Astrology - Are you a believer?

[Speed Gavroche]

Whole of text

Simulated world, what we can retain from your post is that the description of you your Sun sign and of your Moon sign hit well with you but not the description of your ascendant. The problem is that we need a very precise time of birth to find your true ascendant. I have seen your astral theme, and your ascendant is almost in Gemini, actually, your ascendant is probaly really in Gemini, but your time of birth is not enough precise and an error of just a few minute can change everything with the ascendant (but not with the Sun sign and the Moon sign). One problem and error source, is that in can pass some minutes between you actual time of birth and the time where the doctors register your time of birth watching their watch. My ENFP young brother had the same problem, with his official time of birth, he's ascendant Cancer, but it's an error of a few minutes and within a few minutes, he's ascendant Gemini.

Myself, I have my sun sign in Taurus and the description hit with me. But I would be very surprised to see an ENFP with an ascendant in Cancer (wich sounds ISFJ) or an ENTP with his ascendant in Taurus (wich sounds ISTJ), I guess it's due to an error of a few minutes in your true time of birth. But the ascendant Gemini definitely match with Ne-dom. The ares sign sounds really ExTx for me. I have match the Ares sun sign with ESTP and ENTJ, but your ascendant and your Moon in Gemini make you prone to be more versatile and in a Getting-Things-Going interaction style. Very ENTP if we make the synthesis. Here is the description of the Ares ascendant Gemini:

Aries Ascendant Gemini
Would you be a little intrusive? In any case, these two signs have in common the need to go for meet the world and peoples: it is hard to stop you in your insatiable quest to overcome obstacles, the boundaries that separate them. As a Gemini, you are light and scattered, versatile and chameleon, but you would like to be clearer in your thoughts and your projects, you who take so much pride as an Ares to know what you want! In any case, your reactions are epidermal and it is hard to leave you cold. You've also probably a tendency to intellectualize, to neglect your inner life, your moods. Impulsive - Aries and Gemini are the faster signs of the zodiac- and individualistic when it knows you, you are being more flexible and communicative at first. A mischievous imp side with a heart beating.

So much ENTP!

 

[MacabreCharade]

Also, Sim, just wanted to get this out there before I attempt to fall asleep again.

Regarding the "time-space twins" experiment: the problem I see with it is that astrology (at least the type I'm open to) merely points to the archetypal energies that will manifest themselves in a person's life. It doesn't discount the effect that biology (nature) or upbringing (nurture) will have on a person's identity.

If two "time-space twins" are very differently genetically, they may have similar archetypal energies underlying much of their motivation, but their natural genetic abilities and traits, the things they experience during their life, and the choices they end up making, all will combine to make them likely different enough such that even testing
"time-space twins" is probably a flawed methodology.

That's the counterargument I'd come up with long before you ever sent me this study...

My father and aunt were born pretty much at the same moment and in the same city, only different hospitals. And no, they're not genetically related.
They're fairly similar, I've been keeping my eye on them and their interests and behaviour are honestly really the same. Though, I guess the genderal and genetical differences are enough to make some changes.

 

[Ming]

My father and aunt were born pretty much at the same moment and in the same city, only different hospitals. And no, they're not genetically related.
They're fairly similar, I've been keeping my eye on them and their interests and behaviour are honestly really the same. Though, I guess the genderal and genetical differences are enough to make some changes.

Really? By the difference of how many hours?

 

[MacabreCharade]

Really? By the difference of how many hours?

Pretty much at the same moment. Possibly a minute or few.
And them knowing each other happened about two decades later, so it was completely unintentional that they would ever meet.
And, in addition, they're also born on Christmas day. I'm not kidding, I checked up on their birth certificates for all of this.

 

[tinkerbell]

LOL Thanks Peacebaby for this....

Actually Ming, I only skimmed the first page...

Newspaper astrology is actualyl totally acurate if done properly.

