Communication Difficulties Between Sensors and Intuitives

[magpie]

One of the most important things a person can do is learn to take responsibility for their own communication. If you want to be understood, the impetus is on you to communicate in a way that's understandable to those around you rather than expecting them to bend over backwards to understand you.

The more complex an idea or "intuition," the harder it is to express with words. There are a lot of things I struggle to wholly explain with language because the language ends up being a reductive element that can't translate the idea without changing and diminishing it. Part of communication, though, is finding a way to express those things as best as possible in order to be able to consciously know why you think what you do and back it up or explain it in discussion with others. This goes for all people, sensors and intuitives alike. Also, having to work through the idea in this way helps it move beyond the part of your brain that just "knows" (your soul/subconscious) and into the more conscious parts of your brain that can help create analyses and intellectual understandings.

Ultimately communication about abstractions is possible on a direct soul to soul level where you just know or get what the other person means through attunement to their "wavelength." But that's not always possible and it's lazy to expect that, since that entitlement can make you never work to develop yourself. It also makes me roll my eyes when people (usually Ni users) bring up a concept, I ask them questions about it to confirm/challenge their point of view, and they can't explain themselves at all. It's not actually because the concept is too abstract to be expressed with words. It's just intellectual laziness with an inability to explore your own psyche on the side. Usually in this example what's being talked about by the Ni user isn't even that complex or abstract at all, and it's not impressive when that's claimed as an excuse. It just seems like conceit.

 

[entropie]

One of the most important things a person can do is learn to take responsibility for their own communication. If you want to be understood, the impetus is on you to communicate in a way that's understandable to those around you rather than expecting them to bend over backwards to understand you.

But I dont want to be understood

 

[Dreamer]

For one thing you dont know me very well. How much people do you deal with that are like you think? I find Ne is highly attuned do to frequency creating a common. I do ask my GF every once in awhile. Are you looking at me or some stereotype built up. Intuiting instead of seeing what in front of you.

Because you dont just ask "why whats up", thats where miscommunication starts. Assumptions...your trying to become better at "assuming"...i would have to know you better. Shooting in the dark.

I would say we all make assumptions about others to a degree. It's just shorthand for navigating the social spheres. I do enjoy getting deeper into people I meet though for sure, but definitely, there is a level of assumption at play here. Even when I do ask what the other person intends or means, doesn't solve the answer for me at times. What I'm "intuiting" I'm not sure. I feel like there is some hidden blip in the system where I seem to fall short in understanding others and vice versa.

Actually, though I can't say I have found the secret in communicating my ideas clearly to others, I have found work-arounds. For example, all this thinking out loud and scattered thought you or others may see of me on the forum in my posts, is a strategy I've developed over the years as a way for others to visually see what I'm thinking, almost as I'm thinking it. I feel this has helped others follow my trajectory fairly well. Also, (I can remember the exact time I started doing this too lol) I'll give people disclaimers before I actually make my statement. In the past I'd used to just blurt out thoughts or statements but they'd often be taken the wrong way. These days, I'll give all this intent of mine, before I deliver my words, and that seems to also prove fairly effective for me.

There are definitely times where I'm still not clear enough or there are still miscommunications, but as I've mentioned above, I may not have discovered a translation between Intuitive and Sensor language, that'd be awesome! I feel I have at least come up with some "coping mechanisms" (haha as if this is all some disease of mine ) to mitigate frustrations between me and other people.

 

[Dreamer]

feelers cause me more communication problems than intuitives do by far

Is it the directness of your words that leaves you at odds with feelers? Direct words used to bother me but eh, I'd say some feelers can just be too sensitive at times or could learn to give people the benefit of the doubt more often. Worked for me in not being butt hurt like all the time. I had to develop this for my own sanity. I was like some bruised banana growing up. It took one day to realize, you know what, this show ain't workin for me, I need to change something here.

 

[OrangeAppled]

While I do love fantasy novels... my favorite TV shows tend to be the "slice of life" genre. I also have found in the past few years that I really like autobiographies and memoirs. I have also found that, despite my love of fantasy novels, there has to be some realistic aspect to it for me to enjoy it... if it's too "out there" it becomes unrelatable. I like to know what's going on, and it's easier for me to know what's going on if I've experienced something similar or it's some sort of regular occurrence.

