• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

Cold war 2.0

Virtual ghost

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
19,908
Well, it is well knows that people at the top are often morally fuzzy. Therefore who is here a sociopath or psychopath is basically irrelevant. However for the most common Ukrainian people it is objectively better that the country isn't overrun. Someone who is unleashing this level of destruction upon civilian infrastructure simply can't have any good intentions towards the population. Especially if we consider how local history looks like. Therefore in my book it is totally ok to support the people of Ukraine, even if someone might get some geopolitical advantages over that. What in the case of Ukraine's survival is most likely to be EU, since it is getting a huge new member state that is full of various resources that are needed globally. Plus some toxic relationships got "defined" over this. However cheap geopolitical moralization really isn't the right tone here since people are dying in mass and one side is much more to blame for that. The fact that there is now stampede of about a dozen countries that are looking a way how to join EU or NATO as quickly as possible only proves this. What proves that someone here made something very morally wrong, what goes way beyond classic global games.
 
yeghor

yeghor

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Messages
4,276
Virtual ghost said:
Well, it is well knows that people at the top are often morally fuzzy. Therefore who is here a sociopath or psychopath is basically irrelevant. However for the most common Ukrainian people it is objectively better that the country isn't overrun. Someone who is unleashing this level of destruction upon civilian infrastructure simply can't have any good intentions towards the population. Especially if we consider how local history looks like. Therefore in my book it is totally ok to support the people of Ukraine, even if someone might get some geopolitical advantages over that. What in the case of Ukraine's survival is most likely to be EU, since it is getting a huge new member state that is full of various resources that are needed globally. Plus some toxic relationships got "defined" over this. However cheap geopolitical moralization really isn't the right tone here since people are dying in mass and one side is much more to blame for that. The fact that there is now stampede of about a dozen countries that are looking a way how to join EU or NATO as quickly as possible only proves this. What proves that someone here made something very morally wrong, what goes way beyond classic global games.
Click to expand...

A 17 part documentary, about 20 hours-long in total. Discusses the govt change that happened in Ukraine in 2014 after Euromaidan protests, instigated by US (a Victoria Nuland, who looks like Madeline Albright btw, was involved), that put far-right ultranationalist/pro-US factions (Right Sector, Azov etc.) into power, and the conflicts that took place since then until the Russian invasion in 2022.

Roses have thorns - Documentary
 
yeghor

yeghor

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Messages
4,276
yeghor said:
A 17 part documentary, about 20 hours-long in total. Discusses the govt change that happened in Ukraine in 2014 after Euromaidan protests, instigated by US (a Victoria Nuland, who looks like Madeline Albright btw, was involved), that put far-right ultranationalist/pro-US factions (Right Sector, Azov etc.) into power, and the conflicts that took place since then until the Russian invasion in 2022.
Click to expand...

Victoria Nuland by the way looks like Nurse Ratched in "One flew over the cuckoo's nest", who also looks like actor Udo Kier, who usually plays Nazi officers.

Victoria Nuland

Nurse Ratched - One flew over Cuckoo's nest

Udo Kier
 
Virtual ghost

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
19,908
Even if US "installed" something in Ukraine that still doesn't give Russia the right to level the whole cities there. Especially the ones at the east that are by good margin the Russian speaking. That simply isn't on an the equal level. Plus if this was really so bad there would surely be some large counter revolution and Zelensky wouldn't be elected with such enthusiasm. Not to mention that if this government is so horrible they would never get open invitation to join EU. That is possibly the most advanced and most democratic entity on the planet. While Ukraine talks with it on the daily basis and there isn't that much problem.


