[NT] Ask an NT witch anything.

[greenfairy]

Yes, thanks.

My perspective on energy and spells is probably different from Greenfairy's,

Nah, not too much.

but here goes. First, I consider any energy I work with to be real, simply because it gets results. No results doesn't necessarily imply no energy - perhaps I did not collect or use it correctly - but I have had enough results to know it works. I would not equate any of this with scientifically observable forms of energy. Apropos of your second paragraph, it might just be my own internal mental or even emotional energy.

Why would you not equate it with scientifically observable forms of energy? Surely you're not saying it's an "unreal" or "unscientific" energy which still exists. Are you saying there are more kinds of energy than science can observe? My thoughts are that it is the same energy, we just lack the tools to observe it in more areas than the strictly physical.

My perspective on spell work is that (1) it is unethical to try to compel the actions of another through a spell, but also (2) it is most effective to use a spell to change yourself rather than the external world. You might call this harmonizing your perspective with reality. I see it more as seeing reality in a different way, such that you realize more options for dealing productively with it. My focus is less on harmony than on results, though harmony does help. It is like swimming with the current, or tacking with the wind, rather than trying to sail directly into it when circumstances appear unfavorable. Yes, this is a rational approach, and often does result in win-win situations when the conflict involves other people.

Agreed. This is what I was taught as well.

Of course I operate using the Western paradigm of linear time, but on top of that overlay an appreciation of the cyclic nature of "natural time". This intersects our lives in holidays, observable seasons, even birthdays and other annual events. On top of that goes the cycle of an individual life, repeated through the generations. I suppose this influences not so much what I do every day, but how I see and think about things as I go through the day. And, of course, my spiritual activities.

Again, are you commenting on the nature of time as being two kinds, or that we have two kinds of perceptions of it and you are overlapping them? If the second, what do you think about the "true" nature of time?

 

[RaptorWizard]

[MENTION=15773]greenfairy[/MENTION] I appreciate your well thought out answer to my question!

One part that got me thinking is when you mentioned the Tao or the Yin-Yang, Forces of existence moving into causation a climactic clash, producing an eternal conflict from which we emerge stronger by surviving the struggle. In this way, in this process of never ending cycles, birth and death, destruction and apocalypse, is the balance of the world forged into form, the chaos of destruction, and the harmony of creation, giving us our current Cosmos. It can of course though be improved in the future by the glories of our grand designs, hence the annihilation of the old world, and the springing into being of new worlds undreampt of in our time. The mere contemplation of these possibilities is a marvel beyond measure!

Don't take my comment too seriously as I was just playing around the whole good and evil nemesis construct, which of course was quite entertaining right, at least as much so as the boring SJ stories thread I recently resurrected!

 

[greenfairy]

[MENTION=15773]greenfairy[/MENTION] I appreciate your well thought out answer to my question!

One part that got me thinking is when you mentioned the Tao or the Yin-Yang, Forces of existence moving into causation a climactic clash, producing an eternal conflict from which we emerge stronger by surviving the struggle. In this way, in this process of never ending cycles, birth and death, destruction and apocalypse, is the balance of the world forged into form, the chaos of destruction, and the harmony of creation, giving us our current Cosmos. It can of course though be improved in the future by the glories of our grand designs, hence the annihilation of the old world, and the springing into being of new worlds undreampt of in our time. The mere contemplation of these possibilities is a marvel beyond measure!

Don't take my comment too seriously as I was just playing around the whole good and evil nemesis construct, which of course was quite entertaining right, at least as much so as the boring SJ stories thread I recently resurrected!

Haha yes, much more entertaining than the elderly SJ's.

 

[Coriolis]

Why do you think of yourself as an Fe user, and if you really are one, which seems to be the case, then does Fe have anything to do with your philosophies of peace and harmony, you know, having a holistic view of nature rather than a tenacious tendency to control it like the Te users do?

The key to controlling nature is figuring out how it wants to be controlled. In other words, working with its own tendencies to shape it to our benefit.

