Eric B
ⒺⓉⒷ
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2008
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- INTP
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- Instinctual Variant
- sp/sx
Now that we have a separate forum for book reviews, I might as well post this here (I originally linked to the book in the Inclusion/Control/Affection thread, but hadn't written the review yet).
There are also APS videos now, which I linked to in the video section.
God Created You: A Guide to Temperament Therapy
by Dr. Rick Martin; Jesus Is Lord Ministries, Charlotte, MI; Cook Communication, Dundee, IL 60118 (2004)
http://jacksonsnyder.com/mgi/studies/GCY.pdf.
It’s 220 pages, and almost a rewrite of the Arno’s The Missing Link (http://www.amazon.com/Missing-Link-Revealing-Spiritual-Genetics/dp/0981489427/ref=pd_cp_b_0) which is a scaled down version of the Temperament Theory manual given to NCCA counselors. Those are likely not available online anywhere, and probably hard to get even in paper form, but this new volume is pretty much the same thing, and available in .pdf form in the above link.
It reflects when the Arno Profile System (APS) was still known as the “Temperament Analysis Profile†(TAP).
One big difference is the assigning of named “characters†to the five temperaments, just like Tim LaHaye does with the original four. Phlegmatic actually ends up as “Phil†in both systems, but the others were all changed. Martin intermixes discussion of both the male and female version of the temperament in the descriptions, while LaHaye only introduces the female “wives†of the temperament characters in the chapter “Temperament and Sexuality†(This is in Why You Act the Way You Do). Martin doesn’t have any illustrations of the characters, however.
It pretty much follows the outline of The Missing Link; introducing the concept of temperament, then three areas of Inclusion, Control and Affection, and then each of the five temperaments broken down in the three areas by “strengths†and “weaknesses†and what the temperament can do to live in its strengths. There’s also a chapter on how to deal with anger, since it plagues each of the temperaments in different ways.
It, like The Missing Link, doesn’t go into the Phlegmatic or Compulsive variations of the other four. Only the main Manual does that.
It also doesn’t deal with blends between the three areas (A couple of those are briefly discussed in Missing Link and some of the other manuals). So it deals with the “pure†temperaments; assuming them to be the same in all three areas. (It should be noted that other temperaments in other areas will modify each other, so things may end up a bit different from these descriptions).
Here I will focus on the Control area descriptions, to match them to the Keirsey temperaments, since these correlations are generally not as strong (and are disputed in two key areas) as the correlation of Inclusion to the Interaction Styles.
My linking of Melancholy in Control to the SJ “Guardian†of Keirsey, and by extension, MBTI type theory was always the strongest correlation. Melancholy in Control mentions “Adheres to the Rules†and “Family-orientedâ€. These would correspond to the “concrete structures†the Guardian is known for.
Here we see a perception function with an extraverted Judgment. The perception being introverted Sensing, even though it is not specified as “concrete†and “internally†based there (this is not recognized in APS).
Inbetween, it’s pointed out that IF the Melancholy “concludes doing well in school is beneficial, he will be prone to do well scholastically. He will not have to be reminded to do homework often. He will not be prone to skip school or waste school time. The Melancholy worker will not need to have constant supervision, will not miss work often and will do a better than average job.â€
Again, these sound like typical Guardian descriptions.
“The only time a Melancholy in Control is domineering is because she feels responsible to make sure select people are doing it right. Therefore a Melancholy mother might be controlling with family members because she has concluded it is her responsibility before God to make sure everyone turns out right.â€
SJ’s are often pictured as “controllingâ€, and this would match and explain why. It would also explain why in FIRO-MBTI correlations STJ types often come out with high expressed Control (Melancholy is low). FIRO is measuring temporary behavior, while APS, using the same questionnaire and scoring system somehow, is measuring the inborn need.
It then mentions the Melancholy’s “black and white†sense of “right and wrong†(according to the conclusions she has drawn based upon the information she has gathered). The person even assumes “everyone has this listâ€, and knows when they are doing wrong when not doing according to the Melancholy’s “right†list.
Sounds like S and J again! (Si+Je with maybe some tertiary or inferior Ji as well).
