a little exasperated. I'm sure that he would defend my position too, if I was absent and someone was criticizing how I went about doing something. He seems to always try to explain how "the other guy" might be motivated, and sometimes I just don't give a shit about what their concerns are, even though I still take those kinds of things into account when planning. ( I drive defensively, for example. )

 

[Grungemouse]

My initial response is to give advice, secondary is formulating a coherent speech, then I decide to scrap it because I doubt the other person would listen or care.

 

[hermeticdancer]

ISTJs are the masters of 'fixing things' emphasis on 'things'

When ISTj sees a problem their inclanation is to fix it, this is good when it comes to things and objective issues, but it can be hard when it comes to fixing another persons problems. Espically with emotionally sensitive people.

It can be perceived by people as not listening, and people can resent it after a while. That's when it comes to relationships

The best thing is to listen and not try to fix people.

As an ENFP, I try to fix people's emotional problems, I see everything as an emotional problem, I think the ISTJ sees things as objective problems, its projection I think. Its a habbit that annoys people.

Good intentions though.

 

[Condor]

I used to give advice, but have dialed that way back. I've found out that people usually know the answer to their own questions, but seek advice in order to dissuade themselves from the most logical course of action. When queried now by someone about "What would you do...?" my response is "I'd figure it out for myself."

I guess that would count as advice. I guess any kind of response would constitute advice.

 

[Kollin]

I find people are usually looking for ...I usually don't offer a solution unless they specifically ask me what I think they should do...
but often people don't want to hear about other people's personal problems...