[so] Are Social-lasts arguably 'better' at socializing?

[EJCC]

What invisible behavior annoys the shit out of you? Curious.

"Disappearing" -- leaving social events without warning, not speaking to friends for long periods of time because "no one will notice you're gone". Essentially forgetting that people in your social sphere are keeping tabs on you, care about you, and want to know what's going on. Also forgetting that they have social obligations because of that. (It's frustrating to put effort into a relationship with someone, that involves social group time, to have none of that effort reciprocated.)

Note: this is not all social-lasts, nor is it social-lasts all the time.

 

[011235813]

"Disappearing" -- leaving social events without warning, not speaking to friends for long periods of time because "no one will notice you're gone". Essentially forgetting that people in your social sphere are keeping tabs on you, care about you, and want to know what's going on. Also forgetting that they have social obligations because of that. (It's frustrating to put effort into a relationship with someone, that involves social group time, to have none of that effort reciprocated.)

Note: this is not all social-lasts, nor is it social-lasts all the time.

I have to admit I do this a lot. I also like to leave work without saying bye to people cause I just want to GET OUT.

 

[brainheart]

"Disappearing" -- leaving social events without warning, not speaking to friends for long periods of time because "no one will notice you're gone". Essentially forgetting that people in your social sphere are keeping tabs on you, care about you, and want to know what's going on. Also forgetting that they have social obligations because of that. (It's frustrating to put effort into a relationship with someone, that involves social group time, to have none of that effort reciprocated.)

Note: this is not all social-lasts, nor is it social-lasts all the time.

Yeah, I definitely do all of this. Why does a relationship involve social group time, though? Or, more precisely, what sort of relationships involve social group time? And why does someone have social obligations? What does that even mean?

 

[Stansmith]

I have to admit I do this a lot. I also like to leave work without saying bye to people cause I just want to GET OUT.

Hmm, but isn't that just introversion? I can't picture an Fi-Dom scrambling to make sure that they've alerted everyone they've managed to rub shoulders with of their absence.

I kind of want to say that I'm Sp/Sx since barely any of that crosses my mind when I decide to go off on my own. Once the conversation is over, I feel little to no obligation towards casual acquaintances beyond say..giving them a heads up when they miss an assignment if we happen to share a class together. Otherwise, my personal whereabouts and things of the sort are my business.

 

[cascadeco]

Hmm, but isn't that just introversion? I can't picture an Fi-Dom scrambling to make sure that they've alerted everyone they've managed to rub shoulders with of their absence.

I kind of want to say that I'm Sp/Sx since barely any of that crosses my mind when I decide to go off on my own. Once the conversation is over, I feel little to no obligation towards casual acquaintances beyond say..giving them a heads up when they miss an assignment if we happen to share a class together. Otherwise, my personal whereabouts and things of the sort are my business.

Yeah, I think there's definitely a dose of introversion, and also maybe Fi vs Fe to a degree, in what senza describes. For me so-dom goes beyond social pleasantries / 'politeness'. I knew all of the social dynamics / interplay at work, what would rock the boat vs not, and paid attention to that, or knew how to navigate without making myself the black sheep, but I also kept to myself the bulk of the time and would scurry out of work without acknowledging anyone maybe half the time, unless someone caught my eye as I was leaving or I was feeling extra friendly.

 

[Stansmith]

Yeah, I think there's definitely a dose of introversion, and also maybe Fi vs Fe to a degree, in what senza describes. For me so-dom goes beyond social pleasantries / 'politeness'. I knew all of the social dynamics / interplay at work, what would rock the boat vs not, and paid attention to that, or knew how to navigate without making myself the black sheep, but I also kept to myself the bulk of the time and would scurry out of work without acknowledging anyone maybe half the time, unless someone caught my eye as I was leaving or I was feeling extra friendly.

Could you elaborate on what you mean by the 'dynamics' of the work place? My attention was mainly on the task at hand when I had my first 'job'.

 

[cascadeco]

Could you elaborate on what you mean by the 'dynamics' of the work place? My attention was mainly on the task at hand when I had my first 'job'.