Why would you not equate it with scientifically observable forms of energy? Surely you're not saying it's an "unreal" or "unscientific" energy which still exists. Are you saying there are more kinds of energy than science can observe? My thoughts are that it is the same energy, we just lack the tools to observe it in more areas than the strictly physical.

Yes, there are many kinds of energy. Some science can readily observe: kinetic, thermal, chemical, nuclear, etc. What we think of as metaphysical energy is different from these, just as these are different from each other. There may very well be more than one kind of metaphysical energy, and some day we may have the scientific means of measuring them as well. Until then, we can still employ them based on empirical, even anecdotal, evidence.

Again, are you commenting on the nature of time as being two kinds, or that we have two kinds of perceptions of it and you are overlapping them? If the second, what do you think about the "true" nature of time?

It is in physics that time is seen to be not the simple linear progression we all operate under every day. I see time as it applies to spirituality as in fact linear; it is worldly events that turn and cycle. Time is like the cartesian coordinate system, while events are like any kind of plot imaginable, taking place on that canvas.

 

[Coriolis]

There are a lot of books she can read on the subjects you mention. As she's not on here for me to speak to, I can only advise her to balance her energy, read some books, and find some local pagans in her area she trusts.

Edit: [MENTION=16388]Bilateral Entry[/MENTION]: perhaps ask [MENTION=9811]Coriolis[/MENTION].

Sorry - I have no experience with this sort of thing, and thus no useful advice beyond what Greenfairy has mentioned. Books are good - you should be able to find some decent references online. Better yet, though, if you know someone who is trustworthy and good at handling this sort of overwhelming energy, put your gf in touch with him/her. IME, energy handling is best learned and taught in person.

 

[Bilateral Entry]

There's so much freaky shit that I know is probably real, that most people don't believe in because it doesn't receive attention. I haven't read much of this thread (tldr), but I'm pretty sure that paranormal stuff can be observed and measured (i.e. scientifically studied). It's possible, it's just no one really does it, and it's challenging to measure and observe because of its inconsistency. And lack of funding. And lack of general public interest.

A lotta people think that humanity's current science is good. And in a way it is. And in a way... to believe that what we've discovered and communicated widely is all there is to it is narrow-minded.

I have ideas that could "change the world" so to speak. A lot of scientific work on the paranormal would change the world. It would be the equivalent of the tech boom (P.S. oh internet, how I love you). I have ideas to make charity organizations bigger than the world's current biggest for-profit corporations. I have ideas that can change human culture and take humanity to the next level. 200 years later people could be looking back and thinking "wow... and they called themselves 'civilized'... they were barbarians back then!" But I often don't feel like doing all that work

 

[greenfairy]

There's so much freaky shit that I know is probably real, that most people don't believe in because it doesn't receive attention. I haven't read much of this thread (tldr), but I'm pretty sure that paranormal stuff can be observed and measured (i.e. scientifically studied). It's possible, it's just no one really does it, and it's challenging to measure and observe because of its inconsistency. And lack of funding. And lack of general public interest.

A lotta people think that humanity's current science is good. And in a way it is. And in a way... to believe that what we've discovered and communicated widely is all there is to it is narrow-minded.

I have ideas that could "change the world" so to speak. A lot of scientific work on the paranormal would change the world. It would be the equivalent of the tech boom (P.S. oh internet, how I love you). I have ideas to make charity organizations bigger than the world's current biggest for-profit corporations. I have ideas that can change human culture and take humanity to the next level. 200 years later people could be looking back and thinking "wow... and they called themselves 'civilized'... they were barbarians back then!" But I often don't feel like doing all that work

You should! And I agree about science. We know a lot of things, but science is based upon observation, and our tools for observation are rather limited. There are a lot of things we can't observe in detail right now. There has been scientific study on plant consciousness; people have hooked plants up to electrodes and measured their responses to stimuli- but that hasn't received much attention in the US. Maybe some people think it's explainable in other ways, and it's just confirmation bias or something from my point of view.

 

[greenfairy]

There's so much freaky shit that I know is probably real, that most people don't believe in because it doesn't receive attention. I haven't read much of this thread (tldr), but I'm pretty sure that paranormal stuff can be observed and measured (i.e. scientifically studied). It's possible, it's just no one really does it, and it's challenging to measure and observe because of its inconsistency. And lack of funding. And lack of general public interest.

