Astrology - Are you a believer?

[Little_Sticks]

As someone who has been known to read people's cards for them as a hobby, I'd have to say that a good tarot reader is reading their victim/customer as opposed to really reading the cards... the cards are kind of like a rorschach patterns in a way

a skilled reading of someone's chart generally appears to work the same way

But isn't this the real reason people love that stuff? No one really cares whether or not it can be proven or not, they just want to learn something about themselves that they didn't think they were aware of. Whether it's grounded in reality only depends on how grounded the customer is. The more imaginative the customer, the more insightful the reading to them, and humans are quite an imaginative bunch, thankfully.

 

[miss fortune]

it is... give the person what they want and they'll come back... basic principle of human interaction

 

[Jaguar]

it is... give the person what they want and they'll come back... basic principle of human interaction

I give people the truth and they run.

 

[miss fortune]

people don't want the truth silly!

they wish to be soothed with sweet, sweet lies... and sometimes they want us to talk dirty to them


** whatever's listening to 80s music at the moment**

 

[Ming]

But isn't this the real reason people love that stuff? No one really cares whether or not it can be proven or not, they just want to learn something about themselves that they didn't think they were aware of. Whether it's grounded in reality only depends on how grounded the customer is. The more imaginative the customer, the more insightful the reading to them, and humans are quite an imaginative bunch, thankfully.

 

[Ming]

I am living proof that astrology is just a load of superstition.

That avatar really scares me.

Haha, Life's a superstition you know that? Where did we come from?

 

[Resonance]

That avatar really scares me.

Haha, Life's a superstition you know that? Where did we come from?

Our mothers' vaginas.

 

[Within]

That avatar really scares me.

Haha, Life's a superstition you know that? Where did we come from?

You again?! Seems that it's me who's trespassing this time.

edit: what is wrong with my face?

 

[Weber]

Btw, to the smart guy with 31 posts: watch who the fuck you're playing with.

There's fire here.

Is that supposed to be a threat? My point is that most of the objections to astrology have absolutely nothing to do with having faith. What do the posters in question have faith in, exactly? That astrology is not valid? Like how we have "faith" in the non-existence of fairies?

I smell trouble cooking on the weber grill.

Would you believe me if I told you that you're the first person to make a grill joke? Good; you're not

 

[Jaguar]

Would you believe me...

No.

 

[Zarathustra]

Is that supposed to be a threat? My point is that most of the objections to astrology have absolutely nothing to do with having faith. What do the posters in question have faith in, exactly? That astrology is not valid? Like how we have "faith" in the non-existence of fairies?

It's a warning. Not a threat.

Have you read the entire thread?

Btw, you used the wrong word. "Valid" does not fit there.

You meant to say "sound". Or "true".

If you really think you can invalidate astrology -- that is, find a logical inconsistency in it -- then we can just stop this argument here, because you'd obviously be a moron.

 

[Zarathustra]

p.s. You may not have seen this part (there is a lot of highly relevant argumentation there), as a certain mod decided to massacre this thread without understanding what she was removing.

 

[Jaguar]

p.s. You may not have seen this part (there is a lot of highly relevant argumentation there), as a certain mod decided to massacre this thread without understanding what she was removing.

She must have reeeeeally tripped your trigger. You're still bitching about the "massacre."
Good to see you here, Z.

 

[Sunny Ghost]

I'm not really sure what's going on in this thread now... but to go back to the original question: Yes! I am a believer. Your magazine and newspaper horoscopes are more than likely bullshit, though can still be entertaining. But, we all know the moon and the tides have an effect on life on earth, so why not the planets and stars? I also read a really interesting book a few summers back, that discussed karma and astrology. Depending on the past karmas, you are born unto a particular day with a particular alignment with others of similar karmic imprints. It was a very interesting perspective.

One thing I am curious of, is mbti and zodiac signs. I'm an ISFP and an aries in the western/tropical zodiac, or a pisces in the sidereal zodiac. I wonder how many people with similar birthdays with have similar personality types. Or if, instead, we aren't necessarily born with a similar personality, but given different "tools" (personalities) and are suppose to learn to deal with the same path using our various tools.