Hmm, 'vibe' of place/company culture, dynamics and interplay between certain people, dynamics between one department and another and seeing the effects of that, knowing when speaking up at a meeting would be 'ok' vs when it would be frowned upon and put in a secret black book and gossiped about, and so on. Knowing that certain behaviors are 'tolerated' at a company level whereas others are frowned upon. Reading senior management, which ripples/defines company culture in many ways, so knowing certain things you do will haunt you forever after / you'll be labeled a certain way, vs not. It's essentially knowing how to blend in vs not being aware of these various things and then not knowing what will be viewed negatively by the collective vs not. Ofc a lot of people don't care, which is fine, too, but it does impact whether their job is a smooth ride or not.

I was aware of this, navigated fine, but at same time wasn't really considered a team player/aligned with the company (in Fe sense).

 

[Qlip]

"Disappearing" -- leaving social events without warning, not speaking to friends for long periods of time because "no one will notice you're gone". Essentially forgetting that people in your social sphere are keeping tabs on you, care about you, and want to know what's going on. Also forgetting that they have social obligations because of that. (It's frustrating to put effort into a relationship with someone, that involves social group time, to have none of that effort reciprocated.)

Note: this is not all social-lasts, nor is it social-lasts all the time.

Heh, I have a couple of SO last introverted friends who do this. I'll be at a bar, and they'll just be gone. I think it's endearing, probably because it's so clueless.

My social instinct is def last, but I do understand about working on maintaining a relationship or a social life. I think that may be the sp aspect of myself kicking in, keep an eye on what is necessary to maintain a posse. But as I've been out in the world, and maybe it's just the area that I'm in, people don't put a lot of effort into their friendships. I've met many a people that I've connected to, and honestly I would hardly see them if I didn't initiate.

Even those with SO in the mix change priorities quickly when they get busy or somebody else gets into their lives. I may not be invisible, but I could be at any time.

I also find SO social directives and obligations a bit impersonal. I get invited places by So peeps, just to up their social points, occasionally only to proxy for them while they attend a different group. It makes me feel like currency. But I think it's just that what I value doesn't always get represented in these types of get togethers. You feel like you're giving me the gift of being included, it's a nice impulse, but it doesn't really connect to any of my gratification centers.

 

[EJCC]

Good explanations, [MENTION=1206]cascadeco[/MENTION] -- thanks! Very thoughtful and much more cohesive than I would have done.

Yeah, I definitely do all of this. Why does a relationship involve social group time, though? Or, more precisely, what sort of relationships involve social group time? And why does someone have social obligations? What does that even mean?

Friendships. Any friendship that is a part of a "group of friends" that you're also a part of. Also it's good that you're asking these clarification questions, because I just realized that one pretty common definition -- i.e. an obligation to obey social rules for the sake of harmony -- is NOT what I was talking about before. As I was referring to it, your social obligations, as they relate to a "clique" of friends, are your obligations to individual members of the group, collectively. When I say "people will miss you when you're gone", I'm thinking of individual people who will miss you for their own personal reasons, because they all individually like you.

My explanation above is VERY so/sx -- but that's probably because my annoyance with social-last "disappearing" is very linked to my instinctual variants. Since figuring out that I'm so/sx, I've realized that my social scene is very true to type: I tend to collect people I like individually, and form them into a group around me*. So when one individual decides to not participate in things socially, or decides to leave without warning, or some other clueless social thing like that, because "no one will miss (them)" -- they clearly aren't realizing that the group is made up of individual people who care. At best, the reaction is like Qlip's reaction below: aw, they're clueless, that's cute. At worst, it's cause for resentment; we the group members are putting effort into this, by creating occasion to hang out, and you clearly aren't putting in any reciprocal effort.

Not sure if this is related or not, but I've also had social-lasts bail on completely non-group-oriented, just-the-two-of-us things because they simply weren't in the mood, and they assumed, since I'm the socially savvy person I am, that I'd have back-up social plans and wouldn't mind. Completely baffling, and, when it's happened, hard not to take personally.

*Just realized my blog is a pretty great example of this.

Heh, I have a couple of SO last introverted friends who do this. I'll be at a bar, and they'll just be gone. I think it's endearing, probably because it's so clueless.