On the other hand just Stalin killed something like 3 million Ukrainians through hunger and other nonsense (not to mention all the episodes before that). So it is logical that Ukrainians have "nationalistic" groups that want to pull country out of Russian influence. It would be unrealistic to expect otherwise.
 
yeghor

yeghor

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Messages
4,276
Virtual ghost said:
Even if US "installed" something in Ukraine that still doesn't give Russia the right to level the whole cities there. Especially the ones at the east that are by good margin the Russian speaking. That simply isn't on an the equal level. Plus if this was really so bad there would surely be some large counter revolution and Zelensky wouldn't be elected with such enthusiasm. Not to mention that if this government is so horrible they would never get open invitation to join EU. That is possibly the most advanced and most democratic entity on the planet. While Ukraine talks with it on the daily basis and there isn't that much problem.


On the other hand just Stalin killed something like 3 million Ukrainians through hunger and other nonsense (not to mention all the episodes before that). So it is logical that Ukrainians have "nationalistic" groups that want to pull country out of Russian influence. It would be unrealistic to expect otherwise.
Click to expand...
Those ultra-nationalistic groups have been oppressing and harassing Russian speaking population in Eastern Ukraine since the govt change in 2014. I've watched videos of those people saying that they voted for Zelensky hoping he would make things easier for them in Eastern Ukraine and give them some ethnic minority rights but now they feel cheated and curse his name.

They say that they've been forced into basements of their residentials buildings by Ukrainian Azov troops, who then set up firing spots on upper floors making the buildings a target for Russian troops and Azov troops did not let them to leave basements, and some who left the basements to get water etc were shot by sniper fire. Some also say that their cities/homes have been shelled by artillery (they call it grad system) fire from the Ukrainian side even before the Russian troops arrived.

They also say that it's been a living hell for them in the last 8 years due to ultranationalist Ukrainian police/military harassing them for their Russian cultural background and for not being Ukrainian enough. And they say that they now feel relieved that at long last the Russian troops are there to liberate them. They welcome Russian troops and curse Azov troops, generally referring to them as fascistas, a habit left over from their fight against Nazis in WW2.

Of course all those doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. Russia Bad, EU/US Good, Ukraine Victim.
 
Virtual ghost

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
19,908
Well, the tough times make these kinds of incidents. Plus we know that before the revolution pro Russians have made violent moves against the Ukrainians. Not to mention that many top pro western politicians were jailed. There was plenty of obvious corruption that remained from the previous system. One pro western ex president was even poisoned during the campaign years ago etc. That is exactly what fueled the revolution of 2014.


Which is exactly why it is best that these two nations go separate ways as much as possible. Since there is so much bad blood that this will never really work. However for that you need independent Ukraine.
 
Virtual ghost

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
19,908
Russia-Ukraine updates: Ukraine strikes key Russian-held bridge in Kherson


Supposedly they hit it again and now the bridge is ultra unsafe even for just about everything. I mean this is a real game changer since now supplying the occupation force in Kherson will become quite hard and it will depend on a single bottleneck that is evidently in the range of Ukraine's troops. What means that supplying and retreating are becoming a tricky business for invasion force. Since now they are on thin ice. What means it is likely that this is the start of major counter-attack that will probably work. Since that should include the whole whole countryside around Kherson.





China and Indonesia agree to boost relations during Beijing meeting

Turkey's strategy in Kurdish-dominated areas of Iraq, Syria under scrutiny

Afghan women report beatings, abuse under Taliban

Rising star of Italian far-right, Giorgia Meloni, eyes top job

Philippines: Powerful earthquake rocks nation
 
Virtual ghost

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
19,908

Similar threads

J
War on aliens
Replies
5
Views
338
Julius_Van_Der_Beak
Julius_Van_Der_Beak
ygolo
Let's talk bureaucratic(government and corporate) waste
Replies
3
Views
701
ygolo
ygolo
ygolo
Is global population decline happening and is it a bad thing?
Replies
19
Views
2K
ygolo
ygolo
T
Stackemup Typology (Enneagram-Side)'s Description For Enneatype IV (released)
Replies
2
Views
782
KitchenFly
KitchenFly
Kephalos
Paper: Saving and Fearing Muslim Women in 'Post-Commumist' Poland.
Replies
0
Views
614
Kephalos
Kephalos
Top