[INFJ] Common INFJ issues

[FemMecha]

A metaphor occurred to me to express how INFJs see and come to understand people.

Do you remember those 3-D posters with the hidden image? Everyone would say, just look past the surface and don't focus on any one thing, then it will emerge. While I was never very good at those, I see manage to see a couple of images in them and remember that it occurred when I could just relax into it and have an "Aha!" moment. That is how I look at people - past the surface, without focusing on any one thing, trying to just relax into it without expectation or judgment, and then Aha! some sort of insight emerges.

 

[FemMecha]

Sylvia Plath is such a hard-core INFJ. You can almost think INFP from the intensity of her passion until quotes like these:

 

[011235813]

Sylvia Plath is such a hard-core INFJ. You can almost think INFP from the intensity of her passion until quotes like these:

Sounds enneagram 9ish to me, actually.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

A metaphor occurred to me to express how INFJs see and come to understand people.

Do you remember those 3-D posters with the hidden image? Everyone would say, just look past the surface and don't focus on any one thing, then it will emerge. While I was never very good at those, I see manage to see a couple of images in them and remember that it occurred when I could just relax into it and have an "Aha!" moment. That is how I look at people - past the surface, without focusing on any one thing, trying to just relax into it without expectation or judgment, and then Aha! some sort of insight emerges.

I've used this analogy myself somewhat recently- can't remember where, but it was to describe how things slowly slide into focus (imo, for INFJs). I can't rush my opinions or point of view about things. It really does feel like looking into a Magic Eye image until *poof* something becomes clear.

So yes, I agree it's a good metaphor.

Although I have a hard time keeping that necessary detachment if someone close to me finds it distressing for some reason (like they need me to believe something specific). I think the more I try to force something because it seems like it should make sense and I want to agree, that can throw a wrench in the process for me and make that *poof* moment take longer to happen.

 

[bcoz14]

Sometimes I wish an invisible video camera was hovering around me at all times, filming me in everything I do. Then I'd be able to see who I really am, instantly. I'd be able to identify bad habits and observe which situations I am unconsciously being a jerk to people. I don't want to be a jerk, but I often feel like it.

 

[brainheart]

Sylvia Plath is such a hard-core INFJ. You can almost think INFP from the intensity of her passion until quotes like these:

I don't know. She so strongly expresses her opinions like a Fi-dom. (In the way that can sound elitist to non Fi-doms.) Also, I think there's a lot of Ne random associations/ playfulness/ explorations of possibilities/ rambling in her writing. INFJ writing always seems much more precise/ honed in to me, as if it were all thought out before it approached the page. Also, Fi is about what you like and dislike- it's feeling strongly about things. That's how it's an introverted judging function- taking the external perception inward and judging it.

Doesn't this strike you as Ne?

I saw my life branching out before me like the green fig tree in the story. From the tip of every branch, like a fat purple fig, a wonderful future beckoned and winked. One fig was a husband and a happy home and children, and another fig was a famous poet and another fig was a brilliant professor, and another fig was Ee Gee, the amazing editor, and another fig was Europe and Africa and South America, and another fig was Constantin and Socrates and Attila and a pack of other lovers with queer names and offbeat professions, and another fig was an Olympic lady crew champion, and beyond and above these figs were many more figs I couldn't quite make out. I saw myself sitting in the crotch of this fig tree, starving to death, just because I couldn't make up my mind which of the figs I would choose. I wanted each and every one of them, but choosing one meant losing all the rest, and, as I sat there, unable to decide, the figs began to wrinkle and go black, and, one by one, they plopped to the ground at my feet.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

I don't know. She so strongly expresses her opinions like a Fi-dom. (In the way that can sound elitist to non Fi-doms.) Also, I think there's a lot of Ne random associations/ playfulness/ explorations of possibilities/ rambling in her writing. INFJ writing always seems much more precise/ honed in to me, as if it were all thought out before it approached the page. Also, Fi is about what you like and dislike- it's feeling strongly about things. That's how it's an introverted judging function- taking the external perception inward and judging it.



Doesn't this strike you as Ne?

While I agree very much with the bolded, the block of text quoted actually (imo) falls in that inbetween area to me of the NF propensity to see deep meaning in symbols. I only see Ne 'clearly' in things where there's more quantity of symbols than actual depth to those symbols (exploration of breadth, rather than depth).

