Better Call Saul (spoilers)

[violett]

That's a shame.
This one is actually good and works on its own.

(Occasionally a Frasier comes along.)

Yes, but it doesn't happen often.

 

[Totenkindly]

Some predictable but still great Mike action this episode -- he's just such a great character. I also appreciated having seen him deal with Walt in BB, then deal with this guy here. Very interesting comparison and contrast, and his whole speech on good/bad criminals.

However, the big thing: The last five minutes. Heart-rending. I think I gasped out loud once or twice. Bob Odenkirk really is so good (and Michael McKean is as well, but Odenkirk just really inhabits this role so perfectly).

Season finale next week.

 

[Totenkindly]

Pretty accurate review:
Better Call Saul: "Pimento" Review - IGN

I usually don't post open spoilers until 24 hours have passed, so I'll spoiler it... I just have to talk about this one.

The revelation last night really put a huge spin on things -- and you could probably sense it coming, but now it's completely out in the open whereas before it was swimming murkily under cloudy water and all you could see was the tip of the fin.

Hamlin -- while he doesn't much like Jimmy -- hasn't even really been the problem even if Jimmy views him as Satan and his ultimate nemesis and Hamlin actually doesn't much like Jimmy. In terms of Jimmy's future at HHM, Hamlin's just been the puppet whose strings ultimately have been pulled... by Chuck. Yes, big brother Chuck has been driving Jimmy's dashed prospects at the lawfirm that even shares a piece of his name, THEIR name.

Chuck, who has a certain view of his little brother and can't get past it because it will shake him up at a time in his life when he himself is struggling with certain mental infirmities. For Jimmy to succeed means that Chuck is "less than" he though, and so Jimmy must never succeed... must never be taken seriously.

I think what makes it devastating is that it's clear that on some level Chuck does love Jimmy, they ARE brothers; at the same time, there's a lot of resentment, disgust, and non-acceptance of Jimmy as a human being that Chuck hasn't shaken and seems unwilling to. And... while Jimmy is being viewed as "less than," a lawyer who is like a "chimpanzee with a machine gun," what we the audience have seen is that Jimmy is a better man than Chuck. This guy who ends up a "CRIMINAL laywer" (versus a criminal's lawyer) in BB actually has quite a heart, and it's clear he loves and idolizes his older brother and has worlds of patience and respect for him. Jimmy adores Chuck, and so much of his behavior is driven both by a need to get his brother's approval as well as his actual affection, especially in a time when Chuch has been brough so low and isolated by his illness.

Do we see Hamlin and Associates come by to visit Chuck? No. Anyone in general? No. It's Jimmy. Jimmy who brings him his food, his news, human companionship, who has tolerated his crazy bullshit illness and psychotic behavior, who is SO very patient with him and slowly tries to coax him out of the literal darkness, who doesn't give up on Chuck. It's been Jimmy, and it's not something we got to see nearly as much in BB although often the way that Saul would intervene between Jesse and Walt suggests he actually does have a heart; Saul was never ruthless, he just was a dodger and huckster. He never wanted to hurt anyone.

Anyway, here we see the tender side of Jimmy -- he loved his brother and could tolerate almost anything (which kind of explains how Walt was so easily able to victimize him at times) -- and so it is absolutely devasting when we along with Jimmy finally come to realization that the one person Jimmy adores and has given so much to and whose respect he desires is the one person who will never ever give it, simply because he's selfish and cowardly.

So now it all makes sense. Hamlin is angry because he wants the damn case, but Chuck won't let him take Jimmy on in order to get it; so then he is treating everyone like shit because he's frustrated that Chuck is complicating things and also because he's stuck playing the "heavy" because Chuck never had the balls to just do it himself. Meanwhile, Kim really is Jimmy's friend and proves it here -- she encourages to do what is best for him in the long run, while not wanting to break his heart by telling him about Chuck's duplicity. "Just take the money, Jimmy." Even after Jimmy says some pretty nasty stuff to her, she sticks to her guns... because she knows Jimmy is just upset, doesn't mean it in the end (she's right -- he spends all night thinking about what she said, until he figures it out), and because she wants him to get through this with the money and his dignity intact.

