Book Club: Anathem Discussion

[Aquarelle]

It's the 15th!! Did we all make it through part 4? If not, no worries - join in on what you have read or jump in later. I ended up getting through part 5 - it does move a bit faster as the book goes on.

So, let's discuss! What are your impressions so far? What do you like or dislike about the book?

Some other ideas to get the discussion started:
-The clock/clocks in general/time. They seem to be important. What is their significance?
-Since this is TypoC... what types do you think the main characters are?
-The Dictionary: Why do we get certain definitions at certain times, sometimes long after the concept has been introduced and we've already looked it up in the glossary anyway. The author must have done this deliberately... why, do you think?

Those are just some things I've been pondering while reading... feel free to ignore them or throw out your own questions/ideas.

 

[Qlip]

This is going to be hard for me because I've read it all the way through for the second time and I can't remember where chapter 4 ends. I don't want to get ahead of the discussion. I think I'm going to hang back a bit.

 

[Randomnity]

I really enjoyed the book. It isn't what I'd usually pick up and I might have quit trying to get through the first bit if it hadn't been for a book club (although even in the beginning I liked his writing style - he really brought it to life). The extensive philosophy parts (mostly later in the book - sorry) bored me, although not as much as it ordinarily would so I guess mild props for him?

Parts 1-4 are really just setting the stage and introducing the characters. I think he does a good job of that. Although maybe he could have introduced new terms more gradually to make the reading go by easier. This book might have been better as a trilogy, even.

-The Dictionary: Why do we get certain definitions at certain times, sometimes long after the concept has been introduced and we've already looked it up in the glossary anyway. The author must have done this deliberately... why, do you think?

I pretty much ignored the definitions. It seems like early in the book, they came after the word had been used, but later in the book they were used more as a hint that the word would be somewhat important in the next bit. You could pick up the meaning of words from the context pretty well anyway. He sometimes even defined the words directly in the text.

I'm not sure what the meaning of the clock is. It seems to fit perfectly in that world, for some reason.

Types....not really sure. I mean, the whole mathic world is kinda (ridiculously) NT, I guess. There are probably other types, though. You also don't really know the characters until later in the book.

I'm bad at discussion apparently, lol.

 

[Qlip]

Yeah, I'm not sure the clock had any real 'symbolic meannig'. It's just the rock of the mathic world, needing accurate time in order to note accurate observations. I remember at this point in the book really being intrigued by the whole universe setup and wondering if it was supposed to be in our future, or an alternate universe where something had changed in history. I kept looking for some sort of corrolation between the history they had setup and our own.

 

[Aquarelle]

I really enjoyed the book. It isn't what I'd usually pick up and I might have quit trying to get through the first bit if it hadn't been for a book club (although even in the beginning I liked his writing style - he really brought it to life).

Same here - I don't usually read a lot of sci fi, so I probably never would have picked it up on my own. But I'm glad I'm reading it! I still have a lot to go - I just finished part 5 - but I'm really enjoying it.

The thing about the clock is that there are some really interesting times when it is mentioned. A few examples:

Page 57 (in my copy...), very beginning of part 2:

The last night of 3689 I dreamed that something was troubling Fraa Orolo, and that everyone had noticed, but on no account would he or anyone else speak of it openly. So it was a mystery. And yet everyone knew what it was: the planets were deviating from their courses, and the clock was wrong.

To me, the clock being wrong seems very trivial compared to the planets deviating from their courses. I get that the clock is a big deal in the mathic world, but I think it's almost a symbol FOR that world. Then this quote would mean something like, "The planets were deviating from their courses and everything was wrong in our world."

Another one, just a few pages later (61 in my copy):

All of the music was syncronized to the clock, which served as metronome and conductor.

If the clock serves as a metronome, that means that all of their music is at the same tempo. I mean, there could be one beat per second or 4 beats per second or whatever, but the second would always be the base. If that makes sense. I don't know what that means but something about the lack of deviation seems to say something about the way of life in the concent.

 

[AgentF]

i am still recovering from adventures last night. i shall submit my commentary a.s.a.h.p.