 

[Zarathustra]

But isn't this the real reason people love that stuff? No one really cares whether or not it can be proven or not, they just want to learn something about themselves that they didn't think they were aware of. Whether it's grounded in reality only depends on how grounded the customer is. The more imaginative the customer, the more insightful the reading to them, and humans are quite an imaginative bunch, thankfully.

This is an important point, actually.

Same one I was making earlier about the three types of truth.

If it works, it works.

It's logically consistent.

And who knows (and should care, if it works and is logically consistent) about the representational truth of it.

 

[Zarathustra]

"Imagination is more important than knowledge..."

- Albert Einstein

 

[Zarathustra]

“Anyone can be a millionaire, but to become a billionaire you need an astrologer.”

- J.P. Morgan

 

[ragashree]

There are three kinds of truth: representational, internally consistent, and pragmatic.

I do not believe in or not believe in the representational truth of astrology. I am simply open-minded to it.

Having studied astrology, I have found it to be surprisingly internally consistent. One could set up a straw man against, but then one is just setting up a straw man. If you try to argue against the very strongest argument in favor of astrology, it's really not easy to invalidate it.

I do, however, believe in its pragmatic truth.

That is what you are pointing to here.

And it is a respectable point.

I'm actually a bit tired on this thread of trying to underline the differences for people who can't see them Just in case anyone is interested, I'll link one of my graveyarded posts,which deals with the issue at some length: http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...btw-thread-about-astrology-8.html#post1136895

 

[Zarathustra]

You can lead a horse to water...

 

[Ming]

Sorry to bump this back up; I actually read those SOME of those HORRIFICALLY LONG AND BORING posts, and wrote down a few of those points which interested me; I've got 5 actually. Now I'm going to make one of my own to reflect upon this entire thread.

Number 1 Astrology is to 'look for self'.
Agreed. But isn't anything else? What is 'self'? Did we come in with a 'self', or did we perceive the world, then built our own morals?

Number 2 Astrology's 'validity'
I agree that astrology scientifically is not 'valid'. But then what is 'valid'? I don't understand how people can say something is 'not valid' without knowing what is valid.

It's confusing, because life has so much contradictions. Scientists used to say the Earth is square, then poof, the Earth becomes round. Scientists used to say that atom is the smallest unit of matter possible, and then poof, here comes the proton, electrons and neutrons.

Who is to say what is to come? Nobody is 'valid'. If you say something is 'valid', then aren't you using 'judgement' in a sense? But if you are using judgement, then you are not really making a decision, based on both sides; but instead you are just pushing your own morals forward?

Number 3 Astrology, is it a science?
Science is the 'observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena'.

Can astrology fit into that criteria? I say yes.

I think life itself can fit into that category. Anything can fit into that category, now that I think about it. A 'definition' to me seems to be a restriction in life; it's like going 'hey, Science has to be this, and not that'. Then what's the point in moving forward? If you only restrict yourself.

Does it even matter if astrology is a science? If it is, does that mean society will accept it? Does something being a 'science' make it acceptable to everyone?

Number 4 Astrology is 'pretentious'.
Then what is the 'truth'? The word 'truth' itself is unclear. How can you state something as 'pretentious'?

Do we somehow have a 'correct' way of living?

Oh wait, if I use correct, that means something has to be wrong.

Wait, but then how do we know what is right, and what is wrong?

See how it all just ends in contradictions going forwards and backwards?

Life itself is 'pretentious' then. Anything is 'pretentious'.

Number 5 How do different planetary positions affect your personality?
I don't know. What am I to say?

Where did we come from? How did we originate? Was it revolution, or was it God?

Are there smaller things than the smallest things? Can we grow wings? Can blah blah blah happen?

Nobody says you have to stick to astrology like glue. I just 'believe' it, and is willing to accept it. It might seem false, but I'm not willing to close off the countless possibilities attached to this subject.

That doesn't mean I have to force astrology on someone. I never have.

That doesn't mean I'm 'delusional' or anything. If I'm 'delusional', then what is not? Everyone is 'delusional'. Life itself is a 'delusion'. What is 'delusion'?

All this contradictions then comes up.

It all is just a big headache.