Aires chart is cast for 0 dgrees aries rising, hence the predictions are based on where the planets are in the various houses fro the time period. It is the Aries chart and transits.

Same for taurs = 0 degrees taurus rising.

Have a play:
lay astrology scopes side by side with one another by different authors and you ougt to find similar reading or reasonably discussions of similar events, particularly big dates.

Enjoy your chat, glad to see someone is keeping the subject on the board

Hi to all - been a wee bit busy

Lis

 

[PeaceBaby]

You know what's funny ... I actually support your position Z, but you didn't notice, obviously.

- which is to say, I support using your own brain to figure out your own opinion.

And the arguments overall in this thread are unconvincing and weak - that's all I'm saying. As far as writing to convince others of your position, a paper or treatise is generally considered of lesser quality when it relies on fallacious arguments. But maybe that's part of the whole game here and I'm missing it.

I would like to see someone REALLY argue for the validity of astrology. THAT would be interesting.

OR, someone rip into astrology with every piece of scientific data at their fingertips. THAT would be interesting too!

------

Edit: Saying this re aga's post is just ... Z, it sucks:

If I were sitting at home all day doing nothing I would annihilate her retarded tertiary Ti posts.

She's not even worth my time.

You say some interesting stuff, then undermine your integrity with posts like that.

And your continual dismissals of Victor - you know, hidden in Victor's posts are occasional gems of wisdom; it would be wise to accept them as they are and move on rather than deride them. You should realize when to pick your battles.

 

[PeaceBaby]

^ To add: the question in this thread is, "Do you believe in astrology?"

"Yes" or "No" or "not sure". So if you say yes, why do you believe what you believe? No, why?

Why can't there just be an interesting discussion here?

I've got a great idea - "Tonight, on the NT Channel, Debating ... Astrology! Set your Egos and Preconceived Notions Aside for the Intellectual Ride of your Life!"

 

[Ming]

LOL Thanks Peacebaby for this....

Actually Ming, I only skimmed the first page...

Newspaper astrology is actualyl totally acurate if done properly.

Aires chart is cast for 0 dgrees aries rising, hence the predictions are based on where the planets are in the various houses fro the time period. It is the Aries chart and transits.

Same for taurs = 0 degrees taurus rising.

Have a play:
lay astrology scopes side by side with one another by different authors and you ougt to find similar reading or reasonably discussions of similar events, particularly big dates.

Enjoy your chat, glad to see someone is keeping the subject on the board

Hi to all - been a wee bit busy

Lis

Maybe; because Sun Sign astrology makes such a 'vague' idea compared to the picture that ALL the signs and ALL the aspects and SIGNS and HOUSES make..

It just seems so insignificant and inaccurate when you compare the two. It's like comparing 1 dollar to 1 million dollars. Sure the 1 dollar can get you something, but 1 million dollars can you SOMETHING.

I'll try that laying out when I have time!

 

[simulatedworld]

I didn't mean to rehash the same old stuff. I thought I figured out something new, in fact.

Let me stress again that I agree with you that it's theoretically possible that astrology could be representationally accurate, and that once we include all the information given we can even fairly call it unfalsifiable.

Do you consider all unfalsifiable things equally probable? Can you go into some of your basic epistemological beliefs?


Please note that I am not asking for "proof that astrology is true"--I don't want a 100% yes or 100% no answer. I want to know, in your view, what is the probability that astrology is true, based on the incomplete information we have now? I know you can't prove it either way; I want your assessment of the likelihood, not a definite proof.

 

[CzeCze]

Hey Ming, I used to be really into astrology and have examined my natal chart with all the significant aspects. I've even done 'karmic astrology'. I leave it alone now.

At the time I was into it, I thought it was very accurate and helpful. Like tarot or tea leaf reading, they are highly interpretive/intuitive/take it with a grain of salt. Basically it gives you something to think about, almost like if you randomly grabbed a card from a deck of cards and was told to focus on the 'meaning of the card' for the rest of the day.