It's pretty clear that this is a hugely decisive moment for Jimmy and has huge ramifications. It makes sense that he would change his name -- he will want nothing to do with Chuck, while "punishing himself" at the same time by taking away the name he doesn't apparently 'deserve". And much of his "going good" was to please Chuck, to make him happy; since Chuck thinks so little of him, there's no reason to try anymore and meanwhile he's just again becoming what Chuck expects of him, he's still Chuck's thrall in a sense.

I found myself really angry watching that last five minutes, as well as devastated for Jimmy. He was so angry and so heartbroken at once, and Chuck wasn't just being a coward -- he wasn't even being rationally fair. Regardless of the school Jimmy attended, he passed the bar. On his own. He failed twice, but many do; but in the end, he actually passed the test, so regardless of the school he still knows his law and thus has been judged competent. And he's a street-smart lawyer, not a hack; maybe his formal case style sucks, but he's willing to get down and dirty and do what it takes to win... the poor down-on-his-luck Irish scrapper who might be smaller than the other kids, but never ever gives up.

Chuck's an ass. He despised a brother who has cared for him when everyone else gave up on him, and instead of supporting him, he kicked his feet out from under him when Jimmy tried to "do right" and be more than who he was. What a dick.

--

I think it also highlights the Walt/Jimmy difference again. Walt was someone who looked good on the surface but had some rot in his heart, and he doesn't quail at inflicting violence (physical or emotional) on others as his outer and inner start to align.

Jimmy looked shady on the surface but always had a good heart, but getting kicked around by the people / things that mattered most to him dragged his expectations for himself down to the dirt. He's still a good guy under all the mud, though. Which is why he is likeable.

 

[Jet Stream]

I will never like this show. Breaking Bad was too good, way too good in fact, to have a spinoff. Spinoffs should exist only to redeem lesser shows, not drain a certain element of imagination and mystery from elite ones. And Saul Goodman is such a great character! What a pity.

 

[Totenkindly]

I will never like this show. Breaking Bad was too good, way too good in fact, to have a spinoff. Spinoffs should exist only to redeem lesser shows, not drain a certain element of imagination and mystery from elite ones. And Saul Goodman is such a great character! What a pity.

Did you actually watch it?
Or is this just some form of television activism?

I think calling it a "spinoff" is highly trivializing/marginalizing the show and not a term I'd use for it, after having seen all the current episodes.

 

[ceecee]

I will never like this show. Breaking Bad was too good, way too good in fact, to have a spinoff. Spinoffs should exist only to redeem lesser shows, not drain a certain element of imagination and mystery from elite ones. And Saul Goodman is such a great character! What a pity.

You mean Jimmy McGill. I don't think you have watched it because if you did, you would know that. I don't think it's even a spinoff, it's it's own show. It's a great show, better than BB even.

The old cop is so cool.

Agreed but in the back of my mind, he will always be this guy from Beverly Hills Cop.

 

[Totenkindly]

Wow. You mean he had hair, once upon a time? LMFAO.

 

[Jet Stream]

You mean Jimmy McGill. I don't think you have watched it because if you did, you would know that. I don't think it's even a spinoff, it's it's own show. It's a great show, better than BB even.




Agreed but in the back of my mind, he will always be this guy from Beverly Hills Cop.

I've known the characters real name sine BB thank you very much. His alias is just what I will be forever used to calling him. And for the record I've seen 1 solitary episode. Left me dry, though of course my preconceived prejudices played into that, not ashamed to admit it.

 

[Jet Stream]

Did you actually watch it?
Or is this just some form of television activism?

I think calling it a "spinoff" is highly trivializing/marginalizing the show and not a term I'd use for it, after having seen all the current episodes.

