[ENFJ] Common ENFJ Issues

[Domino]

I'll be in my bunker.

 

[TopherRed]

*wonders how Domino survived the apocalypse he caused*

 

[Domino]

It's okay. I was wearing my inflammable plastic pajamas.

 

[skylights]

The day I can convince my ENFJ that I'm ever right is the day I die happy.

geez i know.

i guess the logic is that they wouldn't be in a relationship with you if you were wrong all the time, but it would seriously be nice to get a little affirmation once in a while. otherwise, especially if it's not a romantic relationship, it can come off feeling like they just like hanging out with you because they can lord over you and direct you around. which is scary and undermining, given initial ENFJ warmth. you secretly wonder what you've done wrong - or, worse, if they ever really liked you that much after all...

(edit - not all ENFJs necessarily of course, i just relate to moiety's comment in regards to an ENFJ friend)

The more something is hyped.. the more I am likely to avoid it.

i understand not wanting to be manipulated... that said... what does work if i'd like to get an ENFJ to reconsider something?

 

[Arclight]

i understand not wanting to be manipulated... that said... what does work if i'd like to get an ENFJ to reconsider something?

As I understand it, with most people I am very reasonable and open to new ideas. Some people aren't worth changing my mind over but they are always the exception.
I have heard about some ENFJs being extremely stubborn people.

In my case it's like this.. I am being stubborn over something I feel, then oddly enough you have to make your case to my intellect. I guess if I am being emotionally stubborn then they aren't listening, so you have to go over their head.
Likewise if I am being stubborn over something I think.. Then you have to make an emotional plea. I am a sucker for sad eyes. Anger almost never works , but I don't like hurting people , so they key is to touch my soft side.

It's less complicated than it sounds. It's just counter intuitive to most people.

 

[Adasta]

In my case it's like this.. I am being stubborn over something I feel, then oddly enough you have to make your case to my intellect. I guess if I am being emotionally stubborn then they aren't listening, so you have to go over their head.
Likewise if I am being stubborn over something I think.. Then you have to make an emotional plea. I am a sucker for sad eyes. Anger almost never works , but I don't like hurting people , so they key is to touch my soft side.

What is your response to a display of anger?

My ENFJ does not seem to rank anger (in another) as being "legitimate". In fact, if I am ever angry, it appears to her that I am being completely irrational and unfair. This only serves to increase my anger, since the denial of any emotion's "right to exist" spins me into a fury.

How would you advise us emotional types convey our anger? Anger is important, but it's difficult to deal with a stubborn ENFJ who is wrong but won't admit it AND who thinks someone else getting angry is a character flaw.

 

[Arclight]

What is your response to a display of anger?

My ENFJ does not seem to rank anger (in another) as being "legitimate". In fact, if I am ever angry, it appears to her that I am being completely irrational and unfair. This only serves to increase my anger, since the denial of any emotion's "right to exist" spins me into a fury.

How would you advise us emotional types convey our anger? Anger is important, but it's difficult to deal with a stubborn ENFJ who is wrong but won't admit it AND who thinks someone else getting angry is a character flaw.

Anger when it comes to my partner is like this.. You have every right to feel angry. But in my world that is still no excuse to forget your manners. Would you yell at your boss? A stranger at the corner shop? This is what I mean by appealing to my intellect. Explain that you are angry and it's not difficult to deal and work something out, And I will even be empathetic and sympathetic. I will do whatever I can to respect you and stop whatever is upsetting you.. Express your anger though, and I will go on the back foot and probably just start yelling back.
If you are persistent , I will get the claws out and then we will have problems.. because who wants to get into a battle of wills with the person they love?

 

[Adasta]

If you are persistent , I will get the claws out and then we will have problems.. because who wants to get into a battle of wills with the person they love?

And there's the rub.

I suppose the problem is that my getting angry is actually a display (if you will) of just how much I care. You see, I wouldn't actually get angry in front of another person in quite the same way as I would in front of my partner. The depth of the emotional bond means that the anger represents a physical manifestation of the intensity inherent in the relationship.

For example, I wouldn't get angry with most people about most things. I'm more likely just to think they are stupid and then have nothing more to do with them. Actually getting angry (or "upset" as I usually call it, because it is almost never "anger" in the sense of rage with my partner, but more in the sense of "wounded") is akin to saying "I care enough about what you're saying to be emotionally affected by it".

Do you think it would be more efficacious to say something like:

I'm really angry because...x, y and z.

 

[Domino]

Stoicism at terrific odds with my powerful instincts.

"She belonged to that feminine variety which the Romans call the woman of fire. Her eyes had the cold glitter of a caged tiger, knowing his impotence and being compelled to swallow his envy of destruction."

I tell myself that I can cope with the bars, or that what I most want was never mine - just to calm myself. It was never mine and I was never going to have it and I can be consoled with one more denial that will never own me. What sort of coping mechanism is this. Innate? Taught? Even Seneca sent his wife from the room so that he wouldn't have to bear watching her bleed to death with him. Stoicism is a band-aid. Stoicism is resignation.

But I don't have anything else that can cope with the seismic activity. If I don't deny or dismiss, I put holes in walls or myself.