My social instinct is def last, but I do understand about working on maintaining a relationship or a social life. I think that may be the sp aspect of myself kicking in, keep an eye on what is necessary to maintain a posse. But as I've been out in the world, and maybe it's just the area that I'm in, people don't put a lot of effort into their friendships. I've met many a people that I've connected to, and honestly I would hardly see them if I didn't initiate.

Even those with SO in the mix change priorities quickly when they get busy or somebody else gets into their lives. I may not be invisible, but I could be at any time.

I also find SO social directives and obligations a bit impersonal. I get invited places by So peeps, just to up their social points, occasionally only to proxy for them while they attend a different group. It makes me feel like currency. But I think it's just that what I value doesn't always get represented in these types of get togethers. You feel like you're giving me the gift of being included, it's a nice impulse, but it doesn't really connect to any of my gratification centers.

Maybe this is regional, and/or maybe this is so/sp vs. so/sx, but I don't relate at all to the way you described "social points" and impersonal goals in your last paragraph -- and I'd call my social scene anything but impersonal. Even at its most impersonal, my social scene is all about finding cool people that I like to be around, and being around them as much as possible. It still relies on a "click" with the person. I have little tolerance for forced conversation, and even though I'm good at it, I avoid it as much as possible.

 

[brainheart]

Good explanations, [MENTION=1206]cascadeco[/MENTION] -- thanks! Very thoughtful and much more cohesive than I would have done.

Friendships. Any friendship that is a part of a "group of friends" that you're also a part of. Also it's good that you're asking these clarification questions, because I just realized that one pretty common definition -- i.e. an obligation to obey social rules for the sake of harmony -- is NOT what I was talking about before. As I was referring to it, your social obligations, as they relate to a "clique" of friends, are your obligations to individual members of the group, collectively. When I say "people will miss you when you're gone", I'm thinking of individual people who will miss you for their own personal reasons, because they all individually like you.

My explanation above is VERY so/sx -- but that's probably because my annoyance with social-last "disappearing" is very linked to my instinctual variants. Since figuring out that I'm so/sx, I've realized that my social scene is very true to type: I tend to collect people I like individually, and form them into a group around me*. So when one individual decides to not participate in things socially, or decides to leave without warning, or some other clueless social thing like that, because "no one will miss (them)" -- they clearly aren't realizing that the group is made up of individual people who care. At best, the reaction is like Qlip's reaction below: aw, they're clueless, that's cute. At worst, it's cause for resentment; we the group members are putting effort into this, by creating occasion to hang out, and you clearly aren't putting in any reciprocal effort.

Not sure if this is related or not, but I've also had social-lasts bail on completely non-group-oriented, just-the-two-of-us things because they simply weren't in the mood, and they assumed, since I'm the socially savvy person I am, that I'd have back-up social plans and wouldn't mind. Completely baffling, and, when it's happened, hard not to take personally.

*Just realized my blog is a pretty great example of this.

Yeah, what you say is very so/sx. I'm married to a so/sx so I totally know how that works. Funny thing is, though, I'm not involved in any groups so what you talk about is a non-issue. Ok, the one exception would be my immediate family, and my husband likes to do 'whole family' things which, yeah, I'll do those things too (I mean with him and our kids), and I value them, but it seems to be way more important to him than it is to me. Juggling the four of us and making sure I'm connecting with everyone in the way that I like to can feel a little overwhelming to me.

One thing I disagree with in what you say is that I don't think sx/sps bail on just the two of us things. I live for just the two of us things. Sp/sx, though, definitely bails. But maybe my husband would disagree with me on this, maybe he would also say what you say.

It's funny, I don't realize how socially blind I am until social first and seconds start talking about it, and it's like they are talking to me about advanced calculus or something. Seriously clueless. It's like there's this whole other world out there that they see, like what [MENTION=1206]cascadeco[/MENTION] is talking about... mind boggling to me.

Another example would be, I've been reading Proust the last few months, and all of the social focus, it's just... wow.