However, we next see the flipside of this that looks like it would contradict the SJ profiles: the tendency to rebel.
“The Melancholy student who concludes she does not have to graduate from high school, or education will not benefit her, simply will not do well in school and probably will not graduate.†“These Melancholies have all drawn conclusions based on inaccurate information†it then says. Yet the same strong will that gives them their “stick to-it-ness†will now lead them to not change their behavior, unless forced to rethink their position.
In the Inclusion section, the book even mentions a Melancholy who thought her T.A.P (APS) was incorrect because it said she was a “perfectionist†and her house was always messy. She was a strict perfectionist when it came to her husband remembering some obscure regional holiday no one else ever herd of, though!
It then concludes “Melancholies are perfectionists in the areas of life important to them.â€
This can explain a pure Melancholy Compulsive close to us who is very messy, when Melancholies and ISTJ’s are stereotyped as very neat. A “control†issue from childhood, basically, has led her to hoard clutter.
The book next says the Melancholy’s criteria for the rules he lives by is that they are the ones he has made. An example was a Melancholy who believed it was OK to speed, because she was married to a police officer, and could thus get away with it. This I haven’t seen in the APS material. This on one hand sounds more like an NT or Choleric in Control (or perhaps SP or Sanguine in Control) and you would think, of course, very unâ€Guardianâ€-like. However, this is an instance where the authorized “concrete structure†(the “authorized†institution of “the lawâ€) is allowing this, so it’s OK. This would actually help bust a stereotype of SJ’s as always doing right, and a possible assumption that if a person speeds and gets away with it, “they probably can’t be an SJâ€.
Then it goes into the family-orientation, which of course is a big match with the Guardian. It mentions that this is not expressed to family members, however. They often express negative stuff, like what people do wrong.
Yet on the positive side, “They will not be quick to divorce or run away from normal family problems. They have the tendency to hang in there and stick it out during the tough timesâ€.
More weaknesses include “rigid†and “inflexibleâ€. The example given is the movie portraying that if supper is not on the table, “there will be hell to payâ€.
Also, the midlife crisis where they wish they had done various things when younger, and then rashly act out with “poor decisions in the ‘before it is too late’ attempt to compensate for their loss. An affair, a weird job change, a new sports car, etc., can be an attempt to make up for what the Melancholy in Control feels has been lostâ€. This sounds like it is straight out of Quenk’s “Ne in the inferior gripâ€, and could of course be tertiary Ne too.
From here, it goes into the “rebellion†tendency. In Leo Ryan’s FIRO-B “locator map†the same set of Control scores are called “the Rebelâ€. Again, this sounds very contrary to the Guardian, but FIRO generally focuses a bit more on the negative side of the behavior groups. APS focuses on both positive and negative (while MBTI and Keirsey focus more on the positive).
It then talks about some familiar traits, like being slow to move in into unfamiliar areas. In a new leadership position, they will be slow to act like the boss, but once they have been boss long enough to be comfortable, they will likely be an able boss. Otherwise, “do not like new. They do not like changes. Change equals stress to them.†Again, very compatible with an Si preference. They need time to move into unfamiliar areas, or in type function lingo, to build the internal storehouse of concrete (tangible, “at handâ€) data Si operates off of.
In the area of Affection, something I don’t remember spelled out elsewhere, that both “Melvin Melancholy and Eric Choleric initiate love, affection, approval and recognition in order to get what they want. It is sort of a trade; I will give you what you want IF you will give me what I want.â€
What should also, in passing be pointed out, regarding the Melancholy and Sanguine in all the areas, is “indirect behaviorâ€. Now, from what I learned in the old APS literature, Sanguine, Phlegmatic and Melancholy, whose expressed and wanted scores were congruent (both high, medium or low) were “directâ€; expressing what they want, and wanting what they express. Choleric and Supine were the indirect ones, expressing and wanting differently (one high and the other low). However, this book is calling the Melancholy and Sanguine “indirect†too.
