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[INTJ] Common INTJ Issues

Poki

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Think they know the answers.

ENTJ...you are gonna do this
INTJ... The problems with kids today is that they are given choices. We used to just be told what to do and we had to do it.

E is much more forceful then I...both are pretty similiar

Actually just over heard this conversation today in regard to kids figuring out what they want to do in life.
 

chubber

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Think they know the answers.

ENTJ...you are gonna do this
INTJ... The problems with kids today is that they are given choices. We used to just be told what to do and we had to do it.

E is much more forceful then I...both are pretty similiar

Actually just over heard this conversation today in regard to kids figuring out what they want to do in life.

I contradict myself, and I'm sensitive towards others who contradicts themselves. Pointing to the fact that I am sensitive about my own flaws. Like most people who criticise others what they don't like about themselves.

But yes, you're right.
 

Poki

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I contradict myself, and I'm sensitive towards others who contradicts themselves. Pointing to the fact that I am sensitive about my own flaws. Like most people who criticise others what they don't like about themselves.

But yes, you're right.

I actually find this mannerisms as a way to deal with the world when frustrated for INTJ types. Its typical in so far as the amount of time they sit frustrated. My dad is a much older INTJ who actually does alot of introspection, with me because i dont push him further into frustration he is better able to deal with it, back out of it, and move forward healthily. Sometimes flat out speaking his frustration or detouring to find another answer that fits better.

In the conversation i referred to above the INTJ was speaking with an ENFP and she had responded by giving him solutions and just reinforcing that things are different now days. He chuckled, laughed, in a way INTJs do when they see reality and thanked her and moved on. ENTJs have to be handled slightly different though. Almost fed thoughts instead of explanations like ENFP did.
 

Tilt

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I contradict myself, and I'm sensitive towards others who contradicts themselves. Pointing to the fact that I am sensitive about my own flaws. Like most people who criticise others what they don't like about themselves.

But yes, you're right.

What is the best way for others to respond to the contradiction? I struggle with being blunt and being mindful of the sore spots at the same time.

I can Ni the crap out of a situation in a fairly neutral manner and can usually be supportive but I hold back as not to be overbearing and condescending.

*I am curious, because I am best friends with one and I want be on good terms with one at my job.
 

chubber

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What is the best way for others to respond to the contradiction? I struggle with being blunt and being mindful of the sore spots at the same time.

I can Ni the crap out of a situation in a fairly neutral manner and can usually be supportive but I hold back as not to be overbearing and condescending.

*I am curious, because I am best friends with one and I want be on good terms with one at my job.

The simple answer is through your (INTJ's) intuition, playing with ideas, is what gets one back to a happy state. I like to talk about anything. But when it comes to myself, I hardly understand myself, so in doing so, it is difficult to understand others. And now at the age of 37, I can see, that I want support, and never knew what that was, because I am always keeping to myself. And I think I do it that way, because of how I grew up, I never felt my ideas were embraced or supported, because it always came from a place of fear, instead of just emotional support. I'm struggling with it myself, but I am now beginning to recognise the importance of it, the motivation that it brings.

Hope that makes any sense.
 

Tilt

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The simple answer is through your (INTJ's) intuition, playing with ideas, is what gets one back to a happy state. I like to talk about anything. But when it comes to myself, I hardly understand myself, so in doing so, it is difficult to understand others. And now at the age of 37, I can see, that I want support, and never knew what that was, because I am always keeping to myself. And I think I do it that way, because of how I grew up, I never felt my ideas were embraced or supported, because it always came from a place of fear, instead of just emotional support. I'm struggling with it myself, but I am now beginning to recognise the importance of it, the motivation that it brings.

Hope that makes any sense.

Thanks, that was quite insightful. You sound A LOT like my best friend. The weird thing is that he does understand people but he doubts it most of the time and stalls and stays in situations much longer than he probably should. TOTAL 9w1.

On the plus side, I do enjoy the Ni-Te because I can tell him pretty much anything without many value judgements thrown my way. Things are framed in "degrees of efficiency and annoyance" rather than good and bad.
 
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when it comes to myself, I hardly understand myself
This is fascinating to me. I hope I'm not derailing here. INTJs are intelligent and analytical and introverted. If you spend a lot of time alone how do you not understand yourself to a fair degree? Please don't be offended by this I'm not judging, I'm trying to grasp it. Is it because you spend so much time analyzing and compiling data about external information that you overlook your internal processes? Or is it because understanding yourself means dealing with and understanding emotions? Or both?
 

anticlimatic

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I think the biggest problems INTJs have, and why most people dislike them and portray them often as storybook villains, is their stubborn Ni insistence on making shallow surface level incorrect perceptions about pretty much everything, and then using that thin and inaccurate assessment to try to move everybody else's world with it with zero respect to their perspectives or even objective logic.