A lotta people think that humanity's current science is good. And in a way it is. And in a way... to believe that what we've discovered and communicated widely is all there is to it is narrow-minded.

I have ideas that could "change the world" so to speak. A lot of scientific work on the paranormal would change the world. It would be the equivalent of the tech boom (P.S. oh internet, how I love you). I have ideas to make charity organizations bigger than the world's current biggest for-profit corporations. I have ideas that can change human culture and take humanity to the next level. 200 years later people could be looking back and thinking "wow... and they called themselves 'civilized'... they were barbarians back then!" But I often don't feel like doing all that work

You should! And I agree about science. We know a lot of things, but science is based upon observation, and our tools for observation are rather limited. There are a lot of things we can't observe in detail right now. There has been scientific study on plant consciousness; people have hooked plants up to electrodes and measured their responses to stimuli- but that hasn't received much attention in the US. Maybe some people think it's explainable in other ways, and it's just confirmation bias or something from my point of view.

 

[RaptorWizard]

How do the forces of chaos and harmony bring things into balance?

 

[greenfairy]

How do the forces of chaos and harmony bring things into balance?

The universe is a dynamic equilibrium. Chaos is entropy, and harmony is order. Together they form balance. The entity which is reality is continually moving along a continuum of balance and imbalance, like a beating heart. So my answer to how, is that it is an inherent property of existence; it is in a constant state of change, but it never deviates from its internal structure; it just re-creates itself. The structure pulls it back into balance as it is twisting and turning, realigning, and turning inside out.

This is my theory, anyway.

 

[Typh0n]

Hi. I havent read the entire thread(theres alot!lol) so Im sorry if these questions have already been adressed.

I think there is some confusion to me about the meaning of the word "witch"... What does it mean to you be a witch, is that the same thing as being Wiccan? Or does it mean something else? Do you practice an form of magic? How would you catgeorize your beliefs(if at all, I know alot of folks dont like categorizations)?

 

[Coriolis]

Hi. I havent read the entire thread(theres alot!lol) so Im sorry if these questions have already been adressed.

I think there is some confusion to me about the meaning of the word "witch"... What does it mean to you be a witch, is that the same thing as being Wiccan? Or does it mean something else? Do you practice an form of magic? How would you catgeorize your beliefs(if at all, I know alot of folks dont like categorizations)?

There are many definitions and interpretations of the word "witch". It has become a perjorative term, through the misunderstanding and distrust of those following earth-based religions. Many members of those faiths want to reclaim the term to mean something more accurate and neutral about who modern witches are. In my tradition, "witch" is used for both men and women. It refers to the practical side of things, e.g. spellwork, using herbs and tools, handling energy, etc. The other half is the spiritual side, namely what a person believes about the divine, the purpose and meaning of life, what happens after death, etc. The term "Wiccan" applies to this. We see both halves as equally necessary for a productive life. One can thus be a witch without being Wiccan, or without having any beliefs about deity, afterlife, etc., though they do help. Similarly, one can be Wiccan in belief without practicing any of the "crafts" that comprise witchcraft, and thus not really be a witch. Of course, that is my interpretation, based on my spiritual group; others may see things differently.

As for categorizing my beliefs, I do tend to resist this among mainstream groups because the terms I would use can be loaded for them, and lead instantly to misunderstandings and false assumptions that make the rest of the conversation unproductive. When asked my religion, I tell people that I resist labelling, but am happy to discuss my beliefs. (I am, and I do.) To the open-minded and genuinely curious, I would call myself a Wiccan. To keepers of government statistics, I would say simply pagan. This way, the many subgroups of paganism will all add up in one umbrella faith group, just as the many denominations of Christianity all are counted as Christians. There are more of us than most people realize.

 

[WALMART]

Why do you believe what you do? Are there spots of your faith completely propagated by the simple act of faith itself? If only partially, what are these areas of belief and what substance do they hold in reality?

Do you ever feel there are alternatives that better explain the phenomena you attempt to elucidate through your beliefs?