 

[Randomnity]

If the clock serves as a metronome, that means that all of their music is at the same tempo. I mean, there could be one beat per second or 4 beats per second or whatever, but the second would always be the base. If that makes sense. I don't know what that means but something about the lack of deviation seems to say something about the way of life in the concent.

Ah the music reference went over my head. Yes, I was also thinking that the clock could symbolize the "black and white"-ness of the world. But at the same time, it's not a complete analogy because in their world, different interpretations seem to be welcomed and seen as more or less equal....it's just the rules for actions that are black and white, not the rules for thought. Like once they've decided on something, it can't be changed, but up until that point great debate is to be had. I don't know if that's actually a meaningful distinction but it seems like it may be.

Another note: I really liked the way he designed his made-up words, with sort of connotations (I'm assuming it's intentional). Like avout brings to mind avowed/devout. Fraa, friar/frere, suur, sister/soeur. Saunt/savant, saint....etc.

edit: also like the clock, the avout "system" stays the same for a very long time (millennia), before eventually breaking down.

Question to think about: how religious are the avout, overall?

 

[Aquarelle]

Another note: I really liked the way he designed his made-up words, with sort of connotations (I'm assuming it's intentional). Like avout brings to mind avowed/devout. Fraa, friar/frere, suur, sister/soeur. Saunt/savant, saint....etc.

Yeah, I really like that too - saint+savant=saunt, concent is like a play on words between convent and concentric (circles), etc.

 

[Qlip]

Actually, now that I think of it, the clock has an overreaching purpose in the story (besides keeping time and stuff). I can't mention it now.

 

[NPcomplete]

I haven't been able to progress much into the book but from what I've seen, I really enjoyed the setting. I guess I enjoyed the process of imagining the workings of that world more than reading about it. I was intrigued by where that world stands with respect to our world but I suppose I need to read more.

Another thing I really enjoyed was deciphering the new words. I didn't read any of the definitions and didn't even flip to the glossary since I thought it would be a bit annoying (e-readers..sigh). It wasn't a big act of deciphering as such because there definitely were parallels between those words and words we use.

I must try to keep reading now.

 

[Aquarelle]

Where are all the peeps who voted for this book??

I've got some guesses on types:
Raz, I think, is an NF, of some kind.
Cord, I'm thinking ESTJ.
Jesry, ESTP

 

[Qlip]

Do we have a link to this thread on the original book club thread? Maybe they didn't see it.

 

[Randomnity]

Where are all the peeps who voted for this book??

I've got some guesses on types:
Raz, I think, is an NF, of some kind.
Cord, I'm thinking ESTJ.
Jesry, ESTP

Raz - IxxP of some sort, maybe. He doesn't come across as strongly anything. I could also see infj.
Cord - not sure. She comes across as S(J) but I think that may be influenced by growing up and living in a very S-seeming world (vs the far more N of the concent)
Jesry - will have to think about this one

Do you get to his female friends by part 4? I don't remember.

Honestly none of the characters were all that well fleshed-out, I thought. The story was far more concerned with the plot/theories underlying the plot.

 

[Aquarelle]

Do we have a link to this thread on the original book club thread? Maybe they didn't see it.

Good point. I'll link it.

 

[Patches]

Where are all the peeps who voted for this book??

I've got some guesses on types:
Raz, I think, is an NF, of some kind.
Cord, I'm thinking ESTJ.
Jesry, ESTP

I didn't even know you made a new thread. I rely primarily on subscriptions and live feed. So I didn't see it until now. You probably should have linked this from the other thread. I assumed the discussion would pop up in there.

I'd say STJ for Cord, too. I actually highlighted a section which said that one of the concepts was, "too abstract for Cord's taste" because I thought it applied to N vs S for her.

I also highlighted this: (When they ran into Arsibalt who had a bloody nose)

[...]she drew out blunt plugs of white fibrous stuff, about the size of her little finger, with strings trailing from them. "What on earth are those?" Arsibalt wanted to know.

"Blood soaker uppers," Cord said, "one for each nostril, if you would like."