I've actually considered starting a thread before about this- using scenes with super rich symbolism as examples (Jane Campion or Miranda July movies come to mind)- how there's a certain kind of symbolism that seems (to me) like a decidedly NF thing. But there's such an annoying infernal competition going on in this forum, a bizarre 'us vs. them', that I figured such a thread would cause more aggravation than not.

Anyway- my point is that I think where the symbolism is done especially well it's practically impossible to know whether it has more Ni or Fi. There are some people for whom I really can't guess a type beyond xNFx because of it.

 

[brainheart]

While I agree very much with the bolded, the block of text quoted actually (imo) falls in that inbetween area to me of the NF propensity to see deep meaning in symbols. I only see Ne 'clearly' in things where there's more quantity of symbols than actual depth to those symbols (exploration of breadth, rather than depth).

I've actually considered starting a thread before about this- using scenes with super rich symbolism as examples (Jane Campion or Miranda July movies come to mind)- how there's a certain kind of symbolism that seems (to me) like a decidedly NF thing. But there's such an annoying infernal competition going on in this forum, a bizarre 'us vs. them', that I figured such a thread would cause more aggravation than not.

Anyway- my point is that I think where the symbolism is done especially well it's practically impossible to know whether it has more Ni or Fi. There are some people for whom I really can't guess a type beyond xNFx because of it.

Us vs them... Is there?

I'm going to agree with you (about the Ni/Fi comment). I write some things that seemingly reek of Ni, for example, but it's probably more the nature of being an introverted intuitive, or INFX. I have difficulty understanding the orientation of INFJ, though. It does feel quite foreign to me.

Also, I didn't mean to imply (if it was interpreted that way) that I think Sylvia Plath is an INFP. I don't have a strong opinion either way, although I'd say she's definitely INFX. I'm just entertaining possibilities while taking in new and different information, or looking at the already given information from different points of view. I think it's easier to reach conclusions on her enneagram type, which seems quite 4 with a strong 3 wing, sexual, than to figure out her MBTI. (I will never understand why she is so frequently typed with a 5 wing. That 3 wing is so strong it could almost be her core type.)

 

[the state i am in]

i do have a strong opinion. i'd say infp seems much more likely than infj. "i think my poems come out of the immediate and sensuous emotional experiences i have."

i just don't see infj in the pictures of her, and i also don't really get infj cadence in the interview posted. she's pretty fast without being as rushed/breathless as an infj would be at that speed. she kind of reminds me of joseph campbell, but that could also be a lot of period/accent affectations. she definitely has the N listing, reframing thing going on. "to speak to a group of people, to come across, to sing to a group of people."

at 12:00 you get some w5 stuff too, "people who can teach me something, this mastery of a craft." she speaks about fascination a lot.

 

[NKC]

I'm everyone's muse rather than friend in the end. When I need someone, *crickets*. I think too much. I feel my emotions but tend to look to them objectively and analyze the fuck out of them, and tear myself a part by doing the same. The only time I feel myself experiencing being me is in the company of others, kinda. I am told over and over again how articulate I am yet can never seem to articulate the things I want to say most. I miss someone deeply like a crazy person because I connect so deeply with people that when it's over, it's like momentum(inertia) principle where I'm waiting for the brick wall. I irritate myself because I am acutely aware of what would be the appropriate way to be but that's not me and so I am constantly "editing" myself, wearing a mask for the sake of, and it's charming and cute and kind and I feel alone more than I care to admit because there are so few people I feel safe enough to be totally myself around. Ugh. I give myself a headache and don't suspect/expect anyone to relate to this verbal vomit.

 

[Dr Mobius]

I believe I may have stumbled upon a common issue for INFJs. Given that all INFJs are madly and helplessly in love with Tom Waits who is already married; how do you deal with not having this perfect relationship? I mean do you use a Tom Wait Likeness Measurer? Or alternatively have you given up, and are currently living in a secluded environ with his entire back catalogue and several cats?

 

[cafe]

I believe I may have stumbled upon a common issue for INFJs. Given that all INFJs are madly and helplessly in love with Tom Waits who is already married; how do you deal with not having this perfect relationship? I mean do you use a Tom Wait Likeness Measurer? Or alternatively have you given up, and are currently living in a secluded environ with his entire back catalogue and several cats?