 

[Kasper]

Friendships. Any friendship that is a part of a "group of friends" that you're also a part of. Also it's good that you're asking these clarification questions, because I just realized that one pretty common definition -- i.e. an obligation to obey social rules for the sake of harmony -- is NOT what I was talking about before. As I was referring to it, your social obligations, as they relate to a "clique" of friends, are your obligations to individual members of the group, collectively. When I say "people will miss you when you're gone", I'm thinking of individual people who will miss you for their own personal reasons, because they all individually like you.

My explanation above is VERY so/sx -- but that's probably because my annoyance with social-last "disappearing" is very linked to my instinctual variants. Since figuring out that I'm so/sx, I've realized that my social scene is very true to type: I tend to collect people I like individually, and form them into a group around me*. So when one individual decides to not participate in things socially, or decides to leave without warning, or some other clueless social thing like that, because "no one will miss (them)" -- they clearly aren't realizing that the group is made up of individual people who care. At best, the reaction is like Qlip's reaction below: aw, they're clueless, that's cute. At worst, it's cause for resentment; we the group members are putting effort into this, by creating occasion to hang out, and you clearly aren't putting in any reciprocal effort.

Not sure if this is related or not, but I've also had social-lasts bail on completely non-group-oriented, just-the-two-of-us things because they simply weren't in the mood, and they assumed, since I'm the socially savvy person I am, that I'd have back-up social plans and wouldn't mind. Completely baffling, and, when it's happened, hard not to take personally.

*Just realized my blog is a pretty great example of this.

Enneagram type matters a whole bunch here.

To reinforce your: "this is not all social-lasts, nor is it social-lasts all the time. "

I'm a So/Sx too, and I do what you hate as a matter of course, I find the presumptions people make as to why it may be done slightly annoying because it is a point of issue for me and people would not get my motivations right unless I told them (which I would be un-inclined to do). 9 + So dom creates this issue for me so it's not a So last thing, the reasons matter, So last is often about obliviousness, for me it's a hyper-focus on So needs mixing with 9 insignificance which results in a preoccupation to fitting in, yet never actually feeling I do, so staying is uncomfortable. As Cascadeco puts it below, it's an itch I want scratched yet can never seem to, so I disappear from all groups I join either into my own space and introspection, or seeking another group, sometimes I return, sometimes it annoys people, and it certainly hinders relationships but being otherwise feels fake to me.

Highlighting what I see as really key. Like skylights says, so's have a really good sense of when they do or don't fit in, and what it would take for them to fit in. It doesn't mean though that their authentic self WILL fit in, or that they ever really find a 'group' they feel they actually truly fit in with. Perhaps for so-doms that's like this lifelong mission that they may never find. So there's often a huge dissonance. The awareness of 'fitting in', but also awareness of how being true to yourself means you won't fit in. That sort of thing. (At least my own experience, and probably half of what I'm writing is flavored with e4 stuff too) Also - yeah, the anxiety element. Think so dom's can have an oversensitivity to this, so, at times it can work against them, or, the oversensitivity can result in just being wrong.

That more than anything, esp the bold, 9 dom + 4 fix makes this a big thing for me. Although I am aware that I can fit in anywhere, there's a massive difference between being free to be authentic and accepted as such, and fitting in because of social skills.

 

[FDG]

"Disappearing" -- leaving social events without warning, not speaking to friends for long periods of time because "no one will notice you're gone". Essentially forgetting that people in your social sphere are keeping tabs on you, care about you, and want to know what's going on.

Well then you should just ask

 

[OrangeAppled]

"Disappearing" -- leaving social events without warning, not speaking to friends for long periods of time because "no one will notice you're gone". Essentially forgetting that people in your social sphere are keeping tabs on you, care about you, and want to know what's going on. Also forgetting that they have social obligations because of that. (It's frustrating to put effort into a relationship with someone, that involves social group time, to have none of that effort reciprocated.)

Note: this is not all social-lasts, nor is it social-lasts all the time.

I'm guilty of a lot of this...but I genuinely think no one cares. People seem obligated to say they missed you, but it's hard to tell when it's genuine or just some stock line.

But I don't do the flaking on one-on-one stuff. I rarely even do that for group stuff, although I may make a cameo & then leave. I generally just turn things down from the get-go, unless there's a possibility to meet a potential romantic partner. And food &/or alcohol.