What is your history of the pursuit for spiritual attainment?

 

[greenfairy]

Why do you believe what you do? Are there spots of your faith completely propagated by the simple act of faith itself? If only partially, what are these areas of belief and what substance do they hold in reality?

I don't consider my beliefs to have anything to do with faith. That was one of the main things I rejected about Christianity. I only believe the things I can explain. Granted often my explanation for things is somewhat esoteric, but if I can find some way it makes sense along with what we know about physics, it is possible in my opinion. I also think science has not progressed enough to really be able to sufficiently explain everything; thinking we have all the answers is an arrogant attitude in my opinion. But I'm a skeptic on most things. I reserve judgment on anything I'm not certain about.

There are, however, a lot of things I think might be the case, or probably are the case, on which I've reserved official judgment; those are things I have theories about consistent with physics and quantum theory and such, and my experience and those of others. But if it comes down to it, I'm more ready to reject one of my beliefs than scientific evidence.

Like, I'm not certain that anything happens to us after we die, that some sorts of psychic ability exist, that ghosts or fairies exist, that reincarnation is true, that I can talk to plants, or that gods exist. But I have explanations for how some of these things could kind of be true in a certain way of thinking about them which is not literal. I really don't believe deities exist independent of us; I think we created them as thought forms. But I have had experiences which I think are meaningful, so I explain them as my consciousness interacting with the collective consciousness and collections of energy. A lot of times I'm skeptical that magic exists, but whatever I do seems to work, and it's all just energy.

I suppose I have a sort of faith in positivity, the universe moving toward greater balance and harmony, and people trying to be good to each other even if they don't know how. I think that's part of how reality works, but I know it involves a certain amount of faith, and if it is not the case I'm not going to be upset.

Do you ever feel there are alternatives that better explain the phenomena you attempt to elucidate through your beliefs?

My mind continually wrestles with mysticism and rationality, trying to reconcile the two.

What is your history of the pursuit for spiritual attainment?

Oh boy, do you want the short version or the long version?

 

[greenfairy]

Hi. I havent read the entire thread(theres alot!lol) so Im sorry if these questions have already been adressed.

I think there is some confusion to me about the meaning of the word "witch"... What does it mean to you be a witch, is that the same thing as being Wiccan? Or does it mean something else? Do you practice an form of magic? How would you catgeorize your beliefs(if at all, I know alot of folks dont like categorizations)?

What [MENTION=9811]Coriolis[/MENTION] said is accurate. I would add that I was taught that "witch" came from words referring to a "wise" man or woman, a shaman or medicine person of sorts; this was a person who practiced healing both on the physical and spiritual plane, midwifery, energy work (dealing with the metaphysical), and who presided over ceremonies of birth, death, and important life events in between. Together these comprise the spiritual and practical crafts of the wise. There is not a social role comparable in our societies now, but the knowledge is returning, and people who practice these crafts can be called witches.

 

[greenfairy]

Here is a document I wrote describing what a witch is, if you would like to read something long and comprehensive:

Witches’ Principles of Belief and Way of Life
Posted on April 21, 2012 | Leave a comment

We witches seek to define our beliefs and way of life so as to be better understood.

A witch is defined as a wise person; one who seeks wisdom beyond the ordinary, to understand the mysteries of the world for the purpose of enhancing life for one’s self and those around her or him; and is able to do so by using all available power.

Our beliefs are as individual and diverse as our people, but we share many fundamental beliefs and values. Above all we believe that these principles promote peace and understanding, and to that extent are compatible with all religions and spiritual paths.

We acknowledge that all spiritual paths are sacred, and seek to learn from any and all of them as we are drawn. Likewise, we welcome all who seek to understand us, to the extent that a safe and respectful environment and attitude is present.

We acknowledge that there is a force of consciousness that flows through all things. This force is perceived and conceptualized in as many ways as there are people. We seek to connect with Divine Consciousness or Spirit as we live our lives. We believe this is the source of all power.