There is this one anime that gets amazing reviews... it's got a deep touching story, but I just can't watch it, because it makes no sense to me. The way the story is told is too far off the deep end for me to comprehend. I like when stories make you think and have philosophical aspects to them, but this particular medium was far too overdone, to the point that I didn't even know what was going on, I was constantly confused, and it ruined the enjoyment aspect for me.

My favorite stories tend to be the slice of life dramas--a really touching or heartbreaking story that hits you right in the feels because it's so relatable.

I meant to respond to this, to address why I asked that question.

A follow-up question is what makes you score as an N type?
What are the questions you answer "yes" to?

I admit I speculated that some S types test as N because of too much association with N preference and entertainment tastes in imaginary things. Yet, I do notice much of this entertainment has rather straight-forward plot and character development.

I am personally not into fantasy genre or sci-fi. However these are very popular and definitely among people who don't have an N preference. The difference is when it crosses the line from playful imagination to something meaningful, and that's the point where I might become interested.

I quite like symbolism and allegorical type of stories, for instance. Something supernatural just cuz it's cool doesn't interest me much, unless it's absurd in a humorous way.

My ESFP sister gets absolutely outraged at hypotheticals though. Because it has not happened to anyone in particular and wont happen to anyone exactly as discussed, since it's all just a concept, to her it is not real and therefore invalid. She refuses to make a connection between a concept it illustrates and real life patterns. I would have to use a specific, real life example, which I often find invalid, for reasons stated below.

I can feel similarly annoyed with true stories and anecdotes. Because they contain so many variables and are so specific and context dependent, they may say little about a greater truth about reality. Often I see people so caught up in a particular detail in a story that they miss the bigger theme. When people relate things in a linear, play by play manner with a lot of details, I often feel very annoyed, wanting them to get to the point. In real life anecdotes, I am quick to note variables which suggest alternative meanings, expanding what seems a single obvious conclusion into many possible interpretations. This often renders real life accounts not precise enough to me because they are paradoxically too specific.

When I talk with my ISFJ mom, unlike my sister, she will hear me out, but then latch onto an irrelevant detail to make some point to "win" (because she takes my communication style as an argument, when it is not), and it has nothing to do with the idea I am trying to convey. For instance, if we had this discussion, she'd likely latch onto my comment about real life stories and tell me I am a snob who doesn't show enough personal interest in people. She'd be like, "You should learn to appreciate what others like and not think your tastes are superior." I would be left feeling criticized for a feeling I don't have and totally misunderstood.

If I do try to use a real life situation as an illustration, then I have people trying to discuss the real situation and not the point it is illustrating. But too often I cannot think of a real life situation that is not too specific, and I definitely won't recall the countless things that have built up this concept over time in my mind.

I don't remember details*, I just see common themes building up patterns, and a general concept emerges, and then this gives rise to possibilities. But I don't think it through or consciously analyze to reach a conclusion - I just become aware of it. I can see how these possibilities could seem out there to some people, but then these same people sometimes compliment on my creativity ask how I come up with stuff..soooo....

When trying to communicate any of this (which I will want to do at some point, given how much it preoccupies me), I find myself hard pressed to give any real world data to support the concept. It is all abstract. Metaphor actually goes a long way, and I usually find SFs more amenable to it than hypothetical stuff because the emotional aspects may resonate. Conversely, STs seem less annoyed by the hypothetical given it strikes them as reasonable.

* For example, I had an experience talking to a self-typed ESTP online and the conversation perfectly illustrates this, yet, I don't remember many details of the actual conversation. Right now, I only remember how it demonstrated this point. In discussing a concept, the person focused on details in an illustrative anecdote and that became the discussion (which went pleasantly otherwise). What stands out in my mind is how we interacted and what that showed about us as people and how it related to human interaction in general, etc. I hardly recall any facts, save that he identified as ESTP.

 

[Dreamer]

This thread has got me thinking, and I think will elaborate on some points that were made here.