Yeah, I think there's definitely a dose of introversion, and also maybe Fi vs Fe to a degree, in what senza describes. For me so-dom goes beyond social pleasantries / 'politeness'. I knew all of the social dynamics / interplay at work, what would rock the boat vs not, and paid attention to that, or knew how to navigate without making myself the black sheep, but I also kept to myself the bulk of the time and would scurry out of work without acknowledging anyone maybe half the time, unless someone caught my eye as I was leaving or I was feeling extra friendly.

I pick up on some of this, but I either don't care or don't know how to navigate a lot of it. Even if I try & mimic others, it doesn't feel as simple as it looks & it's hard for me to grasp what I did wrong. I end up a black sheep, then.

Instincts are just primal urges. They don't amount to skill. They subvert the rational thought necessary to plan. It's to be expected that, through trial and error, people gain more skills to complement, subdue, and serve their instincts though. The point is that just because someone wants something doesn't mean they're good at getting it.

This is what makes it confusing to figure out your type or that of others.

I really don't feel a skill in any of these areas, but so is my obvious blindspot.

 

[Forever_Jung]

"Disappearing" -- leaving social events without warning, not speaking to friends for long periods of time because "no one will notice you're gone". Essentially forgetting that people in your social sphere are keeping tabs on you, care about you, and want to know what's going on. Also forgetting that they have social obligations because of that. (It's frustrating to put effort into a relationship with someone, that involves social group time, to have none of that effort reciprocated.)

Note: this is not all social-lasts, nor is it social-lasts all the time.

As far as I can tell, nobody will care if I leave the event. My 7w6 so/sx friend will invite me to a party where I don't know anyone, basically ignore me the entire night (beyond the occasional: yo Jeremy, having a good time?), and then when I leave chews me out the next day for "ditching" her.

That being said, I tend to take "no one will notice my absence" thing way too far. Like I was supposed to go see the Black Keys a while ago with a few friends, and I dropped out because the idea of being at a noisy/moshy concert freaked me out, and when they got upset, I just said: there's still time to invite one of your other friends, I'll give away my tickets for free. I didn't think they would care, and it ended up being this major conflict. I felt bad once I figured out their point of view, but honestly didn't realize I was being hurtful.

 

[cascadeco]

I pick up on some of this, but I either don't care or don't know how to navigate a lot of it. Even if I try & mimic others, it doesn't feel as simple as it looks & it's hard for me to grasp what I did wrong. I end up a black sheep, then.

Yeah, I can see that. Tbh, it's not that I'm consciously obsessed about it/ prioritizing it, it's just what I naturally notice/ observe/ pick up on. So for me it doesn't take any energy, seeing these patterns and social/group dynamics, interplay between people, power stuff, observing and seeing it in action. Doesn't mean I actually care for it or like it or automatically 'fit in', because I don't, or I don't care to, or it often doesn't line up with who *I* am. But yeah, I can typically avoid sticking out like a sore thumb, like at work for example, where this is most evident as it's for me always been 'just a job' so I know how to be viewed as a good employee in a given company, due to the so-dom stuff I believe. Anyway I suppose that's why it would be my dominant...I don't have to focus to notice it. So, takes little to no 'effort' in that sense.

 

[EcK]

And treacherous, dont forget treacherous

 

[mcgooglian]

I'm sp/sx and I recently had a coworker say that I was really good at being social because I was comfortable with people and good at getting them to laugh and my response was just "Because I get paid to be."

 

[Tomb1]

for 'touch and go' social interactions advantage goes to so/sx imo...able to form strong connections rather quick given their heightened antennae for the interpersonal dynamics between others...more diffusive than sx/so but not as insatiable. still haven't seen a so/sp or sp/so politician win a presidential debate in the public's eye just off a 'moment'...30 second exchange with an audience member was all Clinton needed in contrast to. dole looked like a fish outta water. that's where the particular social intelligence comes in for so/sx...in general socializing pertains to extroversion but so/sx rounds out extroversion with a degree finesse lacking in the other stacks. so/sx over sx/so since sx/so types are much pickier about who they focus their energy on. That ain't to say so/sx types don't mess up a lot...they do. on the inverse since they have an easier to identify with quality for the public they get more get-outta-jail-free cards...