I had to google him. If I look up his lyrics is it going to ruin my marriage? And does it have to be cats? I don't like cats.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

I believe I may have stumbled upon a common issue for INFJs. Given that all INFJs are madly and helplessly in love with Tom Waits who is already married; how do you deal with not having this perfect relationship? I mean do you use a Tom Wait Likeness Measurer? Or alternatively have you given up, and are currently living in a secluded environ with his entire back catalogue and several cats?

OMG, I love Tom Waits.

I think I used something like a Tom Waits Likeness Measurer when I was younger, but the disappointment/reality of how nobody is really ever enough like Tom Waits to satisfy me eventually set in. Yes, I have indeed resigned to being a hermit with cats. Because if I can't have Tom, what's that point. (And thanks to the stupid restraining order, I can't even get close enough anymore to try to feed him enough pizza to create a clone. So yeah, cats.)

 

[Dr Mobius]

I had to google him. If I look up his lyrics is it going to ruin my marriage? And does it have to be cats? I don't like cats.

I think that your husband would definitely appreciate you not looking checking his music out. The cats are just a place holder, armoured hamsters, flying mongooses whatever animal you can psychically control.

OMG, I love Tom Waits.

I think I used something like a Tom Waits Likeness Measurer when I was younger, but the disappointment/reality of how nobody is really ever enough like Tom Waits to satisfy me eventually set in. Yes, I have indeed resigned to being a hermit with cats. Because if I can't have Tom, what's that point.

Oh I completely understand, once I learned that it was indeed possible to create a miniature sun which I could then implode myself in.
Well it really just took the shine off of any other relationship; to be part of a supernova

(And thanks to the stupid restraining order, I can't even get close enough anymore to try to feed him enough pizza to create a clone. So yeah, cats.)

That is pure genius, who knew that the worlds exponential population growth was down to the increase in pizza consumption? Don’t worry about the restraining order though, it’s only a matter of time until an INFJ manages to feed him enough pizza; at which point I’m sure mass production will start.

 

[Odi et Amo]

Does anyone, especially in an unhealthy period, daydream about others to maintain some feeling of closeness?

 

[autumnandtherain]

Does anyone, especially in an unhealthy period, daydream about others to maintain some feeling of closeness?

Yes. That's kind of a default unhealthy thing that I do. I'm trying to get better at not doing that though because when I do I usually just end up feeling sad and apathetic.

 

[Forever]

Does anyone, especially in an unhealthy period, daydream about others to maintain some feeling of closeness?

Definitely. That works with disintegrating 1's as well too. Second that [MENTION=19591]autumnandtherain[/MENTION]

 

[goldrule2]

Just look at my friend list.. I like INFJs a lot.

But the biggest issue with INFJs is right there in Fidelia's OP..

Those are character flaws, not other people's "misunderstandings"
You can spin it and justify it all you want. INFJs tend to have a very one way view of humanity. It never occurs to them that they might be the problem.

No INFJ.. you are not perfect nor are you emotionally and morally pure.

The Clue is in your humanity, and it's OK to be weak and flawed. Other people are not crazy or overstepping the boundaries for noticing. Other people still love and care about you even though they notice and mention things. And heaven forbid, if they don't follow the 19 rules of approaching an INFJ when presenting criticism.

All this talk of insight and Fe and it's astounding how little you understand people sometimes.

********

YOU are SO right Arclight !!!!! Thank you; spot on!!

I have 2.5 INFJ friends --2 friendships for a very long time and the .5 friendship still formulating I think --good gawd - I really do wish my .5 acquaintance would recognize what the push me pull me/disappearance thing can do to friends . . . that would be true compassion I think. And . . . . perhaps step out of that INFJ "I am hiding behind a rock just observing you" for a while thing . . . many of us non-INFJs have also gone through that "developmental phase", but after a while we grow up and get over ourselves. . . . sorry to be so harsh but stepping of one's comfort zone is hard but carries many benefits in my experience.

 

[goldrule2]

Speak for yourself uumlau I am very infjish when it comes to any INTP nerdishness; I keep that well hidden.

 

[goldrule2]

I would prefer if you did not paraphrase me here. I called them "Character flaws" because that is what they are, They can not be fixed or altered because they are not seen as such. The 1st step to change and growth is admitting it is needed.

There is nothing wrong with being flawed, because it is a universal truth of the human condition.
I will say it again.. It's a one way insight into humanity. " I see into you, I see into me, I see you better than you can see yourself, and you can't see into me at all."

Bravo arclight!!