To your question: the latter for the most part lol

To your statement: Maybe so, but officially speaking and judging by how it has been advertised, it is indeed a spinoff.

 

[chickpea]

'SALL GOOD, MAN

 

[swordpath]

 

[Eluded_One]

The show is starting out really good. I hope the writers get enough time to keep the the creative content consistent. It's a matter of time before the grabbing hands grab what they can. Which is quite ironic for a show about cons and lawyers.

 

[Frosty]

I really like this show actually. I think that it is really great how they were able to keep the same characters, and keep them in line with how they were in breaking bad, but also showcase and develop lesser sides of them.

Although Breaking Bad definatly could have stood on its own, they did a pretty good job with this series. They were able to play in the same world but give it its own personality and feel so to say. They changed things enough to be interesting, but kept the familiarity the had the audience so encaptured with Breaking Bad.

I might be biased though, Mike and Saul were pretty much my favorite characters from BB.

 

[Totenkindly]

Season 2 Finished

Another season aired and done. The show just seems to get stronger. It typically doesn't rely on cheap thrills and somehow makes even the "boring" parts of lawyering interesting mainly because of the character interplay and taking the unconventional route. It's an example of how to handle a "prequel" style show where the general main outcome is known [AKA obviously Mike and Saul survive to become what we see in Breaking Bad] but the route taken and the fate of characters missing from Breaking Bad are not known and therein lies the journey.

The largest thing you come away with after two seasons is that Jimmy McGill (AKA Saul) is shady on the surface and gets a rush out of making a con -- he keeps trying to go straight and be socially acceptable, yet just can't deny who he is at core -- but inside he's actually got a good heart, even when he's been (as his ex-boss once said) an "asshole." He typically targets people who are greedy or shady themselves and meanwhile seems to extend himself for the people he cares about regardless of what they might have done to him + the weak and unfortunate who have nowhere else to turn. He seems to possess real patience with the elderly, for example, even when he finds them frustrating. And of course he will do anything for Kim. (It makes what he becomes in Breaking Bad seem sadder; something gets broken along the way, Saul Goodman is never "wicked" like Walt but seems to have merely settled for the surface-level shade and lost whatever optimism was driving him.)

But even with his brother Chuck, you really see the depths of what Jimmy will go to because he adores his older brother, who from his end loathes him. Jimmy wants Chuck's devotion and praise, which is something Chuck has refused to give regardless of Jimmy's sacrifices. We find out various reasons why this is so (along with the actual personality clashes between them). It all unfolds organically, and the way the two of them do this dance (which at times feels like a sick dance) defines their natures strongly. Jimmy is surface-shady but with a good-natured gooey center, while Chuck aside from his chronic disabling repulsion to electricity looks like the measure of competence and success but inside houses something darker than you'd expect, expressed through a continual ugly streak of sanctimony. Both viewpoints are understandable, but one brother is far more forgiving than the other.

The end of Season 2 really anchors this in place. I won't spoil it, but I had a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach in the final seconds of the finale. It was a masterful stroke both of acting and storytelling, and I think it's a character-defining moment for both men how s2e10 plays out and summarizing everything I would ever need to know about each as a human being. Season 3 is going to be a descent for at least some of the characters; the trail of tears has begun.

 

[Riva]

Watched the season 2 and finished it. Only watched Mike's parts.

Can't help but feel we know what's going to happen to Soul. He is somehow going to mess things up with the law which would eventually force him to end things with the beautiful lawyer lady and he would move out of the city or somethings along those lines. So I avoided watching any of his parts and it seems like I was right.

Frankly Soul's parts are too different from what of Breaking Bad though it knows how to add suspense whenever it wants to. Mike's parts however screams Breaking Bad.

Mike is like the real life Bat Man.

 

[Totenkindly]

Watched the season 2 and finished it. Only watched Mike's parts.

