[Traditional Enneagram] Correlating Enneagram and MBTI

[RobinSkye]

What do you guys think of this? A Calibrated Table of Correlations for the Enneagram and MBTI systems

I personally relate to both of these quite closely:

The four with five wing.
Core of sub-type: four with five wing; ENTP
Auxiliary/wing: five with six wing; INxP (Ambidextrous T and F)
Point of stress/disintegration: two with one-wing; ENFJ
Point of Integration/Neurosis: one with nine-wing; ExTJ (Ambidextrous S and N)

The Doing Triad/Thinking Triad

The five with four-wing.
Core of sub-type: five with four-wing; INTP
Auxiliary/wing: four with three-wing; ENFP
Point of stress/disintegration: seven with six-wing; ESFP
Point of Integration/Neurosis: eight with nine-wing; ESFJ

 

[á´…eparted]

The correlation between enneagram and MBTI is a mild association. In essence, some type combinations are more likely than others. Even the ultra rare ones (such as an ENTJ 2w1) do happen.

 

[Duffy]

I actually think you have a ton of 3 in you. I can elaborate if you'd like, but since this is not a type thread, I'll leave it at that.

 

[HongDou]

eight with nine-wing; ESFJ

These two shouldn't ever be in the same category. I wouldn't put much credence in this.

I mean, I get what [MENTION=20829]Hard[/MENTION] is saying too. But I think it's always good to think about the statistical probability of your type combination. I identified as ESFJ 7w6 for a day or two...and while ESFJ 7w6 doesn't sound that far fetched on paper the odds were I was either a mistyped ESFJ 2w3 or a mistyped ENFP 7w6. Look where I am now.

I've posted these around this forum a bunch of times...but I guess I'll do it here too. I really like BlackCat's and Zara's charts:

I like how BlackCat's specifically goes into wings.

 

[Hawthorne]

I need to meet this ENTJ 2w1 because that sounds like a super interesting combination.

I'm trying to imagine it now but the only thing I'm getting is a heartache.

(why aren't my posts going through?)

I wrote something more elaborate but I lost it. Basically, concur with the posters above. Also, the auxiliary concept is interesting. Is it implying a shadow manifestion of the types?

 

[Kullervo]

Trying to make correlations ignores that Enneagram and MBTI are measuring different aspects of psychology. The Enneagram is specifically about your motivations and fears, or neuroses. MBTI by contrast tries to quantify general personality traits, so it would make much more sense to correlate MBTI types with those from, say, the OCEAN model (Big 5).

I am increasingly coming around to the view that (within reason), any MBTI/Enneagram combination is plausible. The charts illustrate that: "very rare" does not equal "impossible".

 

[small.wonder]

The the OP, I dont really find those correlations accurate. 4 = ENTP when it's a withdrawn, heart (feeling) type? That really makes no sense, espescially when most 4's correlate to INFx with lesser numbers correlating to ENFP or ISFx.

I personally do not believe that any MBTI/Enneagram crossover is possible, but I do believe that most are. There are certain combos that are just plain contradictory. Of the times I've talked to someone who claims a totally juxtaposed typing conclusion, they are far and away just A) misunderstanding one of the systems (I've usually seen this with Enneagram, and not taking health or instincts into account) or B) misunderstanding themselves. As aforementioned, I'm sure there are unusual exceptions, but I'm still waiting to see them.

 

[Kullervo]

The the OP, I dont really find those correlations accurate. 4 = ENTP when it's a withdrawn, heart (feeling) type? That really makes no sense, espescially when most 4's correlate to INFx with lesser numbers correlating to ENFP or ISFx.

No, they are clearly not. The charts [MENTION=17131]Chanaynay[/MENTION] posted have been used as a reference by forum members for a while now. However:

I personally do not believe that any MBTI/Enneagram crossover is possible, but I do believe that most are. There are certain combos that are just plain contradictory. Of the times I've talked to someone who claims a totally juxtaposed typing conclusion, they are far and away just A) misunderstanding one of the systems (I've usually seen this with Enneagram, and not taking health or instincts into account) or B) misunderstanding themselves. As aforementioned, I'm sure there are unusual exceptions, but I'm still waiting to see them.

Possible and probable are not the same.

Why not take this example as a case in point? Say a newbie comes along, and has self-typed as ENTP 4w5. The chances are that he has mistyped in one of the systems - most likely in Enneagram - because while he has read (the notoriously poor) type descriptions, he has not grasped the theory behind them. Also, there is a totem pole of type attractiveness on the forum, where INFJ and INTJ (depending on your sex) and E4 have bizarrely become the pinnacle of human evolution. I think a lot of new members type themselves inaccurately because they want to look "cool" or fit in.

But imagine another situation, where an experienced member - somebody who has researched the theory for a couple of years - typed themselves as ENTP 4w5. As odd as it may seem, would you not give them the benefit of the doubt? I actually don't think this combination is as contradictory as some others that people wear proudly here (INFJ 7w6 for example).

 

[miss fortune]

... and some things and combinations, which on the surface make little sense, make a lot of sense once you get the entire picture

 

[small.wonder]

Possible and probable are not the same.