How do you face something that you cannot do without, but must?

 

[iwakar]

Common issue:

They rock too hard.

 

[Dali]

We need a thread for people seeking advice on ENFJs from ENFJs. Or can I just ask my question here?

 

[Sparrow]

:hi: Made a new thread for questions:

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46970&p=1545641#post1545641

 

[SilkRoad]

I haven't read through all this thread (though I'm going to). But I really get the impression that ENFJs and INFJs are very similar. Not surprising I guess, considering the functions...but still more so than I would have expected. Then again, I'm a pretty Fe-heavy INFJ. I'm a more SJ-like INFJ than an NT-like INFJ and I sometimes test as an extrovert, though I know for a fact I am not.

Any comments on major differences between INFJs and ENFJs? Even ENFJs seem to comment about needing a good deal of time alone, etc.

It's just, I relate so much to a lot of the comments about processing emotional hurt and that sort of thing.

 

[Domino]

I frequently test as an INFJ (I chalked it up to being a 4w3) and there are many INFJs I relate to, perhaps more so than ENFJs of a type, though other 4-type ENFJs feel quite familiar to me. If your Fe and Ni are of nearly equal strengths (like mine) you may experience this dysphoria. And you're very welcome to post in this thread. I enjoy the collective conscience it brings.

If I were another type, I would easily be INFJ. If my ENFP sister were another type, she would be ENTP.

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

My Fe affects mine and others bladders... From laughter?? It may be a tumor though.

 

[*poke*]

As far as I'm aware (and this could, of course, be glossing over a more painful reason...) is that I assume the other person isn't really that interested. I frequently hold back to see if the other person is going to pursue it. I understand how it could be perceived by other types as "playing games," but really I just don't trust that they'll a) respond to me in the nonjudgemental and genuinely interested way I'm looking for and b) actually want to know what I'm going to say, and have the patience to hear me out. It's a combination of trust/being self-conscious about talking about myself.

Yes. This. This is EXACTLY how I feel. I'm exceptionally sensitive to others' judgements and perceptions, so I have to be extremely careful about who I open up to (as in they have to be genuinely interested and really nonjudgemental).

 

[Thursday]

1. Giving more than the healthy half.
2. Mistaking sympathy for love
3. Tyrannizing the other person's growth in own hands
4. Keeping pleasantries on the table when the knives are needed
5. Being uncomfortable with receiving
6. Self-abnegating or self-indulging under stress
7. Bottling up emotions without sublimating
8. Being genuine....but with many people so that it comes off as superficial

 

[BenENFJ]

Add to that:
manipulation when pissed.
The constant battle of trying to please others and trying to be yourself.
The pull to take on others' problems even when it may be none of our business
Being too hard on ourselves
Some of us can be major "martyr types" (not me)
Hard to get to know and can seem closed off (come off way too formal and uptight)
Can talk too much
If we judge too hastily, we can up with some really wacky conclusions
We can come off really "definite" and "absolute". It can come off judgmental whether or not we really feel that way about a topic.
Can play devil's advocate and staunchly argue a position we don't necessarily believe in and be idiosyncratic with our beliefs (maybe more of a personal issue)
With me personally, I like to test people to see how they will react (typically not harmful things but it still probably isn't the best thing to do).

....You have me nailed.

No sir, you have me nailed. I have scoured the internet for some explination fo playing the devil's advocate and could not find one. I do not know why I do it. (Honestly it pisses people off.) You think we would try to avoid it right?

 

[BenENFJ]

I would like to ask my fellow ENFJs a question. Most of my relationships have started off swimmingly. I put a lot in, and people at first respond well to it. However, there always seems to be this point after a couple of months where they start to avoid me. (I guess I might have expressed myself to fully.) I know right away when someone is pulling away from me. It hurts, but I realize that they just don't want to see me so I act more distant. After another few months we usually become friends again. I have never had the problem with people twice. Once they have come back into my life, it is rare that they leave again. It is simply like clockwork. Do you know why this happens? Has this happened to you? Is it really as simple as being to smothering?

 

[Lookin4theBestNU]

I put a lot in, and people at first respond well to it. However, there always seems to be this point after a couple of months where they start to avoid me. (I guess I might have expressed myself to fully.) I know right away when someone is pulling away from me. It hurts, but I realize that they just don't want to see me so I act more distant. After another few months we usually become friends again.

From my own personal experience, it is usually not people pulling away from me. I can look back on my behavior when this has occurred and I've realized that I am the one who began putting up barriers with the other person. This is most especially true if I have had 'intense' contact with someone for an extended period of time. In my chaotically busy world, an extended period of time can amount to just a few days . The feedback that I received when I was younger (and actually worried about it) was always interesting. An enthusiastic, "Where have you been stranger!?!", usually started a mini-reunion with someone whom I believed didn't want to have much to do with me. The truth (for me anyway) is that I've come to recognize that intense contact with someone that I really like can be draining and sometimes I have to regroup. I am a little more careful nowadays to try to keep my enthusiasm in check and stay self aware to the early signals that I am getting tired. That's not to say that this doesn't still happen, however, as I've gotten older it has happened less often.