Astrology - Are you a believer?

[Jaguar]

You're too imperceptive to realize that 90% of your posts are just whining about functional perspectives you don't share.

God, you're gullible.

 

[garbage]

God, you're gullible.

Settle down, Jaguar. This is just your Se talking. I will have none of it in this thread.

 

[Jaguar]

Settle down, Jaguar. This is just your Se talking. I will have none of it in this thread.

 

[Ginkgo]

You guys realize that if you live long enough, the earth with wobble just enough to augment your astrological symbol? Back when the Babylonians created Astrology 2000 years ago, I would have been a Scorpio. But I'm not today - I'm a Libra. I infer that I am a Libra by which constellation the sun rises against on my birthday. And in another couple thousand years, give or take a little, I'll be a Virgo. The constellations are not static.

Why? Because there is nothing more to learn from the universe than physical laws and how they interact. Astrologers just draw intuitive connections where there are none - because as humans we sit and ponder and seek explanations for all that we see. We see the stars, but because we had no means of garnering tactile information about them, we settled on superstition. But now we have the means of informing ourselves... so why do some of us still embrace astrology? Because some of us think the world is the center of the universe, and so the universe focuses on the world in an astrological manner. Just as the Ancient Chinese and Romans thought that they were the center of the world.

So are you really the center of the universe? Does the universe bestow its ethereal gifts upon you as if you were deity? In some sense, yes. You are part of the universe. But it's not a magical connection, nor is it divine. It's physical.

 

[Ginkgo]

[YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iunr4B4wfDA&feature=fvw"]Carl Sagan on Astrology[/YOUTUBE]

A question for believers: What would happen to your personality, or your daily life, if you were born on another planet? Or born in space? You wouldn't be influenced by the same astrological threshold as you would be on the earth. Then, all of your charts and predictions would be paltry - not that they aren't already.

@ Zarathustra: Let's suppose you were in that same shop and your brought your entire High School Cohort with you, most of whom were born under the same constellation. Do you really think they'd all be behaving the same way? That they would all be identifiable as the same archetype?

 

[Moiety]

Good points Tater.

And yeah how convenient is it that the constellation of Libra translates into an individual who cares about balance and that the constellation of Leo translates into an individual that is all bossy n stuff....

 

[matmos]

The Chinese believe that to be born in the Year of the Fire Horse is "unlucky". In the year preceding the Year of the Fire Horse, many additional fetuses are aborted - for there own sake - for their lives will be "unlucky" ones.

Yet it is a relatively easy to disprove. Inspect everyone born in 1966, for example, and compare the various elements of there lives with those born in say 1968 or 1972.

And still the Year of the Fire Horse is unlucky for a quarter of the planet.

Women born in the Year of the Fire Horse are, apparently strong-willed and difficult to marry off, ergo undesirable. They are supposedly "world-changers". And that is why they are unwanted. Clearly this is complete bunkum.

But apparently astrology is "benign"...

Horse (zodiac) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Edit. Please forgive my generalisation, "the Chinese believe"... There's bound to be at least one that doesn't. Rendering the statement invalid.

Sorry.

 

[ragashree]

Well, I'm inferring bullshit, ragashree. Oh, and I have the preponderance of data on my side.

You still can't tell the difference between inference and presumption, it seems. You're presuming bullshit without providing any of the data that you claim other than your own assertion, which is meaninglessly subjective without it. This is making me chuckle though. I'm suspecting you're taking this line primarily to convince yourself of your own beliefs, which seem a lot more dogmatic than my own are on this issue. Given that you don't really seem to have an argument beyond repeated statements of your opinion, based on a misreading of my own comments that you haven't yet been prepared to justify with reference to anything I've actually said, you simply don't have a leg to stand on. Mere repeated insistence of something doesn't make it any more true. If you want to take issue with what I'm saying, it would help if you took note of what that actually was, and provided your reasoning.

 

[Night]

You still can't tell the difference between inference and presumption, it seems. You're presuming bullshit without providing any of the data that you claim other than your own assertion, which is meaninglessly subjective without it. This is making me chuckle though. I'm suspecting you're taking this line primarily to convince yourself of your own beliefs, which seem a lot more dogmatic than my own are on this issue. Given that you don't really seem to have an argument beyond repeated statements of your opinion, based on a misreading of my own comments that you haven't yet been prepared to justify with reference to anything I've actually said, you simply don't have a leg to stand on. Mere repeated insistence of something doesn't make it any more true.

You're still not understanding, and I'm bored.

 

[ragashree]

You're still not understanding, and I'm bored.

At least we've found some common ground at last though!

 

[Night]

At least we've found some common ground at last though!

 

[Mole]

Conservatism

... so why do some of us still embrace astrology?

So why do some of us embrace astrology? For the same reason we embrace MBTI.

For both astrology and MBTI reinforce conservatism.

Both astrology and MBTI put the critical mind to sleep, and allows conservatism to flourish.

And most interesting astrology and MBTI put the scientific mind, and so the scientific method, to sleep.

So both astrology and MBTI take us back to pre-scientific times in a not dissimilar way that the Islamists want to take us back to the 7th Century.

In a world of pain and humiliation, conservatism is comforting, and means we don't have to confront the causes of our pain and humiliation.

And surprise, conservatism is not only the cause of our pain and humiliation, but seeks to distract our minds and provide a modicum of comfort.