Also, I found it kinda depressing and repressive after a while to think I was 'locked in' or 'destined' for certain things. Even with typology, I believe you are capable of becoming anyone or anything you want, typology just provides guidelines.

 

[CzeCze]

MOD NOTE

I seriously think that was the biggest thread derail I have ever seen...wait 2nd biggest.

Since the thread discussion clearly split off, moved it here.

As for this thread - carry on!

 

[Zarathustra]

Since nobody seems to be posting in the astrology thread ever since the massacre, I figure I might as well try to get some kind of life rekindled.

Anyone seen the new image(s) from the Hubble?

 

[Zarathustra]

I just showed this to SillySapienne, and she said, "When you see things like this, you can't help but think there's a God."

In my opinion, the same could be said about astrology...

 

[Forever_Jung]

I just showed this to SillySapienne, and she said, "When you see things like this, you can't help but think there's a God."

In my opinion, the same could be said about astrology...

May I ask why?

 

[PeaceBaby]

I know this is a total side note, but you'll no doubt find it interesting to see how they assign and enhance color in images received from the Hubble Telescope: HubbleSite - Behind the Pictures - Meaning of Color

Enjoy!

 

[Venom]

People think it's b*llshit. I think the bible is b*llshit, but not everyone agrees with me. It's like that .

That's funny...some people think the bible, and many old religions are just derivatives of astrology...

I dont agree with them...but I will say this: I've seen the Persian astrology painted in Egyptian temples, I've seen the parables of Egyptian mythology with monotheistic mythology...

It could all be from the same stock...or it could not be who knows!

 

[Forever_Jung]

That's funny...some people think the bible, and many old religions are just derivatives of astrology...

I dont agree with them...but I will say this: I've seen the Persian astrology painted in Egyptian temples, I've seen the parables of Egyptian mythology with monotheistic mythology...

It could all be from the same stock...or it could not be who knows!

I find religion has more value (to me personally) even if they're both "false". Holy books try to help guide you in leading a good life, and much of it has literary/philosophical merit. The Qur'Ran has some good poetry! Also religion often promotes a sense of community.

 

[Jaguar]

Didn't Bill Maher write The Bible?

 

[Venom]

I find religion has more value (to me personally) even if they're both "false". Holy books try to help guide you in leading a good life, and much of it has literary/philosophical merit. The Qur'Ran has some good poetry! Also religion often promotes a sense of community.

agreed. people who have a vision of what they want, seem better off. the books certainly help. I dont see how astrology fits this bill...unless you use it to know that, "I need to get married within the next year because venus is rising in my moon!!!"

 

[ragashree]

I returned to this thread earlier to see what had happened with that astrology discussion, and was greeted with the traumatic and bloody aftermath of a wholesale massacre. The poor shattered mortal remains of what had been living, breathing, human thoughts were buried deep in their mass grave, only a few disjointed, decaying body parts remaining strewn around on the field where they fought and suffered to memorialise their valiant contribution...

But at least we have a nice picture of the stars to look at as we mourn the fallen, those brave sons and daughters of the embatttled human intellect who went to war for the sake of uncovering a greater Truth, and perished for all our sakes at the capricious hands of that unanswerable power that rules our mortal fates upon this forum. But in this place of loss and mourning, as we gaze upon the majesty of Hubble's revelation, we recieve in all our hearts a sacrament, an intimation of divine epiphany in our contemplation of the manifest glory of the universe. So thanks, Z, for showing us the light of hope, the one true beacon that shines for us in the midst of Utmost Darkness. As we observe this respectful silence for the dear departed children of our minds, so cruelly cut off in their prime, let us pray for them. With all their flaws and imperfections (for none were wholly without sin), may they enjoy forgiveness in recognition of their wholehearted courage and the justice of their cause, and be reborn again to a greater life, shorn of sin and imperfection. For the mods giveth, and the mods taketh away. Amen.