Can't help but feel we know what's going to happen to Soul. He is somehow going to mess things up with the law which would eventually force him to end things with the beautiful lawyer lady and he would move out of the city or somethings along those lines. So I avoided watching any of his parts and it seems like I was right.

if you're skipping over Jimmy McGill, you're missing some excellent acting work by Rhea Seehorn (Kim) and Mike McKean (Chuck). Besides, it's also like not reading The Lord of the Rings because you know someone is going to destroy the Ring. Duh. It's how things get there that is the story. I think the Jimmy McGill stuff is actually more painful to watch than the Mike stuff, in terms of the emotional damage and violence that occurs between Jimmy and Chuck. There's a really strong sense that, while Jimmy always had a shady side to him, a lot of his slide into moral apathy (where he is at Breaking Bad time) occurred because of how he was dismissed, undermined, and taken advantage of by Chuck all these years.

Frankly Soul's parts are too different from what of Breaking Bad though it knows how to add suspense whenever it wants to. Mike's parts however screams Breaking Bad.

Mike is like the real life Bat Man.

Mike's interesting in that a lot of what he does is also meant for family (his granddaughter and daughter in law). In that sense, he's like Walt, except I think Walt was in denial he was going bad + Walt always lied and said it was about his family whereas a lot of it was about him feeling in control and feeling significant; for Mike, a lot more of it really IS about his granddaughter. He reminds me a bit of Mike Sullivan in "Road to Perdition" -- he knows he's damned because of all the blood on his hands, but he willingly takes on more so that his son will never have to. Anyway, Mike here ends up working for Gus at some point, and we see a bit of a hint about how that might happen at the end of Season 2.

 

[ceecee]

The end of Season 2 really anchors this in place. I won't spoil it, but I had a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach in the final seconds of the finale. It was a masterful stroke both of acting and storytelling, and I think it's a character-defining moment for both men how s2e10 plays out and summarizing everything I would ever need to know about each as a human being. Season 3 is going to be a descent for at least some of the characters; the trail of tears has begun.

When - "CHUCK! You fucking asshole!" came out of my mouth in the last seconds of the finale, it was with the full knowledge that this or something like this would happen. I, too, believe that the trail of tears has begun. All and all, I love this show. I felt that way with Season 1 and even more in Season 2.

 

[Totenkindly]

Great LONG Con interview with a number of the cast, etc. Great background material and actor/writer exposition on the series.

http://www.vulture.com/2016/08/better-call-saul-emmy-insider-2016.html

 

[ceecee]

Great LONG Con interview with a number of the cast, etc. Great background material and actor/writer exposition on the series.

http://www.vulture.com/2016/08/better-call-saul-emmy-insider-2016.html

Have you seen the little coffee n chat thing they have on AMC after the show? It's very insightful but those guys (Vince and Peter) have to know that fans will dissect anything they do that's clever. It appears that Gus Fring will be in Season 3 too. The only bad thing about this show is having to wait for the new season.

'Better Call Saul' season 3 spoilers, air date: Bob Odenkirk confirms arrival of iconic 'Breaking Bad' villain

 

[Totenkindly]

Have you seen the little coffee n chat thing they have on AMC after the show? It's very insightful but those guys (Vince and Peter) have to know that fans will dissect anything they do that's clever. It appears that Gus Fring will be in Season 3 too. The only bad thing about this show is having to wait for the new season.

'Better Call Saul' season 3 spoilers, air date: Bob Odenkirk confirms arrival of iconic 'Breaking Bad' villain

I haven't tended to watch the after-show stuff (like Talking Dead too), but now I'm wondering whether I should.

Some people did not take to BCS; but for me, this show (and Mr. Robot) are among my top show picks that I'm currently viewing (ahead of more popular shows like Walking Dead, GoT, etc.). It's similar to Breaking Bad that way: It's just so thoughtfully put together, on EVERY level, and there's a consistency to it that is possibly unrivalled compared to other popular shows I've mentioned.