And most who are suffering pain and humiliation seek comfort, even in the stars at the back of women's magazines, or in MBTI on Typology Central.

 

[Jaguar]

And Carl Jung sexually abused his patients, and created a cult, according to Victor.

 

[yenom]

astrology is as accurate as the enneagram. If you claim you don't believe in bullshit, don't believe in enneagram either.

Take it or leave it seriously.

 

[Forever_Jung]

So why do some of us embrace astrology? For the same reason we embrace MBTI.

For both astrology and MBTI reinforce conservatism.

Both astrology and MBTI put the critical mind to sleep, and allows conservatism to flourish.

And most interesting astrology and MBTI put the scientific mind, and so the scientific method, to sleep.

So both astrology and MBTI take us back to pre-scientific times in a not dissimilar way that the Islamists want to take us back to the 7th Century.

In a world of pain and humiliation, conservatism is comforting, and means we don't have to confront the causes of our pain and humiliation.

And surprise, conservatism is not only the cause of our pain and humiliation, but seeks to distract our minds and provide a modicum of comfort.

And most who are suffering pain and humiliation seek comfort, even in the stars at the back of women's magazines, or in MBTI on Typology Central.

MBTI makes way more sense, hell even radical Religion makes more sense than Astrology. Posts aren't true just because they're written in an an elaborate and idiosyncratic way.

Edit: I originally posted astronomy, I assume because I have a physics/astronomy exam this morning

 

[Forever_Jung]

astrology is as accurate as the enneagram. If you claim you don't believe in bullshit, don't believe in enneagram either.

Take it or leave it seriously.

Can someone explain this to me? Why is the Enneagram so awful? It doesn't tell you who you are based on bullshit charts that have no bearing on anything, it's just like other personality systems. Why do people pick on the Enneagram so much?

 

[Zarathustra]

A question for believers: What would happen to your personality, or your daily life, if you were born on another planet? Or born in space? You wouldn't be influenced by the same astrological threshold as you would be on the earth. Then, all of your charts and predictions would be paltry - not that they aren't already.

Well, I'm not a believer, but I'll play devil's advocate.

If you were born on another planet: I would assume that if you were born on another planet, this planet would be part of its own solar system (assuming it's not another planet in ours), which would have its own planetary bodies, sun(s), constellations, etc. Depending on the history and level of development of the society in which you grew up, your ancestors may have already created/discovered the various planetary bodies, sun(s), constellations, etc. surrounding your home planet and created/discovered synchronicities between those bodies and qualities/characteristics/energies/archetypes on your home planet.

Accordingly, your planet of birth would have its own astrology, in which your existence would partake.

As for being born in space: that's a good question. Much of astrology does seem to depend on actually being on the surface of a planet (for example, one's rising sign is the sign coming over the horizon at the exact time of your birth from the view of the place where you are born), but perhaps the rules that create one's natal chart can be bent for the case of those who are not actually on a planet...

I mean, if you're willing to assume that we live in an inherently meaningful universe where qualities/characteristics/energies/archetypes are in sync with the planets, sun, constellations, etc., well then, you're probably willing to assume that the same ordering mechanism that brings about that synchronicity is complex and powerful enough to work in some way, shape or form if someone were to be born in space.

Perhaps depending on the place where they're at, they'll receive bits and pieces of the archetypal energies from whatever system(s) they happen to have view of, be close to, or be native to...

@ Zarathustra: Let's suppose you were in that same shop and your brought your entire High School Cohort with you, most of whom were born under the same constellation. Do you really think they'd all be behaving the same way? That they would all be identifiable as the same archetype?

Shop? Did you mean ship?

 

[JFrombaugh]

Several people have asked me my views about Astrology, and my answer is always the same. Although I am myself a spiritual person who is (for the most part) open to possibilities and fascinated by symbolic personality theories, Astrology is not something I truly believe in, nor do I view it as a viable personality theory.

First, it has not in any way been scientifically proven that the positions of the planets at a person’s time of birth has any effect on a person’s personality. Second, I mostly treat Astrology as entertainment and read my horoscopes occasionally for fun, rather than taking the personality aspect of the twelve signs seriously. Third, if the Astrological birth charts were in fact widely accepted and used today, it would throw just about everybody I know into chaos. I mean, looking at my own birth chart, I am a Capricorn Sun Sign with Moon in Libra, Ascendant in Saggitarius & Mars in Aries (to name but four parts), and one can just look at my personality types I have listed in my signature and see how contradictory that is. My mother, who is an INTP, is a Scorpio (an emotionally expressive sign)! My stepfather Stephen, who is very Introverted and treats work as his God, is the hedonistic sign of Gemini! Yeah, Stephen breaks the rules all the time. Right. Short and simple, it is very unlikely that Astrology is actually an accurate theory of personality. Enneagram is a viable personality theory. Astrology is not.

Or, if it is somehow accurate, the system has a number of imprecisions in it that haven’t been accounted for for the purposes of using it in today’s society. Therefore, even if astrology was scientifically & psychologically accurate I would not believe in it. I like to believe in theories that are actually plausible, you see.

 

[FigerPuppet]

It's a load o' bull.

 

[Ginkgo]

Clearly this is complete bunkum.

Good to know.

Also, I like this word "bunkum". It reminds me of trampolines, but I'm not sure why. It's probably my mind seeking patterns that aren't there - just like those lousy astrologers.

banana, were you born under a trampoline by chance? No, not a star-filled one. Like a real one.