However, this is based on a point that everyone really has the same needs, such as interaction with others, affection, recognition and independence. The Sanguine in Control conveys little need of recognition, though has a lot of this need, and the Melancholy conveys little need of any interaction, though still has it. So “Want†simply refers to the typical way the temperament goes about getting their need met, while “need†in that respect is a basic human need. The Melancholy says “I don’t wantâ€, and truly in his mind doesn’t want, yet the underlying need is still there. They “do not need a high amount of appreciation [and thus it wasn't mentioned for them in other APS material), but when this need is not being met(which indirect behavior causes) they do feel people are taking advantage and resentment begins to build."
So e/w is congruent, yet there's still an indirectness. The difference from the Supine is that the latter knows he needs interaction (hence high "want") but still doesn't express this need, and then hopes others "read his mind" and come to give it to him, which they likely won't. So he's truly "indirect" in a greater sense.
The Phlegmatic in Control's strengths are "Practical", "Conservative", "Peace-loving", "An efficient peace maker/arbitrator".While two of these sound like the NF, the other two sound more SJ, as does this description:
"If he recognizes there is a problem and he can be a part of the solution, logical reasoning is a motivator. At this point, presenting factual information and end results will help Phil Phlegmatic find great answers. Facts and results: if you continue down the path you have chosen, the results will be thus. However, if you choose to go down this path over here, the results will be these."
Now all of this sounds almost like typical NT descriptions. Though the NT's motive is not said to be "peace". They are "strategic" rather than "diplomatic" according to Keirsey. HOWEVER:
So it sounds like Phlegmatic in Control has traits of three of Keirsey's temperaments (everything but the SP). In my theory, Phlegmatic should hypothetically be "XXXX". When someone on a blog suggested this years ago, this was when I set out to create the "81 Types" idea (and someone in this forum came up with a "76 Types" version), which sought to add a third pole to the four dichotomies. However, I found that this does not work with the cognitive functions type is based on since they are "either/or" in introversion or extraversion, and basically abandoned the idea.
So Phlegmatic then would seem to be possibly the most moderate form of any type, and can be any of Keirsey's temperaments (though it would fit NF the most and SP the least).
The weaknesses then go into the stubborn resistance to change and the non-involvement, and indecisiveness, and eventually, the dry humor.
It also mentions the Phlegmatic having a need of appreciation, which I had never seen in APS literature. It seemed only the Sanguine, Supine and Choleric had a high need there.
There are also APS videos now, which I linked to in the video section.
God Created You: A Guide to Temperament Therapy
by Dr. Rick Martin; Jesus Is Lord Ministries, Charlotte, MI; Cook Communication, Dundee, IL 60118 (2004)
http://jacksonsnyder.com/mgi/studies/GCY.pdf.

It’s 220 pages, and almost a rewrite of the Arno’s The Missing Link (http://www.amazon.com/Missing-Link-Revealing-Spiritual-Genetics/dp/0981489427/ref=pd_cp_b_0) which is a scaled down version of the Temperament Theory manual given to NCCA counselors. Those are likely not available online anywhere, and probably hard to get even in paper form, but this new volume is pretty much the same thing, and available in .pdf form in the above link.
It reflects when the Arno Profile System (APS) was still known as the “Temperament Analysis Profile†(TAP).
One big difference is the assigning of named “characters†to the five temperaments, just like Tim LaHaye does with the original four. Phlegmatic actually ends up as “Phil†in both systems, but the others were all changed. Martin intermixes discussion of both the male and female version of the temperament in the descriptions, while LaHaye only introduces the female “wives†of the temperament characters in the chapter “Temperament and Sexuality†(This is in Why You Act the Way You Do). Martin doesn’t have any illustrations of the characters, however.
LaHaye | Martin |
Sparky and Sarah Sanguine | Sandy and Sammy Sanguine |
Martin and Martha Melancholy | Melvin and Melody Melancholy |
Phil and Polly Phlegmatic | Phil and Phoebe Phlegmatic |
Rocky and Clara Choleric | Eric and Erica Choleric |
Stewart and Susie Supine |
It, like The Missing Link, doesn’t go into the Phlegmatic or Compulsive variations of the other four. Only the main Manual does that.