Personally, I think there is a general air that favors intuitives within the mbti community, whether people want to admit it or not. There is a different way people look at you when you are a certain type, especially if you are either a sensor or an intuitive. I don’t see myself as someone who is lesser because supposedly my type insinuates that I don’t have abstract interests or is unable to intellectually understand abstractions in general. I don't consider myself this way at all. I think balance is necessary and should be the key that one should strive for, regardless of one’s type. Generalities that put anyone in a box, whether it’s sensors, intuitives, feelers, thinkers, etc. are usually misrepresented and overall pertains to black and white thinking. There is more to a person besides their type, as everyone is an individual with different interests and different ways of looking at things. Communication is all about making it apparent that what is being addressed by one person is coherent to the other. I can easily misunderstand someone who has knowledge about a particular topic that I have no idea or interest in at all, and they could be a completely different type than me or even my own type. I suppose there are certain wavelengths that people lie on in the cognitive function spectrum, and maybe this has to do with miscommunications with certain types as well. But I don't think it's just sensors or just intuitives that have trouble understanding each other. Perhaps there is some other underlying issue that isn't being addressed.

There truly are hundreds of ways people can misunderstand one another and certainly, the divide, if any, between Sensors and Intuitives is by no means the only measure here. I feel I am fairly adept at reading people and gauging whether something may need more explanation on my part, before they ask for further detail, but there are still plenty of times where I later find that what I said or what they said, was taken a completely different way. For me, I feel my issue is between the Sensor Intuitive divide as my interpersonal struggles seem to stem from complete opposite viewpoints on the same subject, on the same words, just seen vastly different from both parties. What I describe, may not in fact be an issue between Sensor and Intuitive types, but insofar as I know of the personality types and functions, what I run into most often, is what I personally equate to the divide between the types.

I feel though, that similar threads could easily be started around the same approach, between different dichotomies such as Feelers and Thinkers, Introverts and Extroverts, Se vs Si, etc. I would be curious though, if between all these various threads, between differing dichotomies, would we be able to find any trends or patterns take form? Would there be any common links? Or would the communication issues be limited to those narrow frames of reference?

Also, I am fully aware of the "privileged unicorn intuitive" slant that is unfortunately around us, which is why I threw out that disclaimer in the very first sentence that this is not some Intuitive superiority thread I couldn't stand to see any comments following, saying this or that about me to get off my pedestal or some trolls coming in saying Intuitives are the best. I was also aware that starting this particular thread could have been instantly seen as an Intuitive vs Sensor thread because of the title...Yuck! No, there is no bias on my end against or for any type, no thank you. But I am glad you brought that up too, just in case that suspicion may have been floating in the air around this thread. I won't allow any of that behavior to occur here. It limits thought, and limits discussion.

 

[Dreamer]

I meant to respond to this, to address why I asked that question.

A follow-up question is what makes you score as an N type?
What are the questions you answer "yes" to?

I admit I speculated that some S types test as N because of too much association with N preference and entertainment tastes in imaginary things. Yet, I do notice much of this entertainment has rather straight-forward plot and character development.

I am personally not into fantasy genre or sci-fi. However these are very popular and definitely among people who don't have an N preference. The difference is when it crosses the line from playful imagination to something meaningful, and that's the point where I might become interested.

I quite like symbolism and allegorical type of stories, for instance. Something supernatural just cuz it's cool doesn't interest me much, unless it's absurd in a humorous way.

My ESFP sister gets absolutely outraged at hypotheticals though. Because it has not happened to anyone in particular and wont happen to anyone exactly as discussed, since it's all just a concept, to her it is not real and therefore invalid. She refuses to make a connection between a concept it illustrates and real life patterns. I would have to use a specific, real life example, which I often find invalid, for reasons stated below.

I can feel similarly annoyed with true stories and anecdotes. Because they contain so many variables and are so specific and context dependent, they may say little about a greater truth about reality. Often I see people so caught up in a particular detail in a story that they miss the bigger theme. When people relate things in a linear, play by play manner with a lot of details, I often feel very annoyed, wanting them to get to the point. In real life anecdotes, I am quick to note variables which suggest alternative meanings, expanding what seems a single obvious conclusion into many possible interpretations. This often renders real life accounts not precise enough to me because they are paradoxically too specific.

When I talk with my ISFJ mom, unlike my sister, she will hear me out, but then latch onto an irrelevant detail to make some point to "win" (because she takes my communication style as an argument, when it is not), and it has nothing to do with the idea I am trying to convey. For instance, if we had this discussion, she'd likely latch onto my comment about real life stories and tell me I am a snob who doesn't show enough personal interest in people. She'd be like, "You should learn to appreciate what others like and not think your tastes are superior." I would be left feeling criticized for a feeling I don't have and totally misunderstood.