If they spent half as much time confirming and reconfirming their Ni assumptions with empirical data as they do working on sounding smart for the sake of impressing/intimidating others into doing their bidding, they'd get a lot farther in life.
 

chubber

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Thanks, that was quite insightful. You sound A LOT like my best friend. The weird thing is that he does understand people but he doubts it most of the time and stalls and stays in situations much longer than he probably should. TOTAL 9w1.

On the plus side, I do enjoy the Ni-Te because I can tell him pretty much anything without many value judgements thrown my way. Things are framed in "degrees of efficiency and annoyance" rather than good and bad.

I would say something similar, I would always ask, which option do you want and what are you willing to put up with.
 

Coriolis

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ENTJ...you are gonna do this
INTJ... The problems with kids today is that they are given choices. We used to just be told what to do and we had to do it.
An INTJ is actually much more likely to give a kid choices than many other types. They want kids to learn to be reasoning, responsible, independent adults, and see learning by failure (when not seriously harmful) as a big part of that. So, if ENTJ says "just do this", INTJ will lay out options, or get the kid to lay out options, and have them talk through the pros and cons of each.
 

Dreamer

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I think the biggest problems INTJs have, and why most people dislike them and portray them often as storybook villains, is their stubborn Ni insistence on making shallow surface level incorrect perceptions about pretty much everything, and then using that thin and inaccurate assessment to try to move everybody else's world with it with zero respect to their perspectives or even objective logic. If they spent half as much time confirming and reconfirming their Ni assumptions with empirical data as they do working on sounding smart for the sake of impressing/intimidating others into doing their bidding, they'd get a lot farther in life.

I have found this to be a common strain in either of the INJs, really. I would tie that to their Ni/Se rather than fault Ni alone. Though, it's IF they haven't broken free of the stubbornness that seems to come more from immaturity, inexperience, insecurity, or a blend of them all, when you come across those more annoying habits you speak of.

I do catch myself in believing such perspective as somehow flawed on occasion, in observing this approach as superficial, and while technically, that is a fair assessment as they are utilizing Se to gather their data, I am also unfairly applying a moral judgement in these times as seeing my way as the "correct" way. In reality though, my depth, my understanding of others still only comes from what I know of myself, and that also falls under the category of "superficial", if from a different definition.

I suppose, what it boils down to, is finding a way within your own system, within your own framework of mind, to reach out and to better understand the world around you, regardless of type. There will always be miscommunication between varying types of how the other types go about doing this, but we can at least appreciate when people of other types are making such strides towards this new understanding. Recognizing when that occurs however, is the difficulty.
 

chubber

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This is fascinating to me. I hope I'm not derailing here. INTJs are intelligent and analytical and introverted. If you spend a lot of time alone how do you not understand yourself to a fair degree? Please don't be offended by this I'm not judging, I'm trying to grasp it. Is it because you spend so much time analyzing and compiling data about external information that you overlook your internal processes? Or is it because understanding yourself means dealing with and understanding emotions? Or both?

Well, I'm observing the external world, while then also making connections between ideas. And I spend most of my time there, trying to understand the world, but I just want to understand everything, and I think often overlook myself.

As Ni is explained:

[..]

However, as an introverted intuitive you stop at perception; perception is your principal activity. The problem arises when you try to relate yourself to your vision; the symbolism is unadapted to the actual present-day reality. You remain unintelligible and your language is too subjective for anyone to understand you. Your argument may lack convincing reason. Your voice is like the 'voice of one crying in the wilderness'.

As a result, you may feel frustrated and become impulsive and unrestrained either by exhibiting psychosomatic symptoms or by obsessing about your ties with other objects or people.

Since your main activity is directed within, nothing is outwardly visible but reserve, secretiveness, lack of sympathy, or uncertainty, and an apparently groundless perplexity. When anything does come to the surface, is received with prejudice. Accordingly you are mostly underestimated, or at least misunderstood. To the same degree as you fail to understand yourself you are also powerless to understand why you are so constantly undervalued by public opinion.

You may not see that your outward-going expression is enchanted by the abundance of subjective events. What happens there is so captivating, and of such inexhaustible attraction, that you may not appreciate the fact that your way of communicating it does not portray your experience as it comes to you. People may lose patience with your fragmented communication, lack of conviction and warmth of expression. In fact you may show quite a brusque, repelling demeanour towards the outer world, although you are quite unaware, and have not the least intention of showing it.