It also doesn’t deal with blends between the three areas (A couple of those are briefly discussed in Missing Link and some of the other manuals). So it deals with the “pure†temperaments; assuming them to be the same in all three areas. (It should be noted that other temperaments in other areas will modify each other, so things may end up a bit different from these descriptions).
Here I will focus on the Control area descriptions, to match them to the Keirsey temperaments, since these correlations are generally not as strong (and are disputed in two key areas) as the correlation of Inclusion to the Interaction Styles.
My linking of Melancholy in Control to the SJ “Guardian†of Keirsey, and by extension, MBTI type theory was always the strongest correlation. Melancholy in Control mentions “Adheres to the Rules†and “Family-orientedâ€. These would correspond to the “concrete structures†the Guardian is known for.
Melvin Melancholy is self-motivated. Self-motivated means, from a temperament viewpoint, the Melancholy gathers information, analyzes information (sometimes analyzes it to death), draws conclusions and acts accordingly. … The best way to motivate a Melancholy in Control is to provide him with sufficient and accurate information and allow him to draw conclusions. Melvin Melancholy usually makes good decisions, depending upon the information gathered, and he adheres to his conclusions.
Here we see a perception function with an extraverted Judgment. The perception being introverted Sensing, even though it is not specified as “concrete†and “internally†based there (this is not recognized in APS).
Inbetween, it’s pointed out that IF the Melancholy “concludes doing well in school is beneficial, he will be prone to do well scholastically. He will not have to be reminded to do homework often. He will not be prone to skip school or waste school time. The Melancholy worker will not need to have constant supervision, will not miss work often and will do a better than average job.â€
Again, these sound like typical Guardian descriptions.
“The only time a Melancholy in Control is domineering is because she feels responsible to make sure select people are doing it right. Therefore a Melancholy mother might be controlling with family members because she has concluded it is her responsibility before God to make sure everyone turns out right.â€
SJ’s are often pictured as “controllingâ€, and this would match and explain why. It would also explain why in FIRO-MBTI correlations STJ types often come out with high expressed Control (Melancholy is low). FIRO is measuring temporary behavior, while APS, using the same questionnaire and scoring system somehow, is measuring the inborn need.
It then mentions the Melancholy’s “black and white†sense of “right and wrong†(according to the conclusions she has drawn based upon the information she has gathered). The person even assumes “everyone has this listâ€, and knows when they are doing wrong when not doing according to the Melancholy’s “right†list.
Sounds like S and J again! (Si+Je with maybe some tertiary or inferior Ji as well).
However, we next see the flipside of this that looks like it would contradict the SJ profiles: the tendency to rebel.
“The Melancholy student who concludes she does not have to graduate from high school, or education will not benefit her, simply will not do well in school and probably will not graduate.†“These Melancholies have all drawn conclusions based on inaccurate information†it then says. Yet the same strong will that gives them their “stick to-it-ness†will now lead them to not change their behavior, unless forced to rethink their position.
In the Inclusion section, the book even mentions a Melancholy who thought her T.A.P (APS) was incorrect because it said she was a “perfectionist†and her house was always messy. She was a strict perfectionist when it came to her husband remembering some obscure regional holiday no one else ever herd of, though!
It then concludes “Melancholies are perfectionists in the areas of life important to them.â€
This can explain a pure Melancholy Compulsive close to us who is very messy, when Melancholies and ISTJ’s are stereotyped as very neat. A “control†issue from childhood, basically, has led her to hoard clutter.
The book next says the Melancholy’s criteria for the rules he lives by is that they are the ones he has made. An example was a Melancholy who believed it was OK to speed, because she was married to a police officer, and could thus get away with it. This I haven’t seen in the APS material. This on one hand sounds more like an NT or Choleric in Control (or perhaps SP or Sanguine in Control) and you would think, of course, very unâ€Guardianâ€-like. However, this is an instance where the authorized “concrete structure†(the “authorized†institution of “the lawâ€) is allowing this, so it’s OK. This would actually help bust a stereotype of SJ’s as always doing right, and a possible assumption that if a person speeds and gets away with it, “they probably can’t be an SJâ€.
Then it goes into the family-orientation, which of course is a big match with the Guardian. It mentions that this is not expressed to family members, however. They often express negative stuff, like what people do wrong.