Why not take this example as a case in point? Say a newbie comes along, and has self-typed as ENTP 4w5. The chances are that he has mistyped in one of the systems - most likely in Enneagram - because while he has read (the notoriously poor) type descriptions, he has not grasped the theory behind them. Also, there is a totem pole of type attractiveness on the forum, where INFJ and INTJ (depending on your sex) and E4 have bizarrely become the pinnacle of human evolution. I think a lot of new members type themselves inaccurately because they want to look "cool" or fit in.

But imagine another situation, where an experienced member - somebody who has researched the theory for a couple of years - typed themselves as ENTP 4w5. As odd as it may seem, would you not give them the benefit of the doubt? I actually don't think this combination is as contradictory as some others that people wear proudly here (INFJ 7w6 for example).

Totally, I'd dive into that (haha, as I do most Enneagram typing scenarios) mostly out of fascination, but also out of a desire to lend thoughts and see where they end up. Anytime I help with type conclusions IRL, or here, I always start by disclaiming: I know the Enneagram, and they know them, so lets compare notes and figure it out. I only value the Enneagram as a tool for growth and health-focus, which is useless (and potentially detrimental) without accurate typing-- and honestly, most people have not studied the system well.

I've experienced a lot of what you described about mob mentality typing, or self typing based on expectations or image, and it drives me nuts-- why? Because people are being deceived (whether by self or others), and that's not helpful to anyone.

Yeah, I love discovering anomalies, but only if they are.

 

[Kullervo]

Totally, I'd dive into that (haha, as I do most Enneagram typing scenarios) mostly out of fascination, but also out of a desire to lend thoughts and see where they end up. Anytime I help with type conclusions IRL, or here, I always start by disclaiming: I know the Enneagram, and they know them, so lets compare notes and figure it out. I only value the Enneagram as a tool for growth and health-focus, which is useless (and potentially detrimental) without accurate typing-- and honestly, most people have not studied the system well.

I can see how the Ennegram's focus on discovering and addressing neuroses could be really helpful to people who are suffering from mental illness. I also approve of its acknowledgement that as all people are not the same, successfully treating people requires adjusting your approach to the patient's personality. The system has an intimate nature which is sorely missing from MBTI.

I've experienced a lot of what you described about mob mentality typing, or self typing based on expectations or image, and it drives me nuts-- why? Because people are being deceived (whether by self or others), and that's not helpful to anyone.

I don't claim to be an expert on Enneatyping, only an expert on myself

Yeah, I love discovering anomalies, but only if they are.

Anomalies are always interesting. Rules are made to be tested, because that is the only way to know if they are truly resolute as people believe.

 

[Luv Deluxe]

But imagine another situation, where an experienced member - somebody who has researched the theory for a couple of years - typed themselves as ENTP 4w5. As odd as it may seem, would you not give them the benefit of the doubt? I actually don't think this combination is as contradictory as some others that people wear proudly here (INFJ 7w6 for example).

Maybe pride has nothing to do with it - maybe they wear it because it fits, and they've spent years trying to discern whether any other possible conclusion might be more appropriate.

Totally, I'd dive into that (haha, as I do most Enneagram typing scenarios) mostly out of fascination, but also out of a desire to lend thoughts and see where they end up. Anytime I help with type conclusions IRL, or here, I always start by disclaiming: I know the Enneagram, and they know them, so lets compare notes and figure it out. I only value the Enneagram as a tool for growth and health-focus, which is useless (and potentially detrimental) without accurate typing-- and honestly, most people have not studied the system well.

I've experienced a lot of what you described about mob mentality typing, or self typing based on expectations or image, and it drives me nuts-- why? Because people are being deceived (whether by self or others), and that's not helpful to anyone.

Yeah, I love discovering anomalies, but only if they are.

Obviously, I'm a subscriber to the anything-is-possible camp. I pretty much have to be, in order to make sense of my own typing. I've been studying the systems for a while now, arriving at the same conclusion every time. It's not that I doubt myself, exactly, but my tags tend to raise eyebrows and I find that I'm either not taken seriously or forced to explain myself fairly often. (I was never challenged on the INFJ thing way back when I had initially mistyped as an E1.)

I think of MBTI and Enneagram as separate systems whose types often overlap in shared behaviors (INFP 4s, ESTJ 3s, etc.), but the systems themselves concern different elements of personality. MBTI covers the cognitive functions in our psychology, the types of processors our brains are, how they function as hardware in a way. The Enneagram would then be analogous to the software that was installed in us; it's our operating system. You can have an ENTP processor running E4 software...and you'd probably have a very unique machine, but I would bet that someone, somewhere, has been functioning that way for years.

In addition, I think people can sometimes be led astray by caricatures of what the different types are supposed to look like. And, frankly, if INTP were touted as the elusive rare breed, we'd have plenty more people mistyping as INTP instead of INFJ. (I kind of wish that were the case.)

My logic makes sense to me, but I'm not closed off to new ideas, either. The whole point of MBTI and especially Enneagram is to gain a better understanding of the self, for personal growth and development. [MENTION=17697]small.wonder[/MENTION] - You really seem to have done a lot of Enneagram work, and, uh...if you're ever interested, I'd be happy to analyze my type with you. You can message me if you like.

 

[Duffy]

I don't think any mbti type can be any enneagram type. I also don't think the two systems are wholly separate.