If I do try to use a real life situation as an illustration, then I have people trying to discuss the real situation and not the point it is illustrating. But too often I cannot think of a real life situation that is not too specific, and I definitely won't recall the countless things that have built up this concept over time in my mind.

I don't remember details*, I just see common themes building up patterns, and a general concept emerges, and then this gives rise to possibilities. But I don't think it through or consciously analyze to reach a conclusion - I just become aware of it. I can see how these possibilities could seem out there to some people, but then these same people sometimes compliment on my creativity ask how I come up with stuff..soooo....

When trying to communicate any of this (which I will want to do at some point, given how much it preoccupies me), I find myself hard pressed to give any real world data to support the concept. It is all abstract. Metaphor actually goes a long way, and I usuall find SFs more amenable to it than hypothetical stuff because the emotional aspects may resonate. Conversely, STs seem less annoyed by the hypothetical given it strikes them as reasonable.

* For example, I had an experience talking to a self-typed ESTP online and the conversation perfectly illustrates this, yet, I don't remember many details of the actual conversation. Right now, I only remember how it demonstrated this point. In discussing a concept, the person focused on details in an illustrative anecdote and that became the discussion (which went pleasantly otherwise). What stands out in my mind is how we interacted and what that showed about us as people and how it related to human interaction in general, etc. I hardly recall any facts, save that he identified as ESTP.

I just want to say, Orange, I honest to goodness, believe this post here, is precisely the "translation" this thread needed in helping to find the sources to miscommunication between Sensor types and Intuitive types. Your thought process is one I very much share as well, and is helpful for this thread because I feel you also clearly outline where the difference lies between simple interests and where the "Intuition" comes into play. I too, find little interest in the fantastic and surface level bizarre or imaginations, there has to be a greater intent involved for those things to latch on for me. And like you... ...ok (I'm doing "big picture" stuff right now) I can't recall specific things about your post at this moment so I can't itemize the receipt but I do know that while reading through, everything you talked about was so on point and akin to my perspective. I could reread your post to complete my reply but then I'd be getting lost in the details

 

[Dreamer]

I meant to respond to this, to address why I asked that question.

A follow-up question is what makes you score as an N type?

Sorry Orange, JUST remembered one of the line items as I posted my previous reply, but your very first line is I feel, one main difference and source of miscommunication between Sensors and Intuitives...I think. I ask questions like this or make comments like this all the time. Where, you have an intent behind the comment, but what you say, doesn't particularly reveal that intent, in a face value sort of way. I don't do this to deceive, not at all, but when you started off your post with this comment, I instantly thought of the post [MENTION=12103]Poki[/MENTION] made of his dialogue with his INTJ dad, and how I speak this way as well. Meaning, I ask questions, not to receive answers directly tied to that question, but for answers to the underlying meaning attached to those words.

 

[Dreamer]

Ahh!! Loves it, I feel like I get it. I GET the communication dynamic between Intuitives, I get it. I can literally see it in my head of why it all makes sense to me. How to verbalize that...hard to do. Seeing it now, I can at least hypothesize how Sensors must think and use words. For whatever reason, I feel like things just "clicked" for me just now.

I know I could actually translate what I'm visualizing in my head right now fairly easily, but eh, I think I'd like to just let it sit a little bit and let the thoughts solidify some first.

 

[Dreamer]

OK, you lost me here. I don't know what you mean by "feeling a function". We use our functions, or more precisely, the idea of a function just describes how we approach the cognitive processes. I suspect everything goes through Te for me when I communicate, since that is my highest extraverted function. It also makes more digestible packets than the other functions would if left to their own devices, which of course they never would be, since all the functions work together.

Alright, I'll try this, I see a difference between top layer functions, and functions beneath the surface. Not strictly limiting "top layer" to extroverted functions, but that introverted functions are outward through expression more so than by words, since they are introverted. For example, I might say that "feeling a function" or living and breathing it, outwardly translates to behaviors or levels of communication that outwardly show it like Fi, through a person's poetry, artwork, etc. Versus say, someone communicating that Fi internal spirit through a Te filter function, or any other extroverted filter function. So my last question in how it feels to communicate with me versus other TJs looks at this dynamic through this lens. Do you find it easier to communicate with people that live and breathe a function, or with people that use that same function as a filter for some other function?