Yet on the positive side, “They will not be quick to divorce or run away from normal family problems. They have the tendency to hang in there and stick it out during the tough timesâ€.
More weaknesses include “rigid†and “inflexibleâ€. The example given is the movie portraying that if supper is not on the table, “there will be hell to payâ€.
Here we see the negative Si in overdrive.The fear of failure stops her from doing or attempting new events she would like to try. In the workplace, she tends to stay at the current job instead of going after a position she would like to have. If she is not confident in her ability, she is likely not to attempt it. If she has attempted a new activity or project in the past and failed, her fear of failure is even more sensitive to new events. She feels like a total failure by merely contemplating the new job or position or promotion. In the weakness of the temperament, she will remain in the current position and will grumble, complain and often express “I wish I had…†once the opportunity goes by.
Also, the midlife crisis where they wish they had done various things when younger, and then rashly act out with “poor decisions in the ‘before it is too late’ attempt to compensate for their loss. An affair, a weird job change, a new sports car, etc., can be an attempt to make up for what the Melancholy in Control feels has been lostâ€. This sounds like it is straight out of Quenk’s “Ne in the inferior gripâ€, and could of course be tertiary Ne too.
From here, it goes into the “rebellion†tendency. In Leo Ryan’s FIRO-B “locator map†the same set of Control scores are called “the Rebelâ€. Again, this sounds very contrary to the Guardian, but FIRO generally focuses a bit more on the negative side of the behavior groups. APS focuses on both positive and negative (while MBTI and Keirsey focus more on the positive).
The passive aggressiveness will support the typical “Guardian†stereotype when you really think about it. The “passive†part can be seen as still being consistent with what Keirsey called “cooperativeâ€, and Berens, “affiliativeâ€. But as we always say in type, people are never “always†anything. So this would explain many anomalies you might see in known SJ’s.The rule he lives by becomes “All rules were made to be broken – and I am the one to break them.†Melancholies are clever at passive-aggressive types of rebellion.
Melvin Melancholy will not necessarily verbally rebel to your face, however his actions will be in line with his rebellion and anger. As a child, he may believe parents have no right to inflict rules concerning his bedroom. He may never say defiantly, “No, I will not clean up my room†but his room will always be a mess. Grounding him to the bedroom until it is clean will not help. As a teenager who believes he should be making all of his own decisions at 15, he will not necessarily say (though he might), “I do not care what you say, I am smoking, drinking, partying, etc.†but he will be doing it behind his parents’ backs at every opportunity. Even after he has been caught several times and punished his behavior will continue. Melancholies continue to live by the rules until they change the rules. Melvin Melancholy will not necessarily attempt to get the “stupid†shop rules changed, he simply will not follow them. Reprimands will not help. If he believes the government should not be telling its citizens what to do, he will not necessarily work at changing the seat belt law, he consistently will refuse to wear one. Tickets will not change his mind [emphasis added]
It then talks about some familiar traits, like being slow to move in into unfamiliar areas. In a new leadership position, they will be slow to act like the boss, but once they have been boss long enough to be comfortable, they will likely be an able boss. Otherwise, “do not like new. They do not like changes. Change equals stress to them.†Again, very compatible with an Si preference. They need time to move into unfamiliar areas, or in type function lingo, to build the internal storehouse of concrete (tangible, “at handâ€) data Si operates off of.
In the area of Affection, something I don’t remember spelled out elsewhere, that both “Melvin Melancholy and Eric Choleric initiate love, affection, approval and recognition in order to get what they want. It is sort of a trade; I will give you what you want IF you will give me what I want.â€
What should also, in passing be pointed out, regarding the Melancholy and Sanguine in all the areas, is “indirect behaviorâ€. Now, from what I learned in the old APS literature, Sanguine, Phlegmatic and Melancholy, whose expressed and wanted scores were congruent (both high, medium or low) were “directâ€; expressing what they want, and wanting what they express. Choleric and Supine were the indirect ones, expressing and wanting differently (one high and the other low). However, this book is calling the Melancholy and Sanguine “indirect†too.