We acknowledge the feminine and masculine polarities of Spirit. Whether we see these energies as deities, goddess and god, male and female, many or few, we believe that harmony between the two and everything that lies in between is the ultimate truth. Polarities are complimentary, part of each other, flow into each other, and are part of one whole.

Given this truth we believe that men, women, and those of undefined gender are created equal and have equal rights to life, liberty, empowerment, and the pursuit of happiness.

We believe that sexuality is a fundamental expression of harmony between the feminine and masculine forces, and is a creation of consciousness and life. Pleasure and sexuality enhance life and well-being, and connect us to the divine. Given this truth we believe that sexuality should be practiced freely, healthfully, lovingly, joyfully, ethically, and celebrated as sacred.

We believe that the universe and everything in it is connected. All life exists in a balance and is interdependent. Each person is a part of this web. As witches, we seek to understand this balance, preserve it, and live within it. We live in harmony with nature, ourselves, and other people.

We believe that harmonious conduct is exemplified by practicing the principles of freedom and compassion in balance with one another. This is evident when both are present in the highest quantity and quality possible, for all concerned.

We acknowledge that nature created life, and that the natural order is most conducive to sustaining life. Given that nature gave birth to us, we acknowledge that nature is more powerful and wise than us. We believe that attempting to destroy, alter, manipulate or control nature and natural forces is counterproductive and harmful. In living our lives we seek to understand the natural order and live in accordance with it.

We believe that large and small elements of nature are mirror images of each other, expressed in the concepts of macrocosm and microcosm, that there are patterns reproduced in all levels of the cosmos.

We believe that in living in harmony with nature we can understand ourselves and connect to the divine. Nature is a reflection of ourselves. We find connections in the cycles and rhythms of the Earth and moon, and honor these connections in many ways including meditation, celebrations, and rituals.

We believe that Spirit is present in each person and each life, and each person has equal access to enlightenment through their own intuition.

We believe that harmony exists through individual and collective empowerment rather than power over others. To limit another’s freedom and happiness decreases freedom and happiness for all. Because we are interdependent, free cooperation is necessary, as is balancing the actions of one against another.

We believe that the highest authority is that of divine consciousness, which is expressed in peace, love, harmony, understanding, and well-being. Each person has equal access through their intuition.

We believe that life is best lived in a state of understanding the fundamental reality of life in our present human state. By understanding our human experiences we gain consciousness and joy. We acknowledge as sacred all human experiences which connect us to divine consciousness and a fundamental understanding of our reality. We celebrate the cycle of life, of fertility, birth, death, and rebirth, and the experience of life itself. This viewpoint can be described as sacred humanism.

We acknowledge that the universe is made up of multiple levels of existence, and that we are not aware of all of these at all times. As witches we seek to understand reality on all levels with our intuition, and we believe that this knowledge is both useful in living our lives in an efficient manner, and a source of wisdom and empowerment.

We believe that everything is made up of energy and that energy flows through all existence. As witches we seek to sense this energy, attune ourselves to it, and use it to enhance life for ourselves and those around us.

A witch is able to use all available power in living life and directing her or his will to manifest. Sources of power include positive human relationships, connecting to nature and elements of nature, knowledge of medicinal plants and stones, energy work, all knowledge and wisdom, connecting to the divine in many ways and forms, activities which alter states of consciousness, and above all harmony with and understanding of one’s self.

We value all ethical avenues to gaining knowledge and wisdom. We believe in both intuitive and analytical sources of truth, and that they exist in polarity. We believe that knowledge and wisdom are gained by each person freely seeking it and engaging in dialogue, debate, questioning, and exploration.

In defining our beliefs and way of life, we hope to increase peace and understanding toward us as individuals and our communities, amongst our own people, from us to others, and in the world.



Adapted from The American Council of Witches’ “Principles of Wiccan Belief,” 1974.

[MENTION=9811]Coriolis[/MENTION], I am interested in what you think of it and to what degree your beliefs are consistent.

I think I overused the word "consciousness." I'd like to revise it and change that.

 

[Typh0n]

[MENTION=15773]greenfairy[/MENTION] [MENTION=9811]Coriolis[/MENTION]

Thank you for your interesting responses, and the document, which addressed my questions.