I am visualizing this dynamic so vividly right now...do my words make sense? I'm frustrating myself.

 

[BlackCat]

For one thing you dont know me very well. How much people do you deal with that are like you think? I find Ne is highly attuned do to frequency creating a common. I do ask my GF every once in awhile. Are you looking at me or some stereotype built up. Intuiting instead of seeing what in front of you.

Because you dont just ask "why whats up", thats where miscommunication starts. Assumptions...your trying to become better at "assuming"...i would have to know you better. Shooting in the dark.

Hey look, this is why I broke up with my ENFP ex! No sustainable relationship will come from someone treating you like an idea in their head, rather than an actual person.

 

[BlackCat]

To answer the OP, I have more difficulties communicating with people who are less educated or intelligent rather than someone who is an N type. I have an ENTP best friend as well as an ISFJ best friend, and I have zero issues when I interact with them. As others have said if someone is an extreme N with no balance I will have issues with them, simply because it comes off like they aren't listening to what I'm saying, but to their assumptions about what I'm saying.

Now that I think about it the only type that I consistently have communication issues with is ENFPs. For the reason [MENTION=12103]Poki[/MENTION] pointed out in my post above. It's a consistent thing that happens. I don't have time to constantly clarify what I'm saying, when I say exactly what I mean all the time. They assume that there is more to literally everything and it's maddening.

Social skills and communication skills are separate from type. One has to learn more about themselves and how to relate to others to have healthy relationships, and I think this stems from that.

 

[Hiraeth]

There truly are hundreds of ways people can misunderstand one another and certainly, the divide, if any, between Sensors and Intuitives is by no means the only measure here. I feel I am fairly adept at reading people and gauging whether something may need more explanation on my part, before they ask for further detail, but there are still plenty of times where I later find that what I said or what they said, was taken a completely different way. For me, I feel my issue is between the Sensor Intuitive divide as my interpersonal struggles seem to stem from complete opposite viewpoints on the same subject, on the same words, just seen vastly different from both parties. What I describe, may not in fact be an issue between Sensor and Intuitive types, but insofar as I know of the personality types and functions, what I run into most often, is what I personally equate to the divide between the types.

I agree that it's natural to make assumptions about generalities we don’t inherently identify with, as I also have complained many times before about not understanding extreme extroverts due to being at the lower end of the introverted feeler spectrum myself. I think it would make sense that people in the middle could identify with both sides of the spectrum, but I get that there are people who naturally swing all the way towards the opposite end, so I guess I can see how there could be some communication issues, regardless. Although, I think at times people who are more in the middle of certain functions are easily clustered with the whole of their group and counted with that stereotype as well. But I understand that it’s from your own general observation, and there's nothing wrong with that.

I feel though, that similar threads could easily be started around the same approach, between different dichotomies such as Feelers and Thinkers, Introverts and Extroverts, Se vs Si, etc. I would be curious though, if between all these various threads, between differing dichotomies, would we be able to find any trends or patterns take form? Would there be any common links? Or would the communication issues be limited to those narrow frames of reference?

I like that idea. It would be interesting to see if there is a correlation between the types and their least understood functions or preferences.

Also, I am fully aware of the "privileged unicorn intuitive" slant that is unfortunately around us, which is why I threw out that disclaimer in the very first sentence that this is not some Intuitive superiority thread I couldn't stand to see any comments following, saying this or that about me to get off my pedestal or some trolls coming in saying Intuitives are the best. I was also aware that starting this particular thread could have been instantly seen as an Intuitive vs Sensor thread because of the title...Yuck! No, there is no bias on my end against or for any type, no thank you. But I am glad you brought that up too, just in case that suspicion may have been floating in the air around this thread. I won't allow any of that behavior to occur here. It limits thought, and limits discussion.

Oh yes, I saw that disclaimer before. I just wanted to point out from my own observation because it is something I’ve noticed often and is still a prevalent issue with certain people. I know there are many on here, including you, who see through those biases. However, sometimes I can’t help but think there are already some assumptions being made based on my type, so there are times I feel like I have to keep proving myself in order to show that I don’t necessarily adhere to certain stereotypes. And I understand the same could be said for any other type, too.