However, this is based on a point that everyone really has the same needs, such as interaction with others, affection, recognition and independence. The Sanguine in Control conveys little need of recognition, though has a lot of this need, and the Melancholy conveys little need of any interaction, though still has it. So “Want†simply refers to the typical way the temperament goes about getting their need met, while “need†in that respect is a basic human need. The Melancholy says “I don’t wantâ€, and truly in his mind doesn’t want, yet the underlying need is still there. They “do not need a high amount of appreciation [and thus it wasn't mentioned for them in other APS material), but when this need is not being met(which indirect behavior causes) they do feel people are taking advantage and resentment begins to build."
So e/w is congruent, yet there's still an indirectness. The difference from the Supine is that the latter knows he needs interaction (hence high "want") but still doesn't express this need, and then hopes others "read his mind" and come to give it to him, which they likely won't. So he's truly "indirect" in a greater sense.
The Phlegmatic in Control's strengths are "Practical", "Conservative", "Peace-loving", "An efficient peace maker/arbitrator".While two of these sound like the NF, the other two sound more SJ, as does this description:
It then goes into the "peace" traits, but a part of this is "Phoebe Phlegmatic...does not get too emotionally attached to the people involved in the dispute. She is able to clearly look at the whole picture from different points of view. She does not take sides. She is able to stay neutral". Later, in addressing weaknesses: "Logical reasoning and positive reinforcement are the two motivators in Phil and Phoebe Phlegmatic’s lives that will actually change behaviors."The Phlegmatic in Control is not the person with off the wall, out in left field ideas. Phil Phlegmatic does not suggest tearing down the 150 seat auditorium and building a church seating 5,000 because “God is going to send them in†when Sunday School is running 52. He will suggest practical and conservative ways to find Sunday School classrooms space. He will figure out how to incorporate the existing structure into the building project. He knows what can be done to keep costs down. He likes usable space instead of showy space.
Phil Phlegmatic is conservative. He is not going to be driving a Cadillac on a Chevy’s budget. He lives within his means. He does not get extravagant too often. The carpet in his office is nice, not too plush, and long wearing. He feels the boys can continue to share a bedroom instead of buying a larger house he cannot comfortably afford. After all, the kids will be gone someday and then he will have to downsize anyway. He does not own many risky stocks. He does not take risks in business. He does not own too many work suits, and is seldom flashy
"If he recognizes there is a problem and he can be a part of the solution, logical reasoning is a motivator. At this point, presenting factual information and end results will help Phil Phlegmatic find great answers. Facts and results: if you continue down the path you have chosen, the results will be thus. However, if you choose to go down this path over here, the results will be these."
Now all of this sounds almost like typical NT descriptions. Though the NT's motive is not said to be "peace". They are "strategic" rather than "diplomatic" according to Keirsey. HOWEVER:
Now this sounds a bit more like NF again.I have found a better motivator than logical reasoning – positive reinforcement. Most Phlegmatics who are forced into my office for counseling are not ready to be motivated by logical reasoning. After all, the Phlegmatic does not have the problem, the other person does.
At this point, Phlegmatics are not open to suggestions about anything they might do to help the condition. Logical reasoning requires them to at least consider different behavior/results possibilities. Positive reinforcement does not need their cooperation at all.
So it sounds like Phlegmatic in Control has traits of three of Keirsey's temperaments (everything but the SP). In my theory, Phlegmatic should hypothetically be "XXXX". When someone on a blog suggested this years ago, this was when I set out to create the "81 Types" idea (and someone in this forum came up with a "76 Types" version), which sought to add a third pole to the four dichotomies. However, I found that this does not work with the cognitive functions type is based on since they are "either/or" in introversion or extraversion, and basically abandoned the idea.
So Phlegmatic then would seem to be possibly the most moderate form of any type, and can be any of Keirsey's temperaments (though it would fit NF the most and SP the least).
The weaknesses then go into the stubborn resistance to change and the non-involvement, and indecisiveness, and eventually, the dry humor.
It also mentions the Phlegmatic having a need of appreciation, which I had never seen in APS literature. It seemed only the Sanguine, Supine and Choleric had a high need there.