Wtf.

 

[Qlip]

I didn't even know you made a new thread. I rely primarily on subscriptions and live feed. So I didn't see it until now. You probably should have linked this from the other thread. I assumed the discussion would pop up in there.

I'd say STJ for Cord, too. I actually highlighted a section which said that one of the concepts was, "too abstract for Cord's taste" because I thought it applied to N vs S for her.

I also highlighted this: (When they ran into Arsibalt who had a bloody nose)

Wtf.

hehe

 

[Aquarelle]

I didn't even know you made a new thread. I rely primarily on subscriptions and live feed. So I didn't see it until now. You probably should have linked this from the other thread. I assumed the discussion would pop up in there.

Sorry. I said I'd make a new thread for the discussion. But it's linked in the original thread now. I'll know for next time.

I also highlighted this: (When they ran into Arsibalt who had a bloody nose)

Wtf.

I know! Hahah

 

[InvisibleJim]

I'm going to hang back; because I finished the book 2 weeks ago and also because I found everything before Part 5: Voco slightly dull. Although I do understand the necessity of 'more thorough' background given to the slower readers, for someone who is more used to this righting style it did feel somewhat like babying, only slightly improved due to the visual imagery (particularly as pointed out - regarding the clocks). Moreover I'm concerned that many of the contributions in regards to typing book characters given are mostly based upon whimiscal projection and very few references from the book itself. Indeed I understand that it may be a tricky book to many members, but despite the slow pace this task has been tackled with I don't feel it does the book or the characters proper justice to simply take a very small portion of the book and to make decisions on that basis.

I will explain the significance of the clocks later once you reach the end of Part 11 and see the significance of the clock as a symbol to the Millenarian Incanters/Rhetors - when they identify convergence and the resulting polycosmic manipulation.

Besides, if you haven't completed the book then you haven't even met the two most INTJ characters yet.

 

[Aquarelle]

Has everyone finished the book except me? If so, feel free to discuss the book in its entirety. I'm getting close to the end... should be done in a few days. I'll just stay out of this thread until then.

But, Jim, my typings weren't based on whims... they were very much based on passages from the text; I just didn't quote them because I was at work when I posted. I'll post them later. And I'm not finding this to be a "tricky" book.... just long. I have a full time job, family obligations, and am working very actively on my Masters thesis, so I don't have a whole lot of free time to devote to reading the book.

 

[Aquarelle]

I've got some guesses on types:
Raz, I think, is an NF, of some kind.
Cord, I'm thinking ESTJ.
Jesry, ESTP

my typings weren't based on whims... they were very much based on passages from the text; I just didn't quote them because I was at work when I posted. I'll post them later.

I refuse to let this book club die without a fight!!

Here are the reasons for my attempt at typing some of the characters:

-On my page 70:

"Well, I was oblivious to all that Warden of Heaven stuff," Jesry concluded. "I've been very busy computing for Orolo's group."
"Why did you think Tamura was drilling us last night?" I asked.
"I didn't think about it," Jesry said. "All I can say is, it's good you are around to be aware of all this."

This passage shows me 2 things:
1. Jesry takes thing sat face value, and doesn't read into them or overthink them. Probably S.
2. Raz DOES "read between the lines," and furthermore, he's known as someone who "is aware of things." Probably N.

-My page 188: Raz mentions how he felt like he could talk to Tulia about his feelings. Which means he wants to discuss his feelings: F. (Tulia's response indicates that she might NOT actually be someone who wants to talk about feelings, but I haven't found sufficient grounds to really try to type her.)

-On my page 98:

In fact she spent so much time working out how the clock functioned

"She" refers to Cord. All of her technical savvy and fascination with the way things work and how to build/repair them makes me think she's STJ. And she just seems more extroverted, so I tacked an E onto that.

I'm still not sure about Lio, but here are some passages that stand out to me about him:
-On my page 9:

Lio had a funny mind that sometimes did not respond to words.

Inventing ways to wrap the bolt & chord
-On my page 19:

Lio cam up and stood too close behind me.