 

[Poki]

Alright, I'll try this, I see a difference between top layer functions, and functions beneath the surface. Not strictly limiting "top layer" to extroverted functions, but that introverted functions are outward through expression more so than by words, since they are introverted. For example, I might say that "feeling a function" or living and breathing it, outwardly translates to behaviors or levels of communication that outwardly show it like Fi, through a person's poetry, artwork, etc. Versus say, someone communicating that Fi internal spirit through a Te filter function, or any other extroverted filter function. So my last question in how it feels to communicate with me versus other TJs looks at this dynamic through this lens. Do you find it easier to communicate with people that live and breathe a function, or with people that use that same function as a filter for some other function? I am visualizing this dynamic so vividly right now...do my words make sense? I'm frustrating myself.

My biggest communication struggle with IJs are assumptions. Unlike EJs i dont have this need to correct. With IJ they feel or thing and you can tell good or bad by expression. They dont always continue convo though as an EJ would. Now with that being said i dont have issues with IJs all that much because i understand them so i can manage things externally with miscommunication at a good level. Its really only an issue if overtime things spiral for one or the other downhill.

Dom Ne always sidesteps, etc. As a means of secondary interaction. Whether it be I want new, i want to avoid, i have nothing, etc. Its a transition. As opposed to switching to internal Fi its a switch to stay extroverted and bounce. It keeps things from getting deeper. Not all are stuck in this mode. But its how they deal with the external world. It keeps them from really knowing how or why they really feel. Similiar can be said for say ESTp and what they really think by always changing the world through Se.

 

[Poki]

Ne bounces off clouds, Ni is deep entrenched in clouds.
Se bounces off ground, Si is deep entrenched in the ground.

Hard for deep entrenched to follow bouncing off clouds.

Hard for deep entrenched to follow bouncing on ground.

Deep entrenched in ground will find similiar path deep entrenched in clouds and will end up in same places without having to say where they are going. Bouncing will follow each other without as much care about a solid path.

This requires those functions in different places or they clash trying to accomplish the same role differently.

Now clouds have something in common, the clouds...but they miss the ground and cant stabalize. Grounds have something in common, bu they cant float.

 

[Mechnick]

There is no commy difficulties. The Sensors are idiots. Except ISTJs. Wait, introverts! Losers.

When you slip from Ryan Gosling's ass everyday like me you know the essence of not being a loser.

 

[ceecee]

There is no commy difficulties. The Sensors are idiots. Except ISTJs. Wait, introverts! Losers.

When you slip from Ryan Gosling ass everyday you know the essence of not being a loser.

Did you complete high school/secondary school? After reading several of your posts, I have concluded that you may not have much education. If so, we should be taking that into account when reading and answering what you write.

 

[Dreamer]

Ne bounces off clouds, Ni is deep entrenched in clouds.
Se bounces off ground, Si is deep entrenched in the ground.

Hard for deep entrenched to follow bouncing off clouds.

Hard for deep entrenched to follow bouncing on ground.

Deep entrenched in ground will find similiar path deep entrenched in clouds and will end up in same places without having to say where they are going. Bouncing will follow each other without as much care about a solid path.

This requires those functions in different places or they clash trying to accomplish the same role differently.

Now clouds have something in common, the clouds...but they miss the ground and cant stabalize. Grounds have something in common, bu they cant float.

I really don't have much to add to this but just like your post. I think you describe the dynamics well. I can definitely relate to it too as with Ni doms/auxs, there is definitely this common language they speak, but I don't align with their slow, lumbering pace in conversations
With Se though, I totally relate to their "short attention span" approach to things and share that sense of excitement for the new and novel. However, they speak a different language.
Between the two groups INJs and ESPs, I see the dynamic between myself and these two groups of people as those that speak my language, and those that speak my energy. Generally then, I'm looking at, where to expend my resources with these four types, in mental energy with the ESP, or physical energy with the INJ?

 

[ceecee]

And, what makes you think that way.

The fact that this sentence should end with a question mark, not a period.

 

[Jaguar]

When you slip from Ryan Gosling ass everyday you know the essence of not being a loser.

Ryan Gosling's ass?