All of this happens because is hard for you to translate your inner experience into intelligible language. Life may present itself with overwhelming external difficulties, which have a very sobering effect on your inner world and occasionally bring to light a more human expression. Viewed from a higher standpoint, you are the living evidence to the fact that this world is not purely external but also it exists within. Your life teaches more than your words.
 
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Well, I'm observing the external world, while then also making connections between ideas. And I spend most of my time there, trying to understand the world, but I just want to understand everything, and I think often overlook myself.

As Ni is explained:

I appreciate that. I'm still learning the ropes. I often find real examples help me absorb information. Thank you.
 

citizen cane

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A lot of issues that INTJs have relate to Ni taking an overly dominant role in their personality. Some examples of this:

Don't listen to other perspectives - At times, the INTJ can quickly dismiss things that others might say and have a tendency to come across like they think they are always right. Even if they do listen, they may not come across like they are. The explanation for much of this is that the INTJ can use Te to cut off new information rather than the more productive use of Te, which is to judge their insights against the external world.

Overly critical - INTJs are prone to finding fault in things and situations to an excessive degree. They can tend to blame others for things that go wrong or apply judgement towards others rather than themselves.

Don't know know how they come across to others - INTJs, especially when young can be pretty oblivious as to how they come across to other people.

Unrealistic expectations - INTJs can have excessive expectations of others as well as themselves. Nobody measures up.

Hard time communicating - They can have difficulty communicating what is in their mind to others. Sometimes, they are vague and cannot easily express the reasons for the way they thing.

Occasional indecision - Though this is not usually a problem, at times the INTJ can be overwhelmed by all of the different pieces of information, scenarios and sides of an issue making it difficult to reach a decision.


Edit: So, a lot of this is standard INTJ profile stuff. Do you agree with this? Do you see other issues? The thread is targeted at both INTJs and non-INTJs to comment on.

I'm sure the non-INTJs should have plenty to say.

Couldn't this be fairly true of ISTJs as well? I would think these would all be common issues for either.
 

Coriolis

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This is fascinating to me. I hope I'm not derailing here. INTJs are intelligent and analytical and introverted. If you spend a lot of time alone how do you not understand yourself to a fair degree? Please don't be offended by this I'm not judging, I'm trying to grasp it. Is it because you spend so much time analyzing and compiling data about external information that you overlook your internal processes? Or is it because understanding yourself means dealing with and understanding emotions? Or both?
A bit of both, plus other things. I think there are aspects of ourselves that we understand rather well - our thought processes, for instance, because thinking is our preference and is also externally directed so we have more opportunities to validate it with external data. Yes, we tend not to focus on emotions other than to note their presence and what they signify (early warning signal). I know I will examine my thought processes deliberately, especially if I find something isn't working. I sometimes also examine my values, if I sense a contradiction, or cannot figure out how something measures up. We have our blind spots, as does everyone, which I'm sure is related to this - which parts of ourselves we are more comfortable and experienced in examining, and which we tend to ignore.
 
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A bit of both, plus other things. I think there are aspects of ourselves that we understand rather well - our thought processes, for instance, because thinking is our preference and is also externally directed so we have more opportunities to validate it with external data. Yes, we tend not to focus on emotions other than to note their presence and what they signify (early warning signal). I know I will examine my thought processes deliberately, especially if I find something isn't working. I sometimes also examine my values, if I sense a contradiction, or cannot figure out how something measures up. We have our blind spots, as does everyone, which I'm sure is related to this - which parts of ourselves we are more comfortable and experienced in examining, and which we tend to ignore.

All this insightful information is very helpful. I've described you all as enigmatic before. I find the personal descriptions tend to help me understand even more than the text book definitions. However both are valuable. Thank you.
 

Coriolis

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All this insightful information is very helpful. I've described you all as enigmatic before. I find the personal descriptions tend to help me understand even more than the text book definitions. However both are valuable. Thank you.
Perhaps I should not have replied then. Far be it for me to spoil the mystery.
 

anticlimatic

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This reminds me of INTJ style problem solving:

5989ae12ef17d_az63m1o4923z-png__700.jpg

Pictured above: how I picture Coriolis.
 

Sacrophagus

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Common INTJ Issues: Not handling the urge to invade the Stock markets.
 

Madeleine

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I find IRL INTJ's
Quite eloquent, but struggle with being concise and to the point.


My experience with INTJs has been the exact opposite of this.
They are very